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Jays Acquire Yangervis Solarte

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Re: Jays Acquire Yangervis Solarte 

Post#41 » by Schad » Tue Jan 9, 2018 3:30 am

Tanner wrote:Solarte's value is only peak now if you expect his offence to decline. Projections have him bouncing back offensively (105 wrc+ projection), likely due to the low BABIP in 2017. You also have to consider that as long as the Jays have JD, and he's healthy, the bulk of Solarte's playing time will be at 2b and SS, where (as long as he's at least passable defensively) will make him a more valuable player overall. He will probably get reps at 3b and the outfield as well, but he was acquired due to the brittleness of the middle infield, and that's likely where he'll get a lot of the playing time.


I do expect his offense to decline from peak/remain closer to his 2017 level than previous. His BABIP is at least partially explained by the fact that he made far weaker contact last year:

https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/yangervis-solarte-and-the-blue-jays-attempt-to-thread-the-needle/

He's also a lower-than-average BABIP player in general, in part because he's one of the most popup-prone hitters in baseball.

You also have to consider asset value. The reason signing Estrada for one more year made sense as opposed to trading him for anything with a pulse last July was because the team gets the extra year of production and (if things go south again next trade deadline) possibly an asset with higher trade value this time around. The front office has done a very good job, for the most part, in acquiring more value than giving out. Whether it was the original Liriano trade, to the follow up one, to the Smith trade, Diaz trade, etc. It's not necessarily about lining everyone up to fit a time line, it's about getting as much value as possible into the organization.


I agree that we've acquired more value than we have sent out. That will regrettably change if and when we lose multiple valuable players for next to nothing after this season. Shapiro and Atkins have done an admirable job of working the margins, but it's going to take more than that.

I just don't see the reasoning behind obsessing over every prospect in the system. Some will have to be moved even if the team begins to rebuild. Some might be overvalued (in the eyes of the front office) and will be moved at perceived peak value. They'll trade one eventually, guess wrong, and regret it. All of this is pretty normal. You can't hoard every single prospect in the system. Eventually some will have to be moved for big league help, and in this case, the Jays are getting three very inexpensive years out of a useful player who has more value than Olivares now, and likely more a year or two from now depending on how he does.


Not every prospect, no. I wasn't in the least concerned about shipping out Woodman for Diaz, as an example. With Olivares, it's the simple fact we don't have a lot of players with his upside. I'd rather that we were acquiring such rather than trading them away for fringe-average infielders.
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Re: Jays Acquire Yangervis Solarte 

Post#42 » by Tanner » Tue Jan 9, 2018 4:37 am

You're right he did make more soft contact and had an increase in IFF% in 2017. Both of those percentages were well worse than his norm, so it's either an aberration or start of a decline, but there are indicators that it could just be a blip. In 2017, he had a 54 wrc+ and .221 babip against lhp, while from 2014-16 he was at 105 wrc+ and .289 babip. He still hit rhp reasonably well even in a down year last season. Also, he had a 107 wrc+ on June 20 and then missed five weeks due to an oblique injury. From time he came back from injury to the end of the season, he was not good at all. Whether he was still suffering through that afterwards is anyone's guess, but regardless, I think a bounce back is a reasonable projection. He's only 30, not ancient. If he reaches his projection offensively and plays the bulk of his time in the middle infield, that's a pretty solid player. It's not quite the upside gamble that Diaz is, but from a pure value standpoint, it looks like a plus. Although this is the evaluation based on what we know today. That can, and probably will, change in the next three years.

As far as trading prospects, I think the front office is trying to eliminate any down time between now and the team's next competitive window. That likely means shooting for 82-85 win true talent rosters for the next few years until the Vlad's and Bo's are ready, but that's going to involve some prospect trading for controllable big league help. They are going to have to guess right on which prospects they trade and which they keep/acquire, but if you're dealing with depth pieces (even ones with some upside), it's a far less risky proposition than trading from the front end of the system (Alford, Pearson types). As long as they keep the good ones, and the ones with a more defined skillset, then the likelihood of creating a roster of good, young, controllable pieces increases.
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Re: Jays Acquire Yangervis Solarte 

Post#43 » by Schad » Tue Jan 9, 2018 5:15 am

Tanner wrote:You're right he did make more soft contact and had an increase in IFF% in 2017. Both of those percentages were well worse than his norm, so it's either an aberration or start of a decline, but there are indicators that it could just be a blip. In 2017, he had a 54 wrc+ and .221 babip against lhp, while from 2014-16 he was at 105 wrc+ and .289 babip. He still hit rhp reasonably well even in a down year last season. Also, he had a 107 wrc+ on June 20 and then missed five weeks due to an oblique injury. From time he came back from injury to the end of the season, he was not good at all. Whether he was still suffering through that afterwards is anyone's guess, but regardless, I think a bounce back is a reasonable projection. He's only 30, not ancient. If he reaches his projection offensively and plays the bulk of his time in the middle infield, that's a pretty solid player. It's not quite the upside gamble that Diaz is, but from a pure value standpoint, it looks like a plus. Although this is the evaluation based on what we know today. That can, and probably will, change in the next three years.


His IF/FB% is always pretty high. 2017 was higher than normal, but he's top 30 in that category from 2014 on. Not a deal-breaker, but it does factor into BABIP expectations.

He's decent enough. Average/marginally below average starter territory, in general. But the value of the versatility he provides is diminished somewhat given that we previously acquired a bat-first middle infielder that we believe can play SS/2B and suggested might be tried at 3B; Diaz has more downside risk, but if we get even moderately good health from Tulo/Travis, Solarte might end up being a 300 PA part-timer.

As far as trading prospects, I think the front office is trying to eliminate any down time between now and the team's next competitive window. That likely means shooting for 82-85 win true talent rosters for the next few years until the Vlad's and Bo's are ready, but that's going to involve some prospect trading for controllable big league help. They are going to have to guess right on which prospects they trade and which they keep/acquire, but if you're dealing with depth pieces (even ones with some upside), it's a far less risky proposition than trading from the front end of the system (Alford, Pearson types). As long as they keep the good ones, and the ones with a more defined skillset, then the likelihood of creating a roster of good, young, controllable pieces increases.


There's almost no chance that we eliminate any down time. In 2019, we're already looking at over $100m on the books, while subtracting our best player and two starting pitchers who were worth 5.5 fWAR in 2017; dragging that to an 80-something win talent level with an outside chance of making the playoffs is going to be one hell of a task. Even our management seems to get that we're not actually good nor getting better...they just cannot change direction until our ownership has wrung every dollar out of the current hype.
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Re: Jays Acquire Yangervis Solarte 

Post#44 » by bluerap23 » Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:55 am

Schad wrote:Bet you five And1s that Solarte/Diaz end up seeing a fair bit of time in the outfield, actually.


I'd take that bet ;)
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