Josh Donaldson traded to [the Indians] for something because Passan says so

[sule]

Jays probably get a young middle infielder, young pitching prospect that never met expectations, and old stretch reliever.

wtf? I can't believe my eyes. It's you...it's really you

[SharoneWright]

I wonder if they let Jackie Redmond out of Rogers purgatory now.

[Schad]

There was also little effort beyond 2015. All their acquisitions pointed to putting out a team that meanders for the next few years.

Because we'd already traded away our farm system and had a payroll of over $160m. There wasn't a hell of a lot they could do but meander; that was what AA left us with.

My worry is that they are going to waste Vlad Jr's first few years, and by the time he's ready to re-sign, this team won't be good enough and won't want to pony up.

That's a concern. Ideally, we should have torn the team down earlier as a result.

It's the fact that he's basically going to be the first one up for this rebuild that is troublesome. This FO completely bungled the timing. I've said it many times. Either have a team that's on the cusp of competing so he can add to a strong roster, or they should've initiated the rebuild after the playoff loss to Cleveland, and had some strong prospects already on their way up by the time Vlad Jr. was coming up.

We should have initiated the rebuild earlier. It isn't really the FO's fault, however; it's ownership.

The way this FO handled this all, neither is an option. We can disagree, but I have a feeling it's going to be the Delgado situation all over again.

i fear that as well, but I don't think it's the FO.

[sule]

There was also little effort beyond 2015. All their acquisitions pointed to putting out a team that meanders for the next few years.

Because we'd already traded away our farm system and had a payroll of over $160m. There wasn't a hell of a lot they could do but meander; that was what AA left us with.

My worry is that they are going to waste Vlad Jr's first few years, and by the time he's ready to re-sign, this team won't be good enough and won't want to pony up.

That's a concern. Ideally, we should have torn the team down earlier as a result.

It's the fact that he's basically going to be the first one up for this rebuild that is troublesome. This FO completely bungled the timing. I've said it many times. Either have a team that's on the cusp of competing so he can add to a strong roster, or they should've initiated the rebuild after the playoff loss to Cleveland, and had some strong prospects already on their way up by the time Vlad Jr. was coming up.

We should have initiated the rebuild earlier. It isn't really the FO's fault, however; it's ownership.

The way this FO handled this all, neither is an option. We can disagree, but I have a feeling it's going to be the Delgado situation all over again.

i fear that as well, but I don't think it's the FO.

Regarding your first point, I think if they were going to meander, they could've attempted a better job at acquiring "name" players and not been so adament on dumpster diving to fill the roster. That's neither here nor there anymore.

Regarding ownership, I still don't see any proof that ownership has forced their hand outside of conjecture. So we're going to have to disagree that marketing contention was all on ownership. Besides, if this front office can't sell the ownership on their vision of how to build this team, then how can we trust them to sell upping the budget when it is time to re-sign guys like Vlad Jr. and Bo?

[vaff87]

We have any idea what specific bag of chips we traded him for yet?

[dagger]

We have any idea what specific bag of chips we traded him for yet?

No

[Fairview4Life]

There was also little effort beyond 2015. All their acquisitions pointed to putting out a team that meanders for the next few years.

Because we'd already traded away our farm system and had a payroll of over $160m. There wasn't a hell of a lot they could do but meander; that was what AA left us with.

My worry is that they are going to waste Vlad Jr's first few years, and by the time he's ready to re-sign, this team won't be good enough and won't want to pony up.

That's a concern. Ideally, we should have torn the team down earlier as a result.

It's the fact that he's basically going to be the first one up for this rebuild that is troublesome. This FO completely bungled the timing. I've said it many times. Either have a team that's on the cusp of competing so he can add to a strong roster, or they should've initiated the rebuild after the playoff loss to Cleveland, and had some strong prospects already on their way up by the time Vlad Jr. was coming up.

We should have initiated the rebuild earlier. It isn't really the FO's fault, however; it's ownership.

The way this FO handled this all, neither is an option. We can disagree, but I have a feeling it's going to be the Delgado situation all over again.

i fear that as well, but I don't think it's the FO.

Regarding your first point, I think if they were going to meander, they could've attempted a better job at acquiring "name" players and not been so adament on dumpster diving to fill the roster. That's neither here nor there anymore.

Regarding ownership, I still don't see any proof that ownership has forced their hand outside of conjecture. So we're going to have to disagree that marketing contention was all on ownership. Besides, if this front office can't sell the ownership on their vision of how to build this team, then how can we trust them to sell upping the budget when it is time to re-sign guys like Vlad Jr. and Bo?

The "conjecture" involves being a fan of te team for more than 5 years though. It's born of experience.

[sule]

Because we'd already traded away our farm system and had a payroll of over $160m. There wasn't a hell of a lot they could do but meander; that was what AA left us with.



That's a concern. Ideally, we should have torn the team down earlier as a result.



We should have initiated the rebuild earlier. It isn't really the FO's fault, however; it's ownership.



i fear that as well, but I don't think it's the FO.

Regarding your first point, I think if they were going to meander, they could've attempted a better job at acquiring "name" players and not been so adament on dumpster diving to fill the roster. That's neither here nor there anymore.

Regarding ownership, I still don't see any proof that ownership has forced their hand outside of conjecture. So we're going to have to disagree that marketing contention was all on ownership. Besides, if this front office can't sell the ownership on their vision of how to build this team, then how can we trust them to sell upping the budget when it is time to re-sign guys like Vlad Jr. and Bo?

The "conjecture" involves being a fan of te team for more than 5 years though. It's born of experience.

Been a fan since before both World Series.

What i've never experienced is the ownership insisting on contention when they've seen dwindling fan interest two years in a row. That has almost always resulted in cutting the payroll.

[So_Fresh]

Should have traded him after the 2016 season. What a nighmare season this has been.. Now who's going to play 3rd for us for the remainder of the season? Grandpa Martin? lol.. what a **** joke this organization is.

[The_Hater]

How many years do you guys think it will be until the Jays are in a position to challenge again in the playoffs?

More than 3 than years?
More than 5 years?
More than 10 years?

None of the above. 3 seasons from now.

We have a very smart management team in place, now we just need ownership to back off and let them do their job. Meddling ownership has already cost us greatly by trying to compete in 2018. It probably cost us 2 full seasons of rebuilding and several assets.

But how did they try to compete? They didn't expand the payroll. The fan turnout has been severely dwindling the last two years. And there's not a single move anyone can point to over the last 3 years that indicates this front office has been attempting to put a team out there that can compete.

They actually had the 8th largest payroll in MLB on opening day, 2018. The Yankees were 9th.

On top of all the shortsighted moves they made trying to put a competitive team on the field the past 2 seasons, the bigger mistake was they made no attempt to trade their veterans for prospects and hung onto JD, Happ, Smoak, and many others much longer than they should have. What they were left with was grossly diminished value or sometimes no trade value on these vets. Poor asset management stunts the rebuilding process.

[TheDoctor]

Loved JD and Edwin on those teams. Wish them luck together this year. Sad to see both go like they did and wish it could have led to better assets coming back for the rebuild. Sucks that JD had a really injury plagued year this year - for him and us.

[So_Fresh]

We have any idea what specific bag of chips we traded him for yet?

Traded for a bag of Cool Ranch Doritos! lol we are not getting anyone of value in return for Donaldson. Cleveland isn't that stupid.

[YogiStewart]

Granderson also traded.

any of you guys up to anything tomorrow? Jays can use a few people out to fill up their scorecard

[Schad]

Regarding your first point, I think if they were going to meander, they could've attempted a better job at acquiring "name" players and not been so adament on dumpster diving to fill the roster. That's neither here nor there anymore.

We had nothing to acquire "name" players. We had no prospects left, and we were already a top 10 payroll. Further, it wouldn't have mattered in the slightest if we acquired "name" players; we weren't one or two headliners away from contention.

Regarding ownership, I still don't see any proof that ownership has forced their hand outside of conjecture. So we're going to have to disagree that marketing contention was all on ownership. Besides, if this front office can't sell the ownership on their vision of how to build this team, then how can we trust them to sell upping the budget when it is time to re-sign guys like Vlad Jr. and Bo?

It's definitely ownership. Our president has made it clear that we didn't rebuild because our attendance was good, and that's not a decision that the front office makes.

[The_Hater]

Should have traded him after the 2016 season. What a nighmare season this has been.. Now who's going to play 3rd for us for the remainder of the season? Martin? lol.. what a **** joke this organization is.

There was no chance they were trading him after 2016, the team had back to back playoff appearances and was rightfully looking to try and extend it for a 3rd. But they absolutely should have traded him last off-season. The team had fallen off, JD was a pending free agent and Vlade and Bichette were getting close to the majors. There little doubt in my mind that ownership blocked management from trading their biggest star.

[sule]

None of the above. 3 seasons from now.

We have a very smart management team in place, now we just need ownership to back off and let them do their job. Meddling ownership has already cost us greatly by trying to compete in 2018. It probably cost us 2 full seasons of rebuilding and several assets.

But how did they try to compete? They didn't expand the payroll. The fan turnout has been severely dwindling the last two years. And there's not a single move anyone can point to over the last 3 years that indicates this front office has been attempting to put a team out there that can compete.

They actually had the 8th largest payroll in MLB on opening day, 2018. The Yankees were 9th.

On top of all the shortsighted moves they made trying to put a competitive team on the field the past 2 seasons, the bigger mistake was they made no attempt to trade their veterans for prospects and hung onto JD, Happ, Smoak, and many others much longer than they should have. What they were left with was grossly diminished value or sometimes no trade value on these vets. Poor asset management stunts the rebuilding process.

8th largest by virtue of having Donaldson, Tulo, and Martin taking up $60 million of the ~$150 million payroll. Otherwise, the rest of the roster ranks near the bottom of the league. Like, bottom 5-10 payroll. None of the teams in that range are even attempting to compete.

[Lateral Quicks]

Good to hear Granderson's been moved. Both for his sake, and the sake of outfield playing time for our young outfield glut.

[TheDoctor]

Granderson to Brewers per Rosenthal

[So_Fresh]

Should have traded him after the 2016 season. What a nighmare season this has been.. Now who's going to play 3rd for us for the remainder of the season? Martin? lol.. what a **** joke this organization is.

There was no chance they were trading him after 2016, the team had back to back playoff appearances and was rightfully looking to try and extend it for a 3rd. But they absolutely should have traded him last off-season. The team had fallen off, JD was a pending free agent and Vlade and Bichette were getting close to the majors. There little doubt in my mind that ownership blocked management from trading their biggest star.

Sorry i meant last off-season. Ownership screwed this up and they should be held accountable. They wanted people in the seats instead of a clear rebuild. Now they're stuck with nothing in return for Donaldson. Good job Blue Jays! Pay the guy $23 million and get nothing back for him. Bunch of idiots..

[SharoneWright]

OT: If management thought they'd have a tough time marketing 2018 without Josh Donaldson, how the heck you gonna market 2019 now?? Could have a been a straight rebuild starting this year with a better-stocked farm. A clear strategy in 2018, 2019, with a fast(er) approaching window of contention. Fans get that. But how is a fan supposed to view 2019 now? Still a bunch of old guys with some young guys sprinkled in. Trying to win the division??

Unfortunately it's going to be all about Vlad - not the best case scenario for our future chosen one. I'm actually going to be right p.o.'d if they exploit the 19 year old kid with massive overexposure in 1 year one. Team needs to give him space to breathe and act like they've had talented players before.