Jays Acquire Aledmys Diaz from Cardinals for JB Woodman

[North_of_Border]

Jays need to bring back one of either Goins or Barney. They both are clones of each other, but every team can use a player like that off the bench.


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[bluerap23]

Jays need to bring back one of either Goins or Barney. They both are clones of each other, but every team can use a player like that off the bench.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

A team with Tulo and Travis needs two back ups for sure. My guess is that one of them is back (whichever will cost less).

Though they could also just go with internal options like Gift Ngoepe, Lourdes Gurriel or Richard Urena.

[polo007]

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TORONTO – Change for the Toronto Blue Jays this off-season starts with Aledmys Diaz, an acquisition that ushered out the glove-first Ryan Goins by providing at least a part of, if not the entire answer to the club’s needs for an up-the-middle infielder who can make an impact at the plate.

For the Blue Jays, Diaz offers more palatable extended-term protection behind shortstop Troy Tulowitzki and second baseman Devon Travis, both coming off injuries and facing durability questions. During Diaz’s time in Memphis, he sought work at other positions to develop his defence around the diamond, playing nine games at third and six at second, where he was said to look comfortable.

“We’re excited about his versatility, some of his major-league success and reason to believe there’s some bounce back,” Atkins said in a brief interview. “Glad to add him to the organization and hopefully he’s a piece to the solution. But we’ve got a lot of work remaining.”

Signed by the Cardinals for $8 million as an international free agent in March 2014 (he worked out for the Blue Jays before signing with St. Louis), Diaz will essentially cost the same as the $1.8 million Goins was projected by MLB Trade Rumors to earn in arbitration.

“He’s a part of our solution,” Atkins repeated.

At a payroll of $160 million, the area in which they started last year, that gives Atkins some $24 million to bolster the starting rotation, augment the outfield and deepen the bullpen. All of which is why Diaz is a beginning, but very far from the end.

[Schad]

Signed by the Cardinals for $8 million as an international free agent in March 2014 (he worked out for the Blue Jays before signing with St. Louis), Diaz will essentially cost the same as the $1.8 million Goins was projected by MLB Trade Rumors to earn in arbitration.

Point of order: I don't believe this is the case. Diaz did sign a 4 year, $8m contract, but that ended after 2017. As a result, because he has less than two years of service time, he reverts back to being a bog-standard pre-arb player making the league minimum. And if he is any good, we have his rights through his age 31 season.

[North_of_Border]

Worst scenario Diaz is just as good as Goins. Less glove but more bat. I’ll take that though.

Best case scenario, he is starter material talent off the bench. That’s a steal.

This is the kind of move an early AA woulda made.

[flatjacket1]

Jays need to bring back one of either Goins or Barney. They both are clones of each other, but every team can use a player like that off the bench.

Totally agree. We need a glove first backup/defensive replacement. I'd be happy with Goins or Barney, both serve the same purpose. Having them both last year was a waste of a bench spot, pinch hitting/late inning replacing either for the other was a fairly useless move. In the event Tulo or Travis is out, we could either start Goins/Barney (depending on the pitcher) and PH Diaz in the first important plate appearance, or start Diaz and pull him when we get a lead later in the game. Gives us flexibility.

A team with Tulo and Travis needs two back ups for sure. My guess is that one of them is back (whichever will cost less).

Though they could also just go with internal options like Gift Ngoepe, Lourdes Gurriel or Richard Urena.

All of those internal options have ridiculously bad fielding in the minors (with the exception of Ngoepe who is only slightly worse but near that level, but looks way worse with the bat IMO). Urena has a .944 fielding percentage at SS with 3950 innings played. In a full season (600-700 chances) that is the difference of 15 errors with Goins and 34 errors with Urena. Obviously this projection makes a lot of assumptions but the point is that he is significantly worse. Diaz is already sketchy with the glove and Travis hasn't exactly been plus either. Bringing on another Refsynder type just means we spin the bottle to see who goes in for a defensive replacement.

Goins is a terrible idea as a starter on our team (on other teams it might make sense to see if he develops) but still makes sense when used in the right spots. I'd imagine right now he is shopping himself around to see if anyone wants to let him start and the Jays would likely have an ML offer on the table (likely near the minimum). That's just speculation, but the non-tenders who return usually have a similar set up.

[TooBad]

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Aledmys will likely be a backup middle infielder/primary 2B if Travis isn’t ready to go. 27 years old. Hit .259 with 7 homers in 286 AB last year. JB Woodman was ranked our #28 prospect on Pipeline. Diaz is talented but struggled, Buy-low move with potential upside.

Official:

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good gamble considering sophomore slumps happen to a ton of players.

[Schad]

All of those internal options have ridiculously bad fielding in the minors (with the exception of Ngoepe who is only slightly worse but near that level, but looks way worse with the bat IMO). Urena has a .944 fielding percentage at SS with 3950 innings played. In a full season (600-700 chances) that is the difference of 15 errors with Goins and 34 errors with Urena. Obviously this projection makes a lot of assumptions but the point is that he is significantly worse. Diaz is already sketchy with the glove and Travis hasn't exactly been plus either. Bringing on another Refsynder type just means we spin the bottle to see who goes in for a defensive replacement.

Goins is a terrible idea as a starter on our team (on other teams it might make sense to see if he develops) but still makes sense when used in the right spots. I'd imagine right now he is shopping himself around to see if anyone wants to let him start and the Jays would likely have an ML offer on the table (likely near the minimum). That's just speculation, but the non-tenders who return usually have a similar set up.

Leblebijian is a logical option; he's a very well-regarded defensive utilityman with a bit of pop and a good eye. His contact woes will probably render him a well below average hitter, but perhaps not Goinsian levels of futility.

[Lateral Quicks]

Ryan Goins is a very good bet to provide negative value to the club. At this stage, so is Barney. Paying either $1M+ would very likely prove to be a mistake.

[Skin Blues]

Signed by the Cardinals for $8 million as an international free agent in March 2014 (he worked out for the Blue Jays before signing with St. Louis), Diaz will essentially cost the same as the $1.8 million Goins was projected by MLB Trade Rumors to earn in arbitration.

Point of order: I don't believe this is the case. Diaz did sign a 4 year, $8m contract, but that ended after 2017. As a result, because he has less than two years of service time, he reverts back to being a bog-standard pre-arb player making the league minimum. And if he is any good, we have his rights through his age 31 season.

Diaz made $2M last year and it's a violation of the CBA to reduce his salary by more than 20% from the previous season unless we want to DFA him and try to sign him as a free agent, but he'd get a lot more than $1.6M in that case. So he makes at least $1.6M in 2018 if the front office wants to play hardball with him, or $2M if they play nice and keep him at the same salary. That's preferable to Goins at the same price, though, obviously. We could do with Goins what we did with Smoak a few years ago when he signed for $1M after being non-tendered.

[Schad]

Diaz made $2M last year and it's a violation of the CBA to reduce his salary by more than 20% from the previous season unless we want to DFA him and try to sign him as a free agent, but he'd get a lot more than $1.6M in that case. So he makes at least $1.6M in 2018 if the front office wants to play hardball with him, or $2M if they play nice and keep him at the same salary. That's preferable to Goins at the same price, though, obviously. We could do with Goins what we did with Smoak a few years ago when he signed for $1M after being non-tendered.

Yeah, you're correct; saw him down as auto-renew and forgot that the was a maximum reduction.

On Goins, I think that this is about the end of the line for him as a Jay. His defense, particularly at shortstop, simply isn't good enough to merit carrying the bat, RISP Goins notwithstanding.

[bluerap23]

Any chance this move has something to do with Donaldson? If we trade him at the deadline maybe we give the cards a slight discount.

[flatjacket1]

Leblebijian is a logical option; he's a very well-regarded defensive utilityman with a bit of pop and a good eye. His contact woes will probably render him a well below average hitter, but perhaps not Goinsian levels of futility.

While I agree Leblebijian looks like an average defender and slightly below average hitter, I don't believe he would serve a purpose on the bench.

Like normally you need a fourth OF, backup C and three other players. Diaz is obviously a lock, he is really more of a platoon type option rather than a true "utility" player. Sure he can play many positions but in all likelihood he will end up in the lineup fairly regularly, creating somewhat of a logjam. A Goins/Barney type defense first player gives a lot of flexibility for when we are playing with a lead, and also when a ground ball pitcher is on the bump.

Like I know how great it is to have a slightly more average hitter, but as a backup that isn't as important. Donaldson, in 37 of 113 games last year (32.7% of all games played) had 0 hits, and 48 of his 76 remaining games he had one hit (42.4% of all games played). A backup will still be hitless or relatively ineffective in the vast majority of their games played. If they could manage to get a hit or more in 67.3% of their games they would be a starter (or star even). As we can all remember from last year, we lost several games between backup catchers and Refsynder imploding defensively. A backups goal is to not lose games, not to win them.

I feel like the general consensus in the Toronto fanbase is a backup should hit .300 and be average or better defensively, when in actuality those players start, or make the AS team. 314 of 716 players last year with a cup of coffee had a 0 or negative fWAR value. 0 fWAR is more a commodity than people think, and I still feel like Fangraphs and BR do underestimate defensive value due to contingency tables but that's another argument. People also seem to be under the impression that Goins would have significant playing time if brought back. He'd likely just start the odd game and be a defensive replacement. It's not like Goins pushed Tulo and Travis in front of a bus to gain playing time, I don't understand the consensus hate from the more intelligent half of the fanbase.

I like the flexibility of being able to insert Goins with a 2 run lead in a big game in the 8th inning after Diaz's at bat. Leblebijian is just a worse version of Diaz really, redundant skill set. The only way Diaz or Travis get pulled mid game is for a defensive replacement, you wouldn't pinch hit a marginal upgrade in Tellez and then use a replacement. Why replace Diaz or Travis with Leblebijian?

[Schad]

It comes down to whether you think that Goins is above-average at SS, IMO. If he's not, than you really lose whatever value is ascribed to him as a defensive replacement, and might as well ride with Tulo/Diaz at SS. In that instance having Leblebijian to cover 2B/3B/occasionally SS (effectively taking Barney's role) makes more sense to me, given that he has the superior bat.

I wouldn't turn up my nose at a pure defensive shortstop either, operating under the assumption that Diaz will be starting most of the time owing to injury. But Goins' defensive metrics are mediocre enough that I don't know that I'd ascribe that label to him, no matter how much he hits like a defensive backup, heh.

[Lateral Quicks]

We can't really carry two backup infielders on the major league roster. I mean, we could, but that would mean a seven man pen and not carrying a guy like Pearce or Morales on the bench. It doesn't make sense to me to pay Goins more than the league minimum to sit in AAA ball - he's a guy who posted an atrocious 69 wRC+ last year despite hitting like Babe Ruth with RISP. The gap between Goins and guys like Leblebijian, Ngoepe, or even Urena is likely to be small to non-existent.

[Skin Blues]

I think it's a foregone conclusion that we'll have 2 backup infielders, it's been that way for years since we started relying on fragile guys (Reyes/Tulo/Travis) as starters. Started with Goins/Bonifacio/DeRosa, then Goins/Kawasaki for a couple years, then Goins/Barney for a couple years. With Tulo and Travis, and giving Donaldson a DH day here and there, one of the backups will be in the lineup 90% of the time anyway so we'll need a second guy that can cover MI. Having an offensively competent player like Diaz will make having 2 backup middle infielders a lot more palatable. The nice thing with Leblebijian is that he has options, so we can shuttle him back and forth to Buffalo if necessary, for instance if by some miracle Tulo and Travis are simultaneously showing signs of solid health.

[polo007]

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By any measure, Aledmys Diaz‘s 2017 season was a tough one. He began the year in an extended slump, lost his big-league roster spot by mid-season and continued struggling offensively at triple-A.

As he says, “Everything went wrong last year.”

Just as importantly, with Paul DeJong, Kolten Wong and Matt Carpenter firmly entrenched as starters on the St. Louis infield, there was no clear role for Diaz going forward. So when he spoke with Cardinals decision makers after the season, Diaz made it clear that he’d welcome a trade.

“I just wanted to go to a place where I’d have the chance to play more,” he said at Blue Jays Winter Fest. “That was one thing I told them as soon as I finished the season. (If) they’re not going to give me the opportunity to play every day next season, it’s better for me to be traded.”

“I think that second season is tough for everybody,” Diaz said. “The pitchers start making adjustments. It was a tough second year.”

He returned as a September call-up, but appeared in just eight games down the stretch. To cap off a dismal season, he exited the final game of the year early with a left hamstring strain.

“It was a tough year, but at the same time I learned,” Diaz said. “Hopefully in a new organization I’ll have the chance to play.”

That’s where it gets complicated. The Blue Jays say that second baseman Devon Travis and shortstop Troy Tulowitzki are progressing as anticipated in their rehab work. And even if there’s an injury, utility player Yangervis Solarte represents an equally versatile option who’s more established as a big-league producer.