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Offseason, 2017-2018

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The_Hater
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Re: Offseason, 2017-2018 

Post#561 » by The_Hater » Tue Mar 13, 2018 2:47 pm

I_Like_Dirt wrote:
Schad wrote:Think there might be more to it. Boras has overplayed his hand in a big way previously (with Kendrys Morales, notably), but in an offseason where the owners mysteriously decided en masse to demonstrate financial restraint, I can't help but wonder if it's coincidental that they exercised the most restraint with the clients of the biggest thorn in their sides.

And before anyone suggests that's a conspiracy theory, I'd remind them that the owners have had to pay damages for collusion four times.


Yeah, I've seen enough for me to believe the league is out against Boras. When you factor in owners' previous actions - i.e. they totally overspend every single time unless they collude - and the fact that basically everything is breaking against Boras all at the same time, there's just too much smoke for there not to be fire.

And I don't see it as an outlandish conspiracy theory. Nothing has changed except for a rather dramatic shift in spending. As much as I understand wanting to believe that every single team smartened up at the same time, that's just not believable to me at all given a lot of teams are passing by players who would actually help them win on reasonable contracts. And really, there is no disincentive for owners not to collude. If they're caught, the punishment isn't going to outweigh the potential (or maybe even actual) rewards. They pay a fine and stop doing it for a bit (or try to keep it on the dl a bit) then try again later.


Hosmer is a Boris client, so that might hurt the anti-Boris theory.

It’s more likely that Boros was just being Boros and asking for contracts that were way out of whack with the 2018 market.
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Re: Offseason, 2017-2018 

Post#562 » by polo007 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:36 pm

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Re: Offseason, 2017-2018 

Post#563 » by I_Like_Dirt » Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:38 pm

The_Hater wrote:Hosmer is a Boris client, so that might hurt the anti-Boris theory.

It’s more likely that Boros was just being Boros and asking for contracts that were way out of whack with the 2018 market.


Entirely possible. More likely? I'm not so sure. I mean, yeah, I'm sure Boras was asking for more than the market, but baseball owners have proven themselves a rather predictable breed in a bad way.

Beyond that, if the argument is that the market didn't offer such contracts, then all this talk of amazing contracts he turned down wouldn't exist. And it's highly unlikely that one major offer comes in and then disappears and no others come in repeatedly. Heck, even with Hosmer, the total amount of bidders was kinda extremely low.

Is it possible that 95% of MLB teams wised up all at the same time without co-ordinating with one another? Absolutely. Is it likely? I'm not so sure it's as likely as you suggest.
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Re: Offseason, 2017-2018 

Post#564 » by The_Hater » Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:41 pm

I_Like_Dirt wrote:
The_Hater wrote:Hosmer is a Boris client, so that might hurt the anti-Boris theory.

It’s more likely that Boros was just being Boros and asking for contracts that were way out of whack with the 2018 market.


Entirely possible. More likely? I'm not so sure. I mean, yeah, I'm sure Boras was asking for more than the market, but baseball owners have proven themselves a rather predictable breed in a bad way.

Beyond that, if the argument is that the market didn't offer such contracts, then all this talk of amazing contracts he turned down wouldn't exist. And it's highly unlikely that one major offer comes in and then disappears and no others come in repeatedly. Heck, even with Hosmer, the total amount of bidders was kinda extremely low.

Is it possible that 95% of MLB teams wised up all at the same time without co-ordinating with one another? Absolutely. Is it likely? I'm not so sure it's as likely as you suggest.


Don’t you like how spell check gave the wrong auto correct for Boras twice and then I spelled it wrong on my own once?
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Re: Offseason, 2017-2018 

Post#565 » by polo007 » Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:47 pm

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Re: Offseason, 2017-2018 

Post#566 » by Natural11 » Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:39 pm

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I'm a little surprised that Lind can't even get a minimum contract from a team after coming off a .303/.362 season. I know that he's a defensive liability, but there are a whole lot of overpaid, under-producing DH's in the AL.
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Re: Offseason, 2017-2018 

Post#567 » by The_Hater » Thu Mar 15, 2018 3:00 pm

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I'm a little surprised that Lind can't even get a minimum contract from a team after coming off a .303/.362 season. I know that he's a defensive liability, but there are a whole lot of overpaid, under-producing DH's in the AL.


Just like he usually does, he destroyed RHP last season. Platooning him with Pearce as our DH would have been ideal if the Morales signing never happened.
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Re: Offseason, 2017-2018 

Post#568 » by polo007 » Fri Mar 16, 2018 9:51 pm

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Re: Offseason, 2017-2018 

Post#569 » by Schad » Fri Mar 16, 2018 11:11 pm

Now that's interesting. Altuve is a Boras client, and would have been a FA after 2019, when his (very cheap) contract ended. The new deal will cover his age 30-34 seasons...either Altuve really wanted to stay in Houston, or Boras thinks that the market shift this offseason is going to be a long-term trend, because that's light in either years or dollars otherwise compared to what I'd have expected him to gun for.
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Re: Offseason, 2017-2018 

Post#570 » by Kinger95 » Tue Mar 20, 2018 5:19 am

Turner just broke his wrist. Anyone think the dodgers would panic and trade for Donaldson and give us beuhler and more potentially? It’s not like they have to worry about the money they could always keep him if they wanted to . And also they’ve got a lot invested into this season as far as payroll so to have a big hole at 3rd for a significant chunk of the season isn’t ideal when you’ve got a 200 million dollar payroll and some -2 WAR guy making 500k playing 3rd. I guess it all depends on how bad to injury is and his recovery timeline but just a thought
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Re: Offseason, 2017-2018 

Post#571 » by dagger » Tue Mar 20, 2018 10:27 pm

Sounds like Alex Cobb is going to sign a bargain deal with the Orioles..
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Re: Offseason, 2017-2018 

Post#572 » by Lateral Quicks » Tue Mar 20, 2018 11:08 pm

Schad wrote:Now that's interesting. Altuve is a Boras client, and would have been a FA after 2019, when his (very cheap) contract ended. The new deal will cover his age 30-34 seasons...either Altuve really wanted to stay in Houston, or Boras thinks that the market shift this offseason is going to be a long-term trend, because that's light in either years or dollars otherwise compared to what I'd have expected him to gun for.


I dunno, $30M AAV is pretty darn good. He could have held out for more term, but the AAV wouldn't have been that high. Apparently $21M of the deal comes in signing bonuses that he gets over 2018-2019, plus there are bonuses tied to the MVP ranking built in.

I'd call it a fair deal for both sides.
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Re: Offseason, 2017-2018 

Post#573 » by polo007 » Tue Mar 20, 2018 11:22 pm

dagger wrote:Sounds like Alex Cobb is going to sign a bargain deal with the Orioles..

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Re: Offseason, 2017-2018 

Post#574 » by Lateral Quicks » Wed Mar 21, 2018 12:06 am

polo007 wrote:
dagger wrote:Sounds like Alex Cobb is going to sign a bargain deal with the Orioles..


That's a lot for a guy who's pitched more than 170 innings only once, and has a K rate in the mid 6s the last two years. Jays were wise to stay away IMO.
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Re: Offseason, 2017-2018 

Post#575 » by So_Fresh » Wed Mar 21, 2018 12:12 am

Lateral Quicks wrote:
polo007 wrote:
dagger wrote:Sounds like Alex Cobb is going to sign a bargain deal with the Orioles..


That's a lot for a guy who's pitched more than 170 innings only once, and has a K rate in the mid 6s the last two years. Jays were wise to stay away IMO.


Yes they were. Orioles overpaid.
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Re: Offseason, 2017-2018 

Post#576 » by Schad » Wed Mar 21, 2018 12:48 am

Yeah, that's only a bargain if they thought they were getting Ty.

The Orioles have made some truly terrible choices in the mid-tier pitching market in recent years. This is probably another.
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