Orioles listening on Machado, why not Donaldson?

[North_of_Border]

Orioles have made Machado available and guess who is after him.... The Cardinals

Baltimore is playing smart. Like Josh Donaldson, Machado is also a FA soon. They will deal him and likely do a short rebuild. Jays need to smarten up.

On a side note, Cardinals will play Machado at SS as he has requested. Meaning current star SS DeJong could very likely be in the talk mix.

[MavCarter]

I'm 99.9% sure if they don't trade donaldson before the season starts it's because rogers has their hands tied

[Davey0]

Rogers should be open to the thought. It wont hurt. They should really consider the 50/50 hindsight. Let him walk for free, or get quality asset(s) for him.

Or if they want to re-sign him, who will the bring in to help build the Jays to contenders.

Its an interesting question hopefully for The Blue Jays to consider. Maybe they are doing more than we think? But the thought should be an open discussion for the Blue Jays to think about.

[phillipmike]

Orioles have made Machado available and guess who is after him.... The Cardinals

Baltimore is playing smart. Like Josh Donaldson, Machado is also a FA soon. They will deal him and likely do a short rebuild. Jays need to smarten up.

On a side note, Cardinals will play Machado at SS as he has requested. Meaning current star SS DeJong could very likely be in the talk mix.

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Just because it doesnt get to the media doesnt mean it isnt happening. Judging the Jays FO on what you perceive they are and are not doing based on your limited knowledge seems very careless.

[Tanner]

Orioles have made Machado available and guess who is after him.... The Cardinals

Baltimore is playing smart. Like Josh Donaldson, Machado is also a FA soon. They will deal him and likely do a short rebuild. Jays need to smarten up.

On a side note, Cardinals will play Machado at SS as he has requested. Meaning current star SS DeJong could very likely be in the talk mix.

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Just because it doesnt get to the media doesnt mean it isnt happening. Judging the Jays FO on what you perceive they are and are not doing based on your limited knowledge seems very careless.

Exactly.

Then there is this tweet that just popped up....

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Some Jays fans have become insufferable with their criticism of the front office. They are not rebuilding because of ownership. It's pretty cut and dry. Look at Shapiro's track record in Cleveland. He went for it and rebuilt depending on the circumstances, so why would he suddenly become delusional about win curves now? He was sabermetric before the thing became popular in MLB front offices. He is making the best out of the situation he was given; 'rebuild' without rebuilding. I personally don't mind that approach because as a fan I don't want to sit through five years of **** baseball when it's possible to rebuild on the fly while staying reasonably competitive, but it's not like he's purposely trying to fool fans. He knows what this team is, and what their ceiling is. He just has to work around the orders he has been given.

[I_Like_Dirt]

Literally nobody has mentioned the Jays' FO in this thread except to defend them against non-existent attacks. The quoted post supposedly questioning Shapiro doesn't specifically mention the FO over ownership orders. There is absolutely no disagreement in this thread that this is an ownership thing. I'm not sure why the push to try to create such a reality.

[phillipmike]

Some Jays fans have become insufferable with their criticism of the front office.

They are not rebuilding because of ownership. It's pretty cut and dry. Look at Shapiro's track record in Cleveland. He went for it and rebuilt depending on the circumstances, so why would he suddenly become delusional about win curves now? He was sabermetric before the thing became popular in MLB front offices. He is making the best out of the situation he was given; 'rebuild' without rebuilding.He knows what this team is, and what their ceiling is. He just has to work around the orders he has been given.

Agreed. We all have bosses and they tell you want to do. Complete their vision or they will find someone who does. Rogers is likely selling the Jays sometime soon, you get more money in a sale when you are winning and have good players.

The last wildcard spot over the years have gone from 93 wins, 92, 88, 86, 89 and 85 wins. Its trending down and much more attainable.

Fans were dying for playoffs for 20 years and now they are going to turn their nose up at a wildcard spot? They criticized Alex in 2014 for not making a move at the deadline for a wild card spot. Ill take a run at 85-88 wins for a wildcard spot! Baltimore, Tampa, KC, Chicago, Detroit, and Oakland are all worse. The Jays will be battling the Twins, Angels, Mariners, and Rangers for a playoff spot (personally dont see the Rangers as a threat and im not a believer in the Twins). Teams who had 85, 80, 78 and 78 wins last season. I welcome those odds.

I personally don't mind that approach because as a fan I don't want to sit through five years of **** baseball when it's possible to rebuild on the fly while staying reasonably competitive, but it's not like he's purposely trying to fool fans.

Baltimore has one of the worst farms in the league with high price vets and their best player ready to leave in a year - their owner hasnt signed an IFA in the last 2 years on principle and their GM wanted out. Jays have no contract commitments past 2020, and a top 10 farm depending who you ask (have the best two prospects to come through their system at the same time since Delgado and Green). Baltimore needs to sell Machado - they Jays dont need to sell anyone. They are already a Vlad, Bo and Alford ahead of Baltimore. Not to mention Warmoth and Pearson along with potentially MLB ready guys like Urena, Jansen, Borucki, and Pannone in 2018.

[Tanner]

Literally nobody has mentioned the Jays' FO in this thread except to defend them against non-existent attacks. The quoted post supposedly questioning Shapiro doesn't specifically mention the FO over ownership orders. There is absolutely no disagreement in this thread that this is an ownership thing. I'm not sure why the push to try to create such a reality.

I wasn't referring to anyone in particular, just some fans in general (mostly the vocal ones on social media). However the title of this thread combined with "the Jays need to smarten up" quote seems to imply that there is a choice in the matter for this front office. There isn't. They might be able to sell a JD trade if some team knocks their socks off with an offer, but chances are they have been told to keep everyone and try to contend in 2018. If that fails, then they will trade players in July. You can argue whether one direction is better than the other, but ultimately, it's out of the front office's control.

[phillipmike]

I just dont know what people expect is happening or how trade offers materialize. If a team calls and asks about Donaldson do you think Atkins is going to plug his ears, scream "im not listening, im not listening" and not listen to the offer or just hang up when he hears "Josh Donalds...?" They dont need to actively shop him but if the right offer is made then they will deal him. Same goes for anyone on this team even Vladdy and Bo.

Just like when AA was trading for Donaldson. Lawrie wasnt available - he wanted to keep him and play him at 2B but he traded him because the deal was right - he wasnt actively shopping Lawrie but made a deal.

[Schad]

While Shapiro almost definitely isn't the driving force behind this idiocy, it doesn't speak highly to his influence if he, as the head-hunted president and mastermind, has little to no say over the direction of the club. It's extraordinarily difficult to win if the baseball decisions are being made by accountants looking no further than the next quarter.

[MavCarter]

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AKA "Rogers needs to milk every penny they can in the short term"

[polo007]

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[Schad]

With the Ozuna trade, our options are shrinking even further. Sounds like the Cards gave up one of their better pitching prospects, with talk centering around Flaherty (who I really wanted).

[Scott Hall]

I also think Rogers is the devil in this situation...

They want to maintain the great attendance figures and TV ratings especially if they're gonna sell. Treadmilling has
always been fine to them. The Jays need to stock that farm system New York, Boston, LA, Houston, Cubs, etc win by
developing great players the Jays need to do the same thing. I'm so down for a total rebuild go with Osuna, Sanchez,
Vladdy G, Bichette Jr. etc. Then sell off other assets for more high end prospects or young players with upside.

I'm not interested in watching a .500 team or Tulo and Martin stink it up all year. I'm not gonna spend 3 hours a day all
summer watching mediocrity of a directionless team that seems to be handcuffed by the owners. They gotta maximize
this Donaldson asset while they can and not let him walk for nothing like the Raptors did with T-Mac and Bosh or
accept a poo-poo platter for Vince and like the Jays did with Halladay.

It also bothers me they haven't come out and said they're gonna retire Halladays number or put him on the ring of honor
or whatever it's called yet. If they just do some tribute on opening day that's not enough and disgraceful.

Also what's with Atkins/Shapiro's obsession with Jay Bruce?

[Tanner]

With the Ozuna trade, our options are shrinking even further. Sounds like the Cards gave up one of their better pitching prospects, with talk centering around Flaherty (who I really wanted).

The Marlins got hosed in that deal. Not sure if that's a sign of what type of offers the Jays are getting for JD, or just Miami incompetence.

[Schad]

The Marlins got hosed in that deal. Not sure if that's a sign of what type of offers the Jays are getting for JD, or just Miami incompetence.

I'd imagine it's a generous helping of incompetence from the Marlins, but it could also be that teams didn't want to pay a big price for Ozuna, whose 2017 season features a number of red flags as a possible outlier. No doubt he's a solid player, but teams probably wouldn't be grading him as a star on that one year of production.

The Marlins also might've prioritized guys who are fairly close (both Alcantara and Gallen are likely to see major league time in 2018, and it's not unthinkable that Sierra will, as well), given that they're going to want to have something to thrill the 8-10 fans that will show up each night.

[zilby]

The Marlins got hosed in that deal. Not sure if that's a sign of what type of offers the Jays are getting for JD, or just Miami incompetence.

I'd imagine it's a generous helping of incompetence from the Marlins, but it could also be that teams didn't want to pay a big price for Ozuna, whose 2017 season features a number of red flags as a possible outlier. No doubt he's a solid player, but teams probably wouldn't be grading him as a star on that one year of production.

The Marlins also might've prioritized guys who are fairly close (both Alcantara and Gallen are likely to see major league time in 2018, and it's not unthinkable that Sierra will, as well), given that they're going to want to have something to thrill the 8-10 fans that will show up each night.

Ozuna certainly made strides last season, but his 2016 campaign wasn't anything to dismiss either. Still an all-star and hit for decent power. The Marlins got what they did because they were going to have to pay him in his second and third arbitration years, and very obviously showed no willingness to do so. The minute you know somebody is selling, the price is always going to be less than fair value. It's when a team wants a player so bad that they overpay you often see the selling team win, but the Marlins have been bleeding their cards for like three months now.

Yelich and Realmuto are also probably going to be on the market, they might be solid buy candidates if the Marlins make them openly available. JT makes sense if we can find a way to unload Russ' contract, and Yelich makes sense anyhow since we need MLB talent in the field. I wouldn't be on board with it since we need to be tanking and not trading prospects right now, but buying low is the name of Shatkins' game.

[The_Hater]

Orioles have made Machado available and guess who is after him.... The Cardinals

Baltimore is playing smart. Like Josh Donaldson, Machado is also a FA soon. They will deal him and likely do a short rebuild. Jays need to smarten up.

On a side note, Cardinals will play Machado at SS as he has requested. Meaning current star SS DeJong could very likely be in the talk mix.

Add in the respective ages of both players and trading JD makes WAAAAY more sense than trading Machado. But it seems that management is being included by higher powers.

[The_Hater]

While Shapiro almost definitely isn't the driving force behind this idiocy, it doesn't speak highly to his influence if he, as the head-hunted president and mastermind, has little to no say over the direction of the club. It's extraordinarily difficult to win if the baseball decisions are being made by accountants looking no further than the next quarter.

Or it might have been a compromise of sorts. Shapiro delaying a rebuild for one additional year at the behest of ownership but getting full autonomy in return 12 months from now.

[So_Fresh]

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What's your asking price for Donaldson? Who would want in return.