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Hall of Fame, Class of 2019

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Re: Hall of Fame, Class of 2019 

Post#21 » by The_Hater » Wed Dec 12, 2018 3:15 pm

Hoopstarr wrote:More than anything, the BBWAA looooves longevity. It explains Dawson, Trammell, Blyleven, and countless others. They also love gimmicks. Was your name Goose and was it alliterative with your surname? Come on in. Were you a funkily mustachioed reliever? Right this way, sir. Were you an elite player during your prime and produced 50% more value than the average player during that time? Meh.


Blyleven was grossly underrated in an era where ‘wins’ were grossly overrated. He deserves to be there ahead of dozens of other HOF pitchers including Jack Morris.
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April 14th, 2019.
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Re: Hall of Fame, Class of 2019 

Post#22 » by Black Watch » Thu Dec 13, 2018 8:12 am

God, La Russa is such an arrogant old grump, defending the cronyism that he orchestrated to get Baines in the HOF by saying that only the people closest to him can really evaluate "the level of player he was."

And my faavourite: "One guy says cronyism... Now that's disrespectful to my integrity."

What a manipulative narcissist.

Chris Russo & Tony La Russa go at it in a heated debate regarding Harold Baines:
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Re: Hall of Fame, Class of 2019 

Post#23 » by Skin Blues » Thu Dec 13, 2018 1:56 pm

Not only did he never win an MVP, but he never even finished in the top 8. Nobody thought he was great even while he played. Not even once! And that was using traditional stats back then.
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Re: Hall of Fame, Class of 2019 

Post#24 » by agkagk » Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:49 pm

Skin Blues wrote:Harold Baines. JFC. All the guys falling off the ballot these days, and they vote in Harold Baines. Even if he was an above average outfielder for his whole career he'd not be voted in... but as a DH?? Meanwhile, Scott Rolen is gonna fall off the ballot with no attention at all. What an embarrassment.

I realize this is partly because guys voted on by these special committees don't have an issue being blocked by a logjam the same way guys on the actual ballot can be. But if Lee Smith getting only 34% of the vote in his 15th year on the ballot, and then getting 100% a year later by a committee, doesn't make it clear that people need to be able to vote for more than 10 people, I don't know what does.


I’m not exactly an expert on these things, but I was always under the impression that Scott rolen was basically one of the all time great three baggers. Very surprised to see him getting so little love.

Also if baines is a hall of famer than crime dog and Delgado getting in should be a layup. Crazy.
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Re: Hall of Fame, Class of 2019 

Post#25 » by Schad » Fri Dec 14, 2018 4:59 am

agkagk wrote:
I’m not exactly an expert on these things, but I was always under the impression that Scott rolen was basically one of the all time great three baggers. Very surprised to see him getting so little love.

Also if baines is a hall of famer than crime dog and Delgado getting in should be a layup. Crazy.


There are three things holding Rolen back:

- Lack of counting stats/hardware. Rolen was a tremendous defensive third baseman and a very good hitter, but he wasn't an elite home run hitter, and he fell well short of the traditional benchmarks for a Hall of Famer. Only 300-odd home runs. Slash line doesn't jump off the page. Only received a significant number of MVP votes once. Probably deserved to win a World Series MVP, but they gave it to David **** Eckstein. In a fashion, good all-around players often get punished because they don't have that tentpole event or skill that everyone remembers them by.

- The incredibly crowded HoF ballot. I bet if it was a straight "is this dude a Hall of Famer?" question, Rolen would be doing far better. Unfortunately, circumstances have conspired to screw over a bunch of guys who are deserving or bubble candidates. Because the threshold is 75% to get in, and because writers are limited to a maximum of 10 choices, baseball's inability to figure out an approach to steroid era players has created a backlog where there are more players that merit consideration than writers are allowed to consider. And that's only going to get worse; next year's ballot features Mariano Rivera, Halladay, Helton, Pettitte, Berkman and Oswalt, guys who will all pick up somewhere between a few and a lot of votes, thus making it even harder for candidates like Rolen (and Sheffield and Larry Walker and a host of others) to push themselves closer to 75%. And it'll only get worse until they finally push through the Clemenses of Bondses and Schillingses, which likely won't happen for another couple years at minimum.

- He was kinda a dick. Lots of great baseball players were far more prickly than Rolen, but writers have always tended to punish guys seen as bad teammates or difficult interviews, and Rolen was a bit of both. He was a noted curmudgeon who otherwise kept a fairly low profile, who pushed his way out of one team and was spite-traded (to us) by another. He feuded with a couple managers and was surly to a few writers. Should that matter? Not really, but it does have an impact. Personally, I think that feuding with Tony La Russa and Larry Bowa is a positive, but some seem to disagree.


I'd peg him as a bubble/lean-in candidate, and my guess is that Rolen languishes for a few years but makes it eventually, either in like his 12th year of eligibility, or via one of the veteran's committees.
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Re: Hall of Fame, Class of 2019 

Post#26 » by wamco » Fri Dec 14, 2018 12:20 pm

Only get 10 now
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Re: Hall of Fame, Class of 2019 

Post#27 » by Black Watch » Fri Jan 4, 2019 9:32 am

Baseball Hall of Fame Vote Tracker, 2019 BBHOF Tracker Summary and Leaderboard: http://www.bbhoftracker.com/
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Re: Hall of Fame, Class of 2019 

Post#28 » by JN » Mon Jan 7, 2019 2:52 am

Hoopstarr wrote:More than anything, the BBWAA looooves longevity. It explains Dawson, Trammell, Blyleven, and countless others. They also love gimmicks. Was your name Goose and was it alliterative with your surname? Come on in. Were you a funkily mustachioed reliever? Right this way, sir. Were you an elite player during your prime and produced 50% more value than the average player during that time? Meh.


Andre Dawson? I will admit that I am biased, but If you want a joke pick from that era go after Jim Rice.

Dawson was not all about longevity. He was a beast between 1980-1983. He was considered by many one of the top 5 players in baseball during that time. I'm not going to say Andre Dawson is near the top tier of hall of famers, but he is not Harold Baines or Jim Rice either. I think he is fine at that bottom level of Hall of Famers. To me he was right on the bubble line that is an acceptable in or out.

Can agree with Bert Blyleven being left out. Some of those 70s starters who could stay healty for a long time just had great counting stats but not much else.

I have also have no issue with Goose Gossage being a hall of Famer, He was an absolute monster reliever from 1975 to 1985, back when closers averaged nearly 2 innings a game and were not babied like today. Elite relievers that threw many innings, very effectively, are worthy hall of famers. Similar case for Rollie Fingers.

They had fancy names but they were clearly the best two relievers from that era over extended peaks. Now Lee Smith... that is a terrible pick. He got over half his saves in the 1 inning only era and he was not dominant either.
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Re: Hall of Fame, Class of 2019 

Post#29 » by JN » Mon Jan 7, 2019 3:22 am

Al_Oliver wrote:Shocking... Tony "DUI" La Russa making bad decisions


Hey Scoop. You were a much better HOF candidate than Harold Baines. I would be pissed at Larussa too.
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Re: Hall of Fame, Class of 2019 

Post#30 » by JN » Mon Jan 7, 2019 3:25 am

Hopefully the veterans committee recongizes this feedback so that Baines and Smith do not become the baseline and make this a cheap hall of fame like the Hockey Hall of Fame.
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Re: Hall of Fame, Class of 2019 

Post#31 » by Al_Oliver » Mon Jan 7, 2019 12:55 pm

JN wrote:
Al_Oliver wrote:Shocking... Tony "DUI" La Russa making bad decisions


Hey Scoop. You were a much better HOF candidate than Harold Baines. I would be pissed at Larussa too.


Haha... cheers!
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Re: Hall of Fame, Class of 2019 

Post#32 » by Black Watch » Tue Jan 8, 2019 5:45 pm

If Andruw Jones falls off the ballot I will give up on the Hall of Fame altogether...
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Re: Hall of Fame, Class of 2019 

Post#33 » by wamco » Tue Jan 8, 2019 6:43 pm

BOnds and clemens are way too close for my liking. Just need 26 percent to hold out
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Re: Hall of Fame, Class of 2019 

Post#34 » by Black Watch » Tue Jan 8, 2019 7:05 pm

wamco wrote:BOnds and clemens are way too close for my liking. Just need 26 percent to hold out

Yah, forgot about them. If either one of them gets in, I will never pay attention to the Hall of Fame again.
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Re: Hall of Fame, Class of 2019 

Post#35 » by I_Like_Dirt » Wed Jan 9, 2019 5:10 pm

Black Watch wrote:Yah, forgot about them. If either one of them gets in, I will never pay attention to the Hall of Fame again.


And I posit that a Hall without either of those guys is entirely pointless and not including them because of groupthink social justice just because they were caught and others weren't and have made/will make the hall basically renders the point of the hall meaningless. Beyond that, when guys like Ty Cobb, Cap Anson, Babe Ruth, Gaylord Perry, etc., and those guys are spoken about in revered tones, it's pretty tough to argue there is some sort of morals clause here. The Hall should have just inducted them straight away and been done with it. It would have cleared up a lot of these lists that are getting more crowded by the year. Rodriguez and Bagwell are already in the hall, too. Drawing some arbitrary line for a few players is the height of hypocrisy.
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Re: Hall of Fame, Class of 2019 

Post#36 » by BigLeagueChew » Tue Jan 22, 2019 9:29 pm

Read on Twitter


Halladay please.
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Re: Hall of Fame, Class of 2019 

Post#37 » by SharoneWright » Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:53 pm

On thing's for sure, the Blue Jays forced Roy to wear a really wide variety of bad uniforms and caps.
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Re: Hall of Fame, Class of 2019 

Post#38 » by BigLeagueChew » Wed Jan 23, 2019 12:15 am

SharoneWright wrote:On thing's for sure, the Blue Jays forced Roy to wear a really wide variety of bad uniforms and caps.


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Re: Hall of Fame, Class of 2019 

Post#39 » by SharoneWright » Wed Jan 23, 2019 12:40 am

BigLeagueChew wrote:
SharoneWright wrote:On thing's for sure, the Blue Jays forced Roy to wear a really wide variety of bad uniforms and caps.


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you nailed it. ugh.

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Re: Hall of Fame, Class of 2019 

Post#40 » by BigLeagueChew » Wed Jan 23, 2019 12:55 am

SharoneWright wrote:
BigLeagueChew wrote:
SharoneWright wrote:On thing's for sure, the Blue Jays forced Roy to wear a really wide variety of bad uniforms and caps.


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you nailed it. ugh.

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"jays" logo with black uniforms was also terrible.

Wonder what it's like knowing you're in the %15 that didn't vote for Halladay.

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