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vaff87 wrote:

Schad wrote:Norris is an absolute piece of ****. Ironically, being a piece of **** is why a lot of people in baseball consider him to be a leader, because he directs it at younger players.

What’d he do?

Schad wrote:

Lateral Quicks wrote:

So_Fresh wrote:Doesn't look like Borucki will be starting with the big club in 2019.

Stroman
Sanchez
Shoemaker
Richard
Buchholz

You know, outside Richard, that actually has the makings of a pretty solid rotation.

At peak, though most rotations are good if you take their best results. Buchholz's claim to fame is that he's wildly inconsistent; his averages are basically that of a league-average starter, but split between good and bad years.

It's also probably the most injury-riddled in baseball. Richard's the only one of the five to throw anything close to a full season in 2018, so while the likes of Borucki might not be starting the year with the Jays, I'd expect that he'll get his innings in.

That said, if you're a team that is going to suck, Shoemaker and Buchholz are the sort of players you want to be picking up. Maybe a third or half the time, you get a reasonable trade asset (or more) out of the deal, and once every 30 years or so you become the 2018 A's.

Schad wrote:Has also, as that article notes, made some seriously questionable comments about how Latin players need to conform and act more white or whatever. He's peak Cardinals Man, but the unfortunate reality is that there are an awful lot of Bud Norrises out there, and probably several on the team already.

Schad wrote:Feel obligated to mention, before someone else comments on it, that Norris' comments about the fundamental Americanness of baseball and the need for Latin players to respect that shows a fundamental misunderstanding of baseball's history. Yeah, the mythology is all cornpone illiterates who gained their strength lifting bulls on pappy's dirt farm or some such, and whose families had never left their plot of land in 200 years until someone discovered that Junior could hit dingers. And sure, there were plenty of those. But, like, a huge part of the history even prior to integration and the rise of Latin players is tied up in baseball's multicultural appeal. Adopting baseball was part of adopting Americanness, not the other way around.

Schad wrote:Stanislaw Franciszek "Stan" Musial; Heinrich Ludwig "Lou" Gehrig; Lorenzo Pietro "Yogi" Berra; Alois Szymanski (rechristened Al Simmons); Hyman "Hank" Greenberg; Joe and Dom DiMaggio and Heinie Manush and Charlie Gehringer and god knows how many others in the Hall and outside of it...baseball's whole damned history is tied up in people who grew up between cultures as the kids of immigrants. If Norris wants to complain that Latin players are being too ethnic or something, they aren't the ones disrespecting baseball's history.

Schad wrote:Baseball was also more of a product of cities then; it was a sport learned in streets by kids with a stick and ball as much as in a cornfield. But most of all, it was by and large (like soccer in Europe and South America) a sport that captured the interest of poor kids, whether urban or rural, because of the ease with which one could play some form of it.

Racial animus is definitely a big part of it. There's also a socioeconomic aspect; like hockey, in North America it's very much a game of the suburbs now. Land's too expensive to throw up ball fields all over the place in urban areas, and it's generally frowned upon to stand around in streets, never mind bang a ball off buildings for hours at a time. You pay to have your kid on a good travel team, maybe pay for specialized coaching, pay for room and board and travel for the Cod if your kid is good, and unless you're a high draft pick, it really helps if your family can afford to support you, because you aren't getting rich in the minors. The poor farmboy from Indiana and the poor son of immigrants from NYC had more shared experiences than the upper-middle-class kid from The Woodlands and the kid from La Romana who lived at a Dominican academy (private first, then team-run) from the age of 12 before coming stateside.

So_Fresh wrote:Doesn't look like Borucki will be starting with the big club in 2019.

Stroman
Sanchez
Shoemaker
Richard
Buchholz

The_Hater wrote:

So_Fresh wrote:Doesn't look like Borucki will be starting with the big club in 2019.

Stroman
Sanchez
Shoemaker
Richard
Buchholz

There should be room for him after the trade deadline though....

Now, all four locks for the rotation are coming off injury, and it’s entirely possible one of them doesn’t survive the spring. And maybe the Blue Jays want to be ready in case someone makes them an offer for Stroman or Sanchez they can’t refuse.

That’s fair. But starting Borucki in the minors just because he has an option would be a terrible message to send the club’s young players, especially since Vladimir Guerrero Jr., will start the year off at triple-A Buffalo so his free agency can be pushed back a year.

Of the club’s young players, they are clearly the most deserving of a roster spot, and if neither opens the season in the big-leagues, any talk of a meritocracy, and carrying the best 25 players will ring absolutely hollow. Certainly, Atkins’ comments on Guerrero to MLB Network Radio earlier this week, when he said that "I just don’t see him as a major-league player," began laying the groundwork for the 19-year-old’s eventual demotion, ruffling feathers in the process.

Financial arguments aside, there’s something corrosive about repeatedly telling a player that’s clearly ready for the majors that he’s not, and then withholding opportunity from him. And beyond that, every player in the organization sees that the club will use every lever it can to suppress earnings.

In Borucki’s case, service-time manipulation would be far-fetched, as he accumulated 88 days last year, and his free agency would only be pushed back if he spent a maximum of 83 days in the majors in 2019. He’s not in range of eventually gaining Super 2 arbitration status, either, so we can rule that out.

The other stuff, though? Confusing, especially since you’d think this year is designed to get Borucki and the likes of Sean Reid-Foley, Trent Thornton and Thomas Pannone, among other prospects, as much experience as possible without being unwatchable.

Either way, without knowing exactly what the front office is thinking, the impression here is that in bolstering their pitching depth with Norris and Buchholz, the Blue Jays may have gotten away from their more primary goals in the process.

rarefind wrote:There is a reason why Bud Norris could only yield a minor league deal. For a guy who notched 28 saves last year, that is very telling.

Shatkins valuing the possibility of a mid season trade of Norris over the culture of a young and rebuilding organization. Nice.

wamco wrote:“That’s the best way to put it.”