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https://www.theringer.com/mlb/2018/4/9/17214076/jose-bautista-career-appreciation

Definitely a wild ride of a career.

...after he was one of the 30 worst regular position players in MLB history through age 27, he was one of the 30 best position players in MLB history from ages 29-34.

And for all the credit AA got for building the team, nothing helped as much as having Jose break out in 2010. I'm pretty sure he was our lead-off hitter on opening day that year and not because he was expected to be any good. From 15 to 50 HR with a swing adjustment is about as dramatic a transformation as I can think of in MLB.

We never should have fired that man in white. I hope there's a nice run this year and Jose gets Lasik or something and signs for the playoffs, with some Matt Stairsesque homers in there somewhere. That is the dream.

Fairview4Life wrote:We never should have fired that man in white. I hope there's a nice run this year and Jose gets Lasik or something and signs for the playoffs, with some Matt Stairsesque homers in there somewhere. That is the dream.

That one ranks up there in terms of ridiculous conspiracy theories. And there are some absurd ones out there.

do Jose and Edwin go on our Circle of Excellence?

considering who is/isn't on there from the World Series-winning clubs, i think it's an interesting argument

YogiStewart wrote:do Jose and Edwin go on our Circle of Excellence?

considering who is/isn't on there from the World Series-winning clubs, i think it's an interesting argument

Jose will absolutely be on there. He'll sign for a day next winter and have his name put up next opening day or something. Or maybe later in the year. Whenever he thinks he is truly done.

We should really just bring him back to face Darren O'Day one last time.

Fairview4Life wrote:

YogiStewart wrote:do Jose and Edwin go on our Circle of Excellence?

considering who is/isn't on there from the World Series-winning clubs, i think it's an interesting argument

Jose will absolutely be on there. He'll sign for a day next winter and have his name put up next opening day or something. Or maybe later in the year. Whenever he thinks he is truly done.

so most likely 2021?

YogiStewart wrote:do Jose and Edwin go on our Circle of Excellence?

considering who is/isn't on there from the World Series-winning clubs, i think it's an interesting argument

For Bautista it’s not an argument. He’s arguably our best position player, ever.

vaff87 wrote:

YogiStewart wrote:do Jose and Edwin go on our Circle of Excellence?

considering who is/isn't on there from the World Series-winning clubs, i think it's an interesting argument

For Bautista it’s not an argument. He’s arguably our best position player, ever.

curious...should Gruber be on the Level of Excellence?

YogiStewart wrote:

vaff87 wrote:

YogiStewart wrote:do Jose and Edwin go on our Circle of Excellence?

considering who is/isn't on there from the World Series-winning clubs, i think it's an interesting argument

For Bautista it’s not an argument. He’s arguably our best position player, ever.

curious...should Gruber be on the Level of Excellence?

No.

Fairview4Life wrote:We should really just bring him back to face Darren O'Day one last time.

On the day we bring him back for the induction, make O'Day through the ceremonial first pitch. Have Jose lurk behind the mascot, then blammo.

Knowing Jose, I'll leave some suspense as to whether it's the ball getting blammo'd.

Why loup. We need a better lefty.

Personally, I wouldn’t put Loup on the Level of Excellence. Not just yet.

YogiStewart wrote:do Jose and Edwin go on our Circle of Excellence?

considering who is/isn't on there from the World Series-winning clubs, i think it's an interesting argument

Jose is the best hitter in Jays history, how does he not go in the COE?

And Gruber is a definite no. One great season, 2 solid ones and a whole bunch of meh. He was by far the weakest link on the 1992 WS team in the regular season and was even worse in the playoffs.

YogiStewart wrote:do Jose and Edwin go on our Circle of Excellence?

considering who is/isn't on there from the World Series-winning clubs, i think it's an interesting argument

No doubt for Jose. I would put EE on there too.

Yeah, Jose goes on, but it's a weird list if you think about it. Focusing on hitters for the time being, you have to decide that Bell and Carter got on for specific things, the first MVP for Bell, and Carter's WS antics, because otherwise the list should be way way longer. I'd have 8-10 guys who were better Blue Jays and career Baseball players than Bell and Carter just among hitters without those extenuating circumstances (although still no Gruber).

Still, even if you tighten up qualifications to the numbers/careers that Alomar, Delgado, and Fernandez put up, then Bautista is up to the level of the task one way or another. Right there with the highest Blue Jay total contributions, but not in the Alomar career conversation so no HOF for him.

BTW, using Alomar as a measure, I think it's pretty unfair there's so little talk for Olerud. He's probably my next guy and the guy I'd measure future contenders against (or Barfield who I would've honestly put up before Bell, but I get the MVP thing, hard to argue against it).

By either measure (Olerud or Barfield), Encarnacion has no chance, although Donaldson does if he has a great season and 3ish more here or elsewhere after 2018.

Pitchers don't have nearly the debate. The future line is somewhere between Stieb and Key and it should be. Henke and Ward are perhaps an interesting conversation. Certainly if they hadn't split 92/93 the way they did it'd be far more likely one of them had made it on. Osuna could make that interesting, but he'd have to stay in Toronto and be quite successful for a long time.

I'm good with the Level of Excellence as is, honestly. Alomar's something of an edge case; he wasn't here a spectacularly long time, but he's in the Hall with a Blue Jays cap, and that's the primary reason you have to have him there.

Breaking out the statisticals, the criteria seems to be:

- On pure merit: Stieb, Halladay, Fernandez, and Delgado are in our top five in WAR as a Jay.
- Make the HOF as a Jay: I mean, yeah, that'll about do it. So that's Alomar.
- Win the MVP, maybe? George Bell.

As you say, I'm guessing that's the primary reason Bell is there (he was a good player, but probably not one worthy of immortalization otherwise, but at the time the LoE came into being he was our only MVP in 20-odd years), and also because having a Level of Excellence and then only including Dave Stieb at its inauguration would be a little funny. On the above, we'd get:

- Bautista, in. He's the other member of our top five by production. Seems a safe bet.
- Donaldson, possibly in. He's our second MVP winner. Only having four years as a Jay might work against him, though.
- Encarnacion, almost definitely not in.


Mostly, we just need to have some more damned long-time Blue Jays, particularly on the pitching side. Juan Guzman's sixth all-time in starts as a Jay for goodness sake! JA Happ could crack the top 10 this year! Our bleh drafting history is also a big contributor there, as we've had few players stick around long enough (or merit sticking around) to reach level of excellence territory, so our best players have often joined us mid-career, leaving less time to accumulate success before they reached free agency or the end of their productivity.

Schad wrote: Our bleh drafting history is also a big contributor there, as we've had few players stick around long enough (or merit sticking around) to reach level of excellence territory, so our best players have often joined us mid-career, leaving less time to accumulate success before they reached free agency or the end of their productivity.

Totally agree. And of the "stud" pitchers that we have managed to draft have too often been traded away (or given up on) before we can be sure of their full potential.
Carpenter, Syndergaard, Hoffman, etc.

According to EE, Bautista is still working out and waiting for a call from a team.