Jays Acquire Yangervis Solarte

[Greatness]

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[polo007]

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[Schad]

Solarte's not a great player, but he's on a nice contract...three years left, with a minimal buyout on years two and three if he declines.

Looks like we gave up Edward Olivares. We could live to regret that, given how much he came on last year.

[zilby]

It baffles me that we are trading a prospect of any kind for players who clearly aren't moving the needle any closer to "contending", as our owners would like to do. We are not in that position, no matter how high or low they are ranked on our list.

I have been firmly on the wagon that we need to employ the strategy we used in trading Liriano, where we absorb more of a hit on the payroll on other teams in exchange for better prospects. We covered Frankie's salary and took on Nori Aoki to get Teoscar, and the early results on that one were pretty decent. That would put us a hell of a lot closer to contending than whatever this is.

If this ends up being protection in the event of a Donaldson trade, I understand that, but as far as the org has said, that's not happening, so what's really the point of making this trade?

[polo007]

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[dagger]

Solarte's not a great player, but he's on a nice contract...three years left, with a minimal buyout on years two and three if he declines.

Looks like we gave up Edward Olivares. We could live to regret that, given how much he came on last year.

My thoughts exactly. And while Solarte's deal is nice, it's basically another $4m for a potential backup or so-so starter out of the small acquisition budget the team has for a player who won't be around in a couple of years. In both the Diaz and Solarte trades, no major league salary went out, so that's about $6.15m less to spend on outfielders, relievers or a fifth starter.

We are, however, making great strides at cornering the market on Latin outfielders with hard to pronounce first names

[Schad]

Bet you five And1s that Solarte/Diaz end up seeing a fair bit of time in the outfield, actually.

[Wo1verine]

Bet you five And1s that Solarte/Diaz end up seeing a fair bit of time in the outfield, actually.

Beats signing Bruce or Cain long-term.

[Schad]

Bet you five And1s that Solarte/Diaz end up seeing a fair bit of time in the outfield, actually.

Beats signing Bruce or Cain long-term.

Agreed. I just don't like giving up prospects with real upside in order to play average-ish players out of position so that we can pretend to chase the playoffs. There's a good chance Olivares don't become anything spectacular, but he has serious tools if the power is real.

[polo007]

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TORONTO – The roster-building element driven home by the success of teams like the Houston Astros, Los Angeles Dodgers and Cleveland Indians is that beyond top-shelf talent and depth; there’s simply no substitute for versatile, flexible players. Inevitably, over the course of 162 games, the contingency plans of clubs get tested, and having a backup worthy of at-bats for every position is impossible. That’s why having solid contributors who can move all over the diamond can be a major difference-maker.

To that end, the Toronto Blue Jays added a layer of protection they lacked during an injury-filled 2017 with Saturday’s acquisition of infielder Yangervis Solarte from the San Diego Padres, for outfield prospect Edward Olivares and right-hander Jared Carkuff. Along with the November pickup of shortstop Aledmys Diaz, they have now added two middle-of-the-diamond players with some offensive game to support one of the most vulnerable areas of their roster.

While neither is quite at the level of a Marwin Gonzalez, Chris Taylor or Jose Ramirez, both offer significant upgrades from Ryan Goins and Darwin Barney, two utilitymen whose defence was no longer elite enough to compensate for the lack of thump in their bats. Having spent last summer looking like sailors on a leaky rowboat scrambling to plug all the holes – remember Josh Donaldson at shortstop and starts for Russell Martin and Jose Bautista at third base? – manager John Gibbons and his coaching staff now have real options to choose from.

“What we’re looking for, and will continue to look for, are options and versatile options and guys that can do multiple things, and guys that can typically play in the middle of the diamond can do more than that,” general manager Ross Atkins said on a conference call. “Both (Solarte and Diaz) will complement each other well.”

The relative low cost for Solarte keeps alive the possibility of a pricier free agent add – they’ve inquired to some degree about Lorenzo Cain, Jarrod Dyson, Lance Lynn and Alex Cobb – although they could still make more trades, as well, believing their farm system still has plenty to offer in multiple ways.

“We could go several directions,” said Atkins. “We feel like we have one of the better systems in baseball, it’s not the best, we still have work to do, we feel that we’re probably in the top third, but we have plenty of depth to protect us throughout the major-league season, to provide options for us throughout the major-league season and to trade from. Whether that’s a bigger deal or a smaller deal, we’ll see, but we are now in a position where we have that option.”

[So_Fresh]

I like this trade. Gives us insurance in case of injury and Solarte can play multiple positions. He had 18 hrs last year with a WAR of 1.1 and career OPS of .792

Our bench is definately better with Diaz and Solarte now. Just go out there and get us a RF and SP and we should be good.

[North_of_Border]

Good trade. Jays basically replaced Barney/Goins duo with Solarte/Diaz. Thats a HUGE upgrade offensively and still acceptable defensively. No more automatic outs at the plate. These two could start on some teams if they play to their potential.

As for Olivares. Well you gotta give some to get some. That was just the price. Plus you cant hoard prospects for ever. There just isent enough room on the roster for all of them. At some point you gotta move some. Here the Jays moved a low ranking prospect. Thats just the price here. He will be replaced. I dont see how the Jays can make trades without giving up even a low prospect like this. Its part of the business. Even if he becomes a decent MLB player, its just part of the business. Though 97% chance he is nothing special. Thats how prospects work.

[The_Hater]

As soon as Travis gets healthy and is playing well, I would ship him out for prospects. Although I have no idea how far his value has tanked at this point.

[dagger]

There just isent enough room on the roster for all of them. At some point you gotta move some. Here the Jays moved a low ranking prospect. Thats just the price here. He will be replaced. I dont see how the Jays can make trades without giving up even a low prospect like this.

Though 97% chance he is nothing special. Thats how prospects work.

No, that's not how prospects work. You don't have just one outfield prospect for one outfield position, one second base prospect for one second base position. You need a deep system to produce enough good outfielders to fill four outfield spots - three starters and one backup - well. You need many, many good pitching prospects to fill a starting staff. It's NEVER a question of having "enough room on the roster for all of them." It doesn't work like that. You let multiple candidates fight it out to see who gets to the majors with the Jays, or another team via trade.

Also, the 18th best prospect in a good farm system is not chopped liver. Olivares was only the second highest outfielder in our top 30. Last I looked, we had two wide open outfield slots at the major league level, plus Kevin Pillar might have topped out. As for your observation that Olivares has a 97% chance of being nothing special, well, that's your bias. Mine would be that if you trade the 18th best prospect on a team heading into a rebuild, it would be better to bundle him with a veteran (salary dump) or other prospects and get a controllable player closer to the majors, one who will fill a starting need immediately or within a year or two, which Solarte most definitely will not. My pitch would have been to bundle a couple of better prospects plus Olivares for someone like Chris Yellich. That would have been a good use of prospects as part of a rebuild strategy. The Diaz trade was a lot closer to my taste - a controllable player for a lesser prospect than Olivares.

There also is a right time to start burning prospect capital, and that's when you have too much (which the Jays do not), or when your rebuild is more advanced and you can land a controllable major leaguer to move it forward even faster. That's my bias and I'm sticking to it.

From Rosenthal

— The San Diego Padres are intrigued by the power-speed combination of outfielder Edward Olivares, whom they acquired from the Toronto Blue Jays on Saturday for infielder Yangervis Solarte. Olivares, 21, needs to improve his plate discipline, but evaluators view him as a potential five-tool center fielder. The Padres also acquired reliever Jared Carkuff, 24, in the deal.

[Lateral Quicks]

It baffles me that we are trading a prospect of any kind for players who clearly aren't moving the needle any closer to "contending", as our owners would like to do. We are not in that position, no matter how high or low they are ranked on our list.

I have been firmly on the wagon that we need to employ the strategy we used in trading Liriano, where we absorb more of a hit on the payroll on other teams in exchange for better prospects. We covered Frankie's salary and took on Nori Aoki to get Teoscar, and the early results on that one were pretty decent. That would put us a hell of a lot closer to contending than whatever this is.

If this ends up being protection in the event of a Donaldson trade, I understand that, but as far as the org has said, that's not happening, so what's really the point of making this trade?

I don't think we can say this move doesn't move the needle closer. An upgrade from a -1 WAR player to a +1 or +2 WAR player is significant. I agree it's probably not enough, but it's definitely a significant improvement.

[Lateral Quicks]

Olivares is likely 3 years away, if he makes it at all. For a guy with one good year on the books in low A ball, and having scuffled badly in his cup of coffee at Dunedin, three years of Solarte on a decent deal is a pretty good return. Olivares does have nice tools and we may regret it down the road, but this seems like a pretty nice risk/reward.

Outfield depth is the last concern I have for this team. Hernadez and Alford are arguably ready now, and if healthy Pompey should be able to help as well (I know, not everyone agrees on Pompey).

[Tanner]

There also is a right time to start burning prospect capital, and that's when you have too much (which the Jays do not), or when your rebuild is more advanced and you can land a controllable major leaguer to move it forward even faster. That's my bias and I'm sticking to it.

That's too simplistic of a view. Olivares has to be put on the 40 man roster next winter or he's exposed in the rule 5 draft. He will probably spend the year in A+, and even in his breakout season in 2017 had contact issues and couldn't draw walks. There are question marks there, as much as there is tools. The Jays, just by sheer quantity of prospects, will have to work around the 40 man numbers game over the next few years since they rarely give up prospects in trades. They've been lucky not to lose anyone yet, but it will happen. The Yankees over the past few years have lost prospects in the rule 5 or had to trade them away in lateral moves or for big league help. If you think the Jays can keep every single prospect from now until their next competitive window, you're in for a shock.

I like this trade. Solarte has a great contract and is a strong surplus value candidate. He fills many positions, and could start at 2B or 3B without hurting the team. That's how depth is created. The difference between Barney/Goins/Ref in 2017 and Diaz/Solarte's 2018 projections is probably around 2-3 wins. It's a substantial improvement. Solarte in particular is coming off a season where he had an unusually low BABIP against lhp and could see an improvement moving away from Petco. I think there is real 2 War potential here, which may not be a huge difference maker, but for $4m, that's a pretty sizable win increase.

This front office was adding prospects when they were buyers at the deadline two years ago. They value the farm system. They obviously felt Olivares was worth losing for Solarte. They won't guess right on all prospects, but boom or bust types like him are very high risk. I'd expect the Jays to get the better end of this deal when all is said and done, but if Olivares turns into something, then take it in the chin and move on. People complain that the team doesn't have enough top level prospects, but then complain when they lose a risky lower level one for a solid Mlb'er.

[Schad]

It's a significant improvement if Travis/Tulo miss most of the season again, sure, or Donaldson goes down for a long period of time. But if we're battling that sort of injury problem again it's likely that we're not particularly good anyway.

As it stands, we're at about $20m in payroll space, assuming we have $165m to spend. A veteran backup catcher would knock a couple mil off that, leaving us with enough for an OF of some significance, or a starter, but not both. Hence my suspicion that we'll sign a starter, and go into 2018 hoping either Hernandez blossoms or Solarte can play some OF.

[TheShocker]

We aren't getting Yelich for any collection of prospects that doesn't include Bichette or Vlady.

Solarte is a solid INF option. Olivares isn't a great prospect. Might end up being a decent piece some day but the odds are he won't. We should receive good surplus value on the Solarte contract. With Tulo being locked in and Travis having high upside if healthy this was a smart play by Atkins. Donaldson will need time off as well.

Now go and sign Cain to be our RF.

[Schad]

There also is a right time to start burning prospect capital, and that's when you have too much (which the Jays do not), or when your rebuild is more advanced and you can land a controllable major leaguer to move it forward even faster. That's my bias and I'm sticking to it.

That's too simplistic of a view. Olivares has to be put on the 40 man roster next winter or he's exposed in the rule 5 draft. He will probably spend the year in A+, and even in his breakout season in 2017 had contact issues and couldn't draw walks. There are question marks there, as much as there is tools. The Jays, just by sheer quantity of prospects, will have to work around the 40 man numbers game over the next few years since they rarely give up prospects in trades. They've been lucky not to lose anyone yet, but it will happen. The Yankees over the past few years have lost prospects in the rule 5 or had to trade them away in lateral moves or for big league help. If you think the Jays can keep every single prospect from now until their next competitive window, you're in for a shock.

This is absolutely true, but if we're retooling during/after 2018 (which seems likely) we're going to have some roster spots freed up by virtue of players on the 40-man replacing departing veterans.