Around the MLB

[Black Watch]

For those interested in seeing just how spread out (or not spread out) all the various minor league teams are in their respective leagues, take a look at this map:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?mid=1-Nca_FK5EUsI9v53B0fGdA6Y8zg&&ll=34.695717722543876%2C-96.69203949999996&z=4

... I think the MLB will have to find a new pretext for MiLB contraction.

[polo007]

Rays’ Stuart Sternberg: Aim is Montreal split plan for 2028 - Tampa Bay Times

Despite their timetable for sharing games being pushed back to 2028 with St. Petersburg Mayor Rick Kriseman’s “disappointing” but unsurprising refusal to allow a move before the end of their Tropicana Field use agreement, Sternberg said the Rays will continue to push hard for the Montreal plan.

“Something we would have liked to have happen in 2024-25 will happen in 2028,” he said.

Their work, primarily on determining the viability of a plan that calls for new open-air stadiums to be built in both markets, will be aggressive. That’s because he said they need to know in the next 12 months or so whether it will work as well as they expect. And, either way, to know by 2022, or 2023 at the latest, where they will be playing in 2028.

If the sharing plan can’t be worked out, Sternberg said he would either then start looking for a new home elsewhere or, more likely, sell the team to someone who would move it.

But staying full time in the Tampa Bay area, in Pinellas or Hillsborough, remains the least likely solution given their failed previous attempts.

“I’m open to any conversation,” Sternberg said. “They’d have to show me why it would work. We did work previously, we spent years on it. Some of the really solid business leaders, earnestly, and in a caring fashion, tried to make it work. But if there’s a genie in a bottle somewhere that wants to show me why it would work — I just can’t envision it. You never say never, but I can’t envision it. It’s less than highly unlikely.”

And if they were to consider it, he said a Hillsborough site would “no doubt” be the choice over St. Petersburg, but Hillsborough options “don’t seem to be viable enough” either. “It doesn’t get over the bar for full season,” he said. “Is it more (attractive) than St. Pete? Yes, because St. Pete is not happening.”

• They are not looking to break their lease at the Trop to leave before the end of the 2027 season. “It could come to that but that’s not the way I’m approaching it,” he said. A potential reason they might, he said, was if they had the sharing plan in place and agreed with the mayor who replaces Kriseman that it made sense to move the date up. “There will always be a discussion but I’m not putting that into the equation,” he said.

• If the sharing plan doesn’t prove viable, Sternberg said he would not look to move the team to Montreal full time since he didn’t think that would work. But he left open the possibility to be convinced if the group there, led by Steven Bronfman, found corporate support “far in excess of what I anticipated they could prove themselves” to be a permanent home. “Right now I think there are better full-time markets than Montreal,” he said.

• He has not “even scratched the surface” on details elsewhere, though markets such as Las Vegas, Nashville, Portland, Charlotte and Orlando have made public pushes. “There’s no secret that multiple people have reached out to me and others multiple times over multiple periods to move this team to their city and I haven’t had these conversations,” he said. “I’m not looking to do it. It’s not necessary for me to do it. That’s probably most important. And I’m not desirous of doing it."

“Their selling point is that you’re much better off, and they’re probably right. But I haven’t explored it. I haven’t thought about it. And even if we are better off, I’ve committed to myself and, and will maintain it, I’m going to do everything I can to keep baseball here for generations.”

[polo007]

Several MLB GMs in favor of paring down minor leagues - Yahoo! Sports

Minor League Baseball issued a statement Friday, countering many of Manfred’s recent claims and complaints about the system and the existing agreement.

There appears to be work to be done to administer to MLB’s requests for better facilities, travel conditions and salaries, among other complaints. And while the or-else option has worked up a good bit of acrimony in those who stand to lose teams, a not uncommon opinion within baseball operations departments holds that — from a purely developmental standpoint, and for a moment setting difficult and legitimate sentiments aside — a leaner minor-league system might be best for baseball players.

This, of course, assumes current player development budgets, spread over seven to as many as nine minor-league teams per organization, remained similar. Each of the baseball operations officials interviewed by Yahoo Sports insisted they would. Club owners are the final arbiters of such decisions. Sanders, for one, stated MLB’s proposal had, “Nothing to do with what’s good for baseball and everything to do with greed.

“Instead of paying Minor League Baseball players a living wage, it appears that the multimillionaire and billionaire owners of Major League Baseball would rather throw them out on the street no matter how many fans, communities and workers get hurt in the process.”

Mark Shapiro, president and CEO of the Toronto Blue Jays, cut his teeth as a farm director with the Cleveland Indians and still holds player development as his first professional priority. He also believes he has a clearer view of how best to raise a young player.

“I’m not a politician and I’m not trying to get votes,” Shapiro said. “I’m not worried about any constituency. I’m just trying to run a business and do the right thing. And to promote the game that I love, that I’ve committed 30 years of my life to, not 30 minutes of my life. I’m not going to get into a debate with him. But I feel like there’s not a staff member giving me a briefing document. This is my life. I’m living this. I’ve lived it for 30 years. I’m never going to go toe to toe with him on domestic policy. But I will go toe to toe with Bernie Sanders on professional baseball.”

[bturn2210]

Will Ryu sign somewhere (preferably with the Bluejays) so that I can stop going on twitter. Gotta think he signs soon. Teams will be hard after him, Keuchel now as they are the top SP left and lots of teams still looking for SP.

[whysoserious]

Why are the Jays so in love with a 32 year old who had a career year in a contract year and pitched the most innings since he was a rookie?

And this would be a guy joining the AL East, i doubt he's able to keep that ERA that low in the AL, let alone AL East.

[fbalmeida]

Going after Ryu and not holding on to Stroman because his age didn't map onto our competitiveness window...

[I_Like_Dirt]

For those interested in seeing just how spread out (or not spread out) all the various minor league teams are in their respective leagues, take a look at this map:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?mid=1-Nca_FK5EUsI9v53B0fGdA6Y8zg&&ll=34.695717722543876%2C-96.69203949999996&z=4

... I think the MLB will have to find a new pretext for MiLB contraction.

Ouch. Shapiro already spoke about "running a business" which is code for being cheap but being cheap is more about milking taxpayers than it is about shorter flights or anything like that. Focusing on statistical analysis is a great way of saying cheaper, too, because they could easily do both but won't.

That said, I get what baseball is doing and why if we make this a purely academic business equation. The thing is, baseball is grounded in tradition and popularity and such and this seems like a pretty short-sighted decision on those fronts. The only reason people are reacting the way that Bernie Sanders is reacting, for example, is because there is such a close-knit community involvement with some of these teams. I'm not so sure that destroying that for short term gains is necessarily the wisest of choices but who knows, I guess.

[Schad]

Going after Ryu and not holding on to Stroman because his age didn't map onto our competitiveness window...

It wasn't Stroman's age that didn't map, it was his years of team control. He was pretty well certain to explore free agency, which meant that we'd have been in the uncomfortable position of needing to outbid the league to keep him, and he will (with a good 2020) be quite expensive over a long period of time. We still have the option to outbid the league, but now we have two pitching prospects in the mix long-term.

[dagger]

For those interested in seeing just how spread out (or not spread out) all the various minor league teams are in their respective leagues, take a look at this map:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?mid=1-Nca_FK5EUsI9v53B0fGdA6Y8zg&&ll=34.695717722543876%2C-96.69203949999996&z=4

... I think the MLB will have to find a new pretext for MiLB contraction.

Ouch. Shapiro already spoke about "running a business" which is code for being cheap but being cheap is more about milking taxpayers than it is about shorter flights or anything like that. Focusing on statistical analysis is a great way of saying cheaper, too, because they could easily do both but won't.

That said, I get what baseball is doing and why if we make this a purely academic business equation. The thing is, baseball is grounded in tradition and popularity and such and this seems like a pretty short-sighted decision on those fronts. The only reason people are reacting the way that Bernie Sanders is reacting, for example, is because there is such a close-knit community involvement with some of these teams. I'm not so sure that destroying that for short term gains is necessarily the wisest of choices but who knows, I guess.

I've been called paranoid for suggesting this, but I'm more convinced than ever that the team's reduced 2020 payroll spending - currently tracking for a $100m or less for the 26-man roster - is a function of Rogers and that f@qing NHL fiasco. Apparently, when asked about the stadium reno recently, Shapiro had no news and gave off the impression to some media that any plans are way, way in the future, possibly destined for the same file as natural turf. One of his main tasks when he was hired was to update the stadium, so if there is no major spending there, it tells me this is about Rogers and not about Shatkins.

[The_Hater]

Why are the Jays so in love with a 32 year old who had a career year in a contract year and pitched the most innings since he was a rookie?

And this would be a guy joining the AL East, i doubt he's able to keep that ERA that low in the AL, let alone AL East.

If the number 1 factor for signing pitchers is ‘you won’t be as good in the AL east’ then what’s the point of signing anyone? Everyone is going to look a bit worse right?

But you still need good pitchers to eat up innings, that issue isn’t going away. And Ryu is a very good MLB starting pitcher by any measure.

[The_Hater]

Going after Ryu and not holding on to Stroman because his age didn't map onto our competitiveness window...

We got 2 good young Pitchers back for Stroman, both under team control for years, while Storman was 1 year away from walking. And they sold high on his value as well, that’s very good asset management.

Not sure why one thing has anything to do with the other but If the Jays really like Stroman that much, they can outbid everyone and bring him back next winter.

[whysoserious]

Why are the Jays so in love with a 32 year old who had a career year in a contract year and pitched the most innings since he was a rookie?

And this would be a guy joining the AL East, i doubt he's able to keep that ERA that low in the AL, let alone AL East.

If the number 1 factor for signing pitchers is ‘you won’t be as good in the AL east’ then what’s the point of signing anyone? Everyone is going to look a bit worse right?

But you still need good pitchers to eat up innings, that issue isn’t going away. And Ryu is a very good MLB starting pitcher by any measure.

It comes down to the cost. Jays didn't want to pay a 26-27 year old Stroman but are willing to commit a few years to Ryu? I'll admit I don't follow baseball as closely, but I always hate paying guys coming off career years in a contract year. Especially one that's 32 years old. You still have to fill out a roster but this organization loves to make it look like they're going after something and then pass, settle on something less and sell it as we tried or over pay for mediocre. I want to be fair to these guys but this guy as a top target just doesn't seem like a good idea on the surface.

[fbalmeida]

Schad and The_Hater: rightly called me out on a momentary lapse of reason. Getting caught up in the FA banter, I forgot for a moment that Stro didn't just get up and walk. We got Kay, who might be ready to go this year, and Woods-Richardson in the pipeline.

Still, if it was my team to run, I would've sought to keep him, signing him up on a 4 or 5 year deal, while trading away veterans like Smoak and Grichuk for lesser prospects. That would give us one less roster headache to worry about within the team's competitiveness window.

We could always trade Stroman later on for game-ready players or future prospects, as needed. Re-signing him by outbidding every other team in the league after you've traded him elsewhere doesn't seem like a feasible strategy.

Signing Ryu right now is likely going to be expensive. I actually think we should go for him, but the moment we do he becomes trade fodder for prospects down the road, in my humble opinion. My idea of rebuilding is using free agency as a proxy for purchasing prospects. But if you've got a guy that's 28 and brings people to the games... you hang on to him.

[The_Hater]

Why are the Jays so in love with a 32 year old who had a career year in a contract year and pitched the most innings since he was a rookie?

And this would be a guy joining the AL East, i doubt he's able to keep that ERA that low in the AL, let alone AL East.

If the number 1 factor for signing pitchers is ‘you won’t be as good in the AL east’ then what’s the point of signing anyone? Everyone is going to look a bit worse right?

But you still need good pitchers to eat up innings, that issue isn’t going away. And Ryu is a very good MLB starting pitcher by any measure.

It comes down to the cost. Jays didn't want to pay a 26-27 year old Stroman but are willing to commit a few years to Ryu? I'll admit I don't follow baseball as closely, but I always hate paying guys coming off career years in a contract year. Especially one that's 32 years old. You still have to fill out a roster but this organization loves to make it look like they're going after something and then pass, settle on something less and sell it as we tried or over pay for mediocre. I want to be fair to these guys but this guy as a top target just doesn't seem like a good idea on the surface.

People need to stop comparing this situation to Stroman. Stroman was about asset management, they traded him for 2 good young pitchers because he could walk after this season and it would be out of their control. That’s not the same as paying a FA pitcher, there is no risk attached if they don’t get him but you also don’t get the 2 young pitchers you traded Stroman for as a consellation prize.

As it is, Ryu has been significantly better than Stroman throughout their careers, Stroman was god awful in 2018 and everyone conveniently forgets that because he bounced back strong in 2019. He’s not as reliable as Ryu has been.

Anyways, you’re entitled to your opinion but I’m not sure what you think an upper tier SP looks like I’d it’s not Ryu, and the numbers support that. The question mark with him is health, thats pretty much it. And if management decides that the price tag is too much and passes, why is that a bad thing?

[Skin Blues]

Going after Ryu and not holding on to Stroman because his age didn't map onto our competitiveness window...

We can still sign Stroman once he's a free agent. It was way more important to land those two prospects than to have Stro around for the final year and a half of his contract.

[Schad]

Still, if it was my team to run, I would've sought to keep him, signing him up on a 4 or 5 year deal, while trading away veterans like Smoak and Grichuk for lesser prospects. That would give us one less roster headache to worry about within the team's competitiveness window.

It's a possibility, but we really have no idea what it'd have cost to buy him out of free agency. That cost has historically been quite high; it's possible that he would have been willing to take a bit less coming off a bad 2018, but I'd be pretty dubious. Stroman has gotten his back up over the arbitration process and suggested that he'd get his in free agency, so unless we were paying over the odds he likely doesn't have much incentive to sign an extension.

We could always trade Stroman later on for game-ready players or future prospects, as needed. Re-signing him by outbidding every other team in the league after you've traded him elsewhere doesn't seem like a feasible strategy.

You wouldn't be guaranteed to trade Stroman for much, because if you're paying a player full market value, they by definition don't have a lot of trade value...trade value, particularly in an era where GMs know what they're doing, is found in the surplus between the player's production and their contract. Teams have gotten far pickier about giving up a bounty for someone paid fairly/overpaid.

And re-signing him by outbidding every other team in the league is baked in. Either you're doing it a year ahead as both parties anticipate his future market, or you do it once he has reached FA.

[Tanner]

It's not like Ryu fluked his way to a great ERA. He prevents hard contact/exit velo at an elite rate, and hitters have trouble barreling the ball off of him. Combine that with great control the last two years. Velocity has been consistent despite injuries. When he pitches, he'll most likely be good, possibly really good. This is the type of deal where you get the potential upside of an ace, with enough red flags (age, injury) to make him affordable. The question is whether you want to take the risk over four years of his arm falling off. It's possible. But if you don't sign him, who do you sign? He doesn't cost a pick, and the Jays have money to spend.

I don't expect him to sign with us, I'd be surprised if anyone decent does, but he makes sense.

[whysoserious]

People need to stop comparing this situation to Stroman. Stroman was about asset management, they traded him for 2 good young pitchers because he could walk after this season and it would be out of their control. That’s not the same as paying a FA pitcher, there is no risk attached if they don’t get him but you also don’t get the 2 young pitchers you traded Stroman for as a consellation prize.

As it is, Ryu has been significantly better than Stroman throughout their careers, Stroman was god awful in 2018 and everyone conveniently forgets that because he bounced back strong in 2019. He’s not as reliable as Ryu has been.

Anyways, you’re entitled to your opinion but I’m not sure what you think an upper tier SP looks like I’d it’s not Ryu, and the numbers support that. The question mark with him is health, thats pretty much it. And if management decides that the price tag is too much and passes, why is that a bad thing?

I never really took issue with trading Stroman and getting assets back. But if you're only looking for stop gap pitchers over the next while then Stroman is also good. Ryu may do just that too. The thing with this signing is Ryu has been okay his entire career. But he had a career year in leading ERA in the National League at 32. When you pay guys like that it generally doesn't work. If he's getting a 2 year deal with an overpayment on money, it's no big deal. But when it starts to get in to the 4 year territory it sucks. He hasn't signed yet with anyone so we'll see where the money and term lands but it just smells of a bad signing. It also keeps with the Jays (and this isn't about Shapiro/Atkins specifically), that they like to look like they're going after guys but then pass on them. And they do this with second tier pitchers, they don't go after top pitchers.

On the Shapiro/Atkins front, these two just don't do PR well and in a city where we had to deal with Colangelo, they seem to be in the same boat from a media perspective. They come off the same way. Which is why they don't get credit and fans are jaded to what they're doing. They've done good things but when they go out saying they're investing in pitching and then go after this type of player it just isn't a great look.

[The_Hater]

People need to stop comparing this situation to Stroman. Stroman was about asset management, they traded him for 2 good young pitchers because he could walk after this season and it would be out of their control. That’s not the same as paying a FA pitcher, there is no risk attached if they don’t get him but you also don’t get the 2 young pitchers you traded Stroman for as a consellation prize.

As it is, Ryu has been significantly better than Stroman throughout their careers, Stroman was god awful in 2018 and everyone conveniently forgets that because he bounced back strong in 2019. He’s not as reliable as Ryu has been.

Anyways, you’re entitled to your opinion but I’m not sure what you think an upper tier SP looks like I’d it’s not Ryu, and the numbers support that. The question mark with him is health, thats pretty much it. And if management decides that the price tag is too much and passes, why is that a bad thing?

I never really took issue with trading Stroman and getting assets back. But if you're only looking for stop gap pitchers over the next while then Stroman is also good. Ryu may do just that too. The thing with this signing is Ryu has been okay his entire career. But he had a career year in leading ERA in the National League at 32. When you pay guys like that it generally doesn't work. If he's getting a 2 year deal with an overpayment on money, it's no big deal. But when it starts to get in to the 4 year territory it sucks. He hasn't signed yet with anyone so we'll see where the money and term lands but it just smells of a bad signing. It also keeps with the Jays (and this isn't about Shapiro/Atkins specifically), that they like to look like they're going after guys but then pass on them. And they do this with second tier pitchers, they don't go after top pitchers.

On the Shapiro/Atkins front, these two just don't do PR well and in a city where we had to deal with Colangelo, they seem to be in the same boat from a media perspective. They come off the same way. Which is why they don't get credit and fans are jaded to what they're doing. They've done good things but when they go out saying they're investing in pitching and then go after this type of player it just isn't a great look.

I could really don’t think much about the media and the FO putting out PR. It doesn’t really matter to me. And that’s not where my comments were directed.

Stroman will be a free agent next winter, the Jays can try and sign him if they think he’s worth it. But in the short term, Stroman has nothing to do with the current free agency period.

As it is, Ryu has been a couple of levels well above ‘ok’ his entire career. RA Dickey was about a league average starting pitcher when he was here, that’s what an ok pitcher looks like. Ryu has been a top tier guy. That’s not my opinion, his numbers over the past 6 years clearly support that and in MLB the numbers don’t lie.

[I_Like_Dirt]

Every argument for keeping Stroman always seems to hinge around this idea that he'd have taken less money to stay than he would have in free agency. That's just not logical with Stroman, who was often upset over the arbitration process. If he'd have been willing to give a huge discount, I imagine the Jays would have signed him to that kind of extension. Heck, it would have made him an even more desirable trade piece. Stroman is going to take the most money in free agency and that would have held true regardless. The Jays can go get him if they truly want him back and in the meanwhile they'd have Kay, SWR and potentially Ryu instead of Stroman, which seems like a rather impressive deal in general - even without Ryu it's pretty fantastic.