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TRADE: Diaz to Houston for RHP Thornton

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Re: TRADE: Diaz to Houston for RHP Thornton 

Post#21 » by Cyrus » Sun Nov 18, 2018 6:36 am

Schad wrote:
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I don't get this kind build we are doing, we are essentially in the last couple years getting thise fringey type middle infielders /outfielders, like below avg to solid types, and same goes for the middling arms, and hoping for what, to get by? At some point we will need a big wave of elite arms to come through, is it just nate and parhadino?


I'm not in love with the fact that we've been more focused on near-ready over upside, either. But if we're going to make moves in that direction, I'm happier when they're more marginal deals like this, where there's no likelihood of us peddling the player for a high-upside sort.

We have no shortage of depth at this point, though...having shored up that weakness (and then some), I'm hoping that they'll move on to lower-minors targets, if for no other reason than because we can't roster all of these fringy players for an extended duration.


That's my point schad, we can only take so many of these fringe roster types, our 40 mans is so full of them, that we gonna expose a bunch of these 24-26 year old minor leagues to rule 5. They need to consolidate this "Depth" with some high A, double AA arms who could end up being somebody/blue chip but 80% chance to flame out. At very least, we won't need to protect so many.
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Re: TRADE: Diaz to Houston for RHP Thornton 

Post#22 » by Skin Blues » Sun Nov 18, 2018 1:09 pm

As long as we're not losing anybody to the Rule 5 draft I don't see the problem adding guys like Paulino, Thornton, Merryweather, Pannone, etc. Of course, a 21 year old with similar potential that doesn't need to be added to the 40-man is preferable, but they're also a lot more expensive because every single team wants those guys. If we're not gonna compete, we might as well leverage those 40-man spots to get better prospects.
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Re: TRADE: Diaz to Houston for RHP Thornton 

Post#23 » by dagger » Sun Nov 18, 2018 3:26 pm

Skin Blues wrote:As long as we're not losing anybody to the Rule 5 draft I don't see the problem adding guys like Paulino, Thornton, Merryweather, Pannone, etc. Of course, a 21 year old with similar potential that doesn't need to be added to the 40-man is preferable, but they're also a lot more expensive because every single team wants those guys. If we're not gonna compete, we might as well leverage those 40-man spots to get better prospects.


We're still going to be exposing some prospects to the Rule 5 - pretty much unavoidable unless there is some drama with Martin, Tulo, Pillar, Solarte, etc before lists are submitted (on Tuesday, I believe).
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Re: TRADE: Diaz to Houston for RHP Thornton 

Post#24 » by dagger » Mon Nov 19, 2018 4:28 pm

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Re: TRADE: Diaz to Houston for RHP Thornton 

Post#25 » by YogiStewart » Mon Nov 19, 2018 5:08 pm

dagger wrote:
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still doesn't explain his 4.5 ERA
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Re: TRADE: Diaz to Houston for RHP Thornton 

Post#26 » by I_Like_Dirt » Mon Nov 19, 2018 5:30 pm

I dunno, I like this trade. It doesn't look like a steal or anything but I'm not so sure Diaz had that much trade value - the Jays got him for JB Woodman. He was good but not so outrageously good that teams were going to see him as a must have. Some teams don't need an infielder and other teams don't want the salary. The Jays definitely don't need infielders but they absolutely do need pitchers both starters and in the pen. I actually don't mind a strategy of adding a bunch of pitchers that project as 4th/5th starters or quality bullpen arms. I like this way better than the Brandon Drury trade.
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Re: TRADE: Diaz to Houston for RHP Thornton 

Post#27 » by Schad » Mon Nov 19, 2018 5:45 pm

YogiStewart wrote:
dagger wrote:
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still doesn't explain his 4.5 ERA


It's the Pacific Coast League. There are a bunch of stadia that are at high elevation, and consequently very unfriendly to pitching (and breaking balls in particular). Scoring generally runs about 20% higher in the PCL than the International League, where the Jays' AAA affiliate plays.

Now, as Longenhagen notes, it's an open question whether his stuff would hold if throwing a full starter's workload. His delivery isn't so much max effort in the sense that you think of with relievers, but it's comically exaggerated in a way that may sap stamina. But we're in a position to answer those sorts of questions, given that we're going to suck, and as the game changes a guy who gives you three good innings (if that's the direction his career leads) isn't tabbed to be the mop-up guy anymore.
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Re: TRADE: Diaz to Houston for RHP Thornton 

Post#28 » by -MetA4- » Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:30 pm

Schad wrote:It's the Pacific Coast League. There are a bunch of stadia that are at high elevation, and consequently very unfriendly to pitching (and breaking balls in particular). Scoring generally runs about 20% higher in the PCL than the International League, where the Jays' AAA affiliate plays.


He also gave up 10 ER in 1.1 IP in one outing. The ERA drops to 3.73 if you count that as an outlier. Plus the PCL factor as you mentioned.
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Re: TRADE: Diaz to Houston for RHP Thornton 

Post#29 » by dagger » Tue Nov 20, 2018 7:30 pm

Connor Greene was DFA'd today by the Cards, so that means we flipped two failed prospects for a good year of Diaz and now a shot at Thornton.
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Re: TRADE: Diaz to Houston for RHP Thornton 

Post#30 » by Ado05 » Tue Nov 20, 2018 11:18 pm

Trent Thornton is also likely to make a big league splash in 2019. The 25-year-old righty spent 2018 at Triple-A Fresno and just wrapped up an eye-opening stint in the Arizona Fall League. He has bat-missing big league stuff, sitting 92-95 and touching 96 in my multi-inning looks at him this fall, and sitting comfortably in the 95-96 range when he was asked to air it out for a single inning.

Thornton also has elite breaking ball spin rates. His 12-6 curveball spins in excess of 3,000 rpm and his firm, upper-80s slider often approaches that mark, which is rare for a breaking ball that hard. He also has a unique delivery that disorients hitters. His arm action is ugly but, short of a 7-day DL stint this year after he was hit with a comebacker, Thornton hasn’t been hurt as a pro. His usage has been atypical, however. Thornton’s starts were often spaced out by seven or eight days in 2018, and it’s unrealistic to expect him to have that kind of recovery time between turns on a big league pitching staff. If asked to throw every fifth day, his stuff may not be as nasty as it was this year. I have Thornton projected as a 120-130 inning starter with a FIP near 4.00, which puts him in the 1.5 to 2.0 WAR range annually, assuming his stuff holds on a normal schedule.


https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/astros-and-jays-both-win-diaz-thornton-deal/

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