A's vs Jays - April 26-28 - It's time!

[jaymeister15]

That strikes me as being highly unlikely. Seems far more likely that we're simply protecting Guerrero, given that he's by far our most important asset, and given that he only recently returned from a muscular injury.

I also cannot imagine how Montoyo gains from this. He was going to be criticized by the media - and may still be - but for the comeback win. Unless Hanson steals a base or two, and comes in to score, it's a bad look for Montoyo.

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That quote is concerning. Pulling your best hitter when he is on 1st with 1 out in a tie game in order to use vastly inferior players that happen to be a bit faster seems really bad to me.

Makes a bit more sense when he is in scoring position with 0 outs and 2 sac flys can win the game, but I don’t even know if it’s a good call in that situation, probably close. Hope it’s not a trend.

Fun win tho.

[Fairview4Life]

We're going to Royals our way to the title.

[I_Like_Dirt]

People are complaining about Montoyo? Small sample size so far but he's been fantastic. He's way better than Gibbons. Creative and seems like he's actually trying to protect his players by letting them all play but not overplaying them. I haven't seen any credible negatives from him and the criticisms levied at him all seem to be of the hindsight remote control manager sorts of criticisms. The team is overachieving right now by quite a bit and while the players deserve most of the credit, he's still a part of that.

[Fairview4Life]

Gibbons was good. Montoyo seems fine so far, although he tinkers a lot.

[SharoneWright]

A rookie dousing a vet with Gatorade??? Who does the kid think he is?? pfft!!

[duppyy]

Only Toronto fans can find faults in a good team win.

[C Court]

That was a fun weekend of baseball and an amazing late comeback win. Is it too much to ask that we just enjoy the Jays surprisingly decent start to the season? It’s a little early to be second guessing the manager, particularly when he has the Jays playing well.

[Wo1verine]

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Not so sure it's protecting Vlad at all maybe more strategy?

Gibby was way more analytical than this his second time around and they fired him for a man who is the same age but manages like he's in the 70s.
Taking out the franchise player in a 1-1 game in the 9th when he's on 1st with 1 out and could conceivably have to bat again if it goes to extra innings is foolish.

Coming from Tampa and all the talk about analytics just expected more savvy decision making from Montoyo.

[Black Watch]

Gibby >>> Glorified hispanophone.

[Black Watch]

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If he keeps this up, the trade rumours are going to be exciting.

[The_Hater]

People are complaining about Montoyo? Small sample size so far but he's been fantastic. He's way better than Gibbons. Creative and seems like he's actually trying to protect his players by letting them all play but not overplaying them. I haven't seen any credible negatives from him and the criticisms levied at him all seem to be of the hindsight remote control manager sorts of criticisms. The team is overachieving right now by quite a bit and while the players deserve most of the credit, he's still a part of that.

Creative sure, but if he was doing all these sacrifice bunts and squeeze plays with the 2015-16 Jays we’d be singing a different tune. He would have been taking us out of big innings by giving away outs.

As it is, I think he did go overboard with the pinch running for Vlad, it’s a fair criticism.

[BramptonYute]

That strikes me as being highly unlikely. Seems far more likely that we're simply protecting Guerrero, given that he's by far our most important asset, and given that he only recently returned from a muscular injury.

I also cannot imagine how Montoyo gains from this. He was going to be criticized by the media - and may still be - but for the comeback win. Unless Hanson steals a base or two, and comes in to score, it's a bad look for Montoyo.

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https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/sprint_speed_leaderboard?year=2019&position=&team=TOR&min=10

[I_Like_Dirt]

Creative sure, but if he was doing all these sacrifice bunts and squeeze plays with the 2015-16 Jays we’d be singing a different tune. He would have been taking us out of big innings by giving away outs.

As it is, I think he did go overboard with the pinch running for Vlad, it’s a fair criticism.

Who's to say he would have acted the same way with the 2015-16 Jays? And who's to say that the 2015-16 Jays wouldn't have had more big innings if they were more willing to take risks? Personally, I tend to think they'd have been worse because they were a star heavy team loaded with power hitters that didn't have much in the way of utility guys to bring in but I'm not sure I'm willing to assume anything, either.

Pinch running for Vlad is absolutely an armchair criticism at best. People are talking about how he could have possibly batted again are talking about a scenario that wasn't any more likely than the Jays actually winning the game in the 9th. We're also talking about a player who had a recent knee injury that they're keeping from potentially being challenged on the base paths while trying to win the game. I think this is a mountain out of a molehill at best.

[The_Hater]

Creative sure, but if he was doing all these sacrifice bunts and squeeze plays with the 2015-16 Jays we’d be singing a different tune. He would have been taking us out of big innings by giving away outs.

As it is, I think he did go overboard with the pinch running for Vlad, it’s a fair criticism.

Who's to say he would have acted the same way with the 2015-16 Jays?

I didn't say he would have, but you did compare his to Gibby and Gibby managed those 2 teams.

And who's to say that the 2015-16 Jays wouldn't have had more big innings if they were more willing to take risks?

Statistics. Sacrifice bunts can increase the odds of scoring 1 run in a single inning but they decrease the number of big innings a team will have and it decreases the total number runs that team will score over the course of a season. That cost of runs is even more severe when you're a top offensive team like the Jays were during those seasons. One also has to consider how a team is built, the Gibby teams were built with several sluggers who struggled to lay down bunts. Even the losing teams in 2017-18 weren't built to play station to station baseball.

And the suicide squeeze, statistically, just isn't a high percentage play, but it is a 10/10 for excitement so the fans love to see it.

[I_Like_Dirt]

And the suicide squeeze, statistically, just isn't a high percentage play, but it is a 10/10 for excitement so the fans love to see it.

It's been a statistically high percentage play when Montoyo has used it for the Jays.

That said, I don't think the hitting side is where Montoyo is making the most of his ground. I just don't think he's been bad there. He's done his best work with the pitchers, not overplaying starters (Aaron Sanchez is averaging 5 innings per start) and bringing back the long reliever spots. It didn't work out that way but I actually think trying anything to win in 9 was also influenced a bit by trying to protect pitchers. It's all just speculation, really, but I didn't see anything there that would suggest a particularly terrible call to me in that sense, even if the Jays had wound up losing the game.

[The_Hater]

And the suicide squeeze, statistically, just isn't a high percentage play, but it is a 10/10 for excitement so the fans love to see it.

It's been a statistically high percentage play when Montoyo has used it for the Jays.

That said, I don't think the hitting side is where Montoyo is making the most of his ground. I just don't think he's been bad there. He's done his best work with the pitchers, not overplaying starters (Aaron Sanchez is averaging 5 innings per start) and bringing back the long reliever spots. It didn't work out that way but I actually think trying anything to win in 9 was also influenced a bit by trying to protect pitchers. It's all just speculation, really, but I didn't see anything there that would suggest a particularly terrible call to me in that sense, even if the Jays had wound up losing the game.

Maybe but Gibby was fairly diligent at pulling his starters at 100 pitchers.

As it is, I've always said that baseball managers have very little effect on the outcome of games. If your starting pitcher **** the bed or the other starting pitcher brings his A game, there's not much he's going to be able to do to change the outcome. and baseball is such a game of numbers and there are no secret's anymore, every team copies what everyone else is doing.

[BigLeagueChew]

Am not really confident in our ability to go 10+ innings, especially after Tepera and Giles have been burned. Pulling vlad jr is probably the right move, we gave up the runs and managed a comeback but that won't happen all the time.

[Fairview4Life]

Thing is, if the umps didn't **** up that call at 2nd base (and the review!), Hanson would have scored the winning run in the 9th, making Charlie Yost look like a genius, yet again.

[johanliebert]

Gibbons was good. Montoyo seems fine so far, although he tinkers a lot.

yall will stop worrying when you realize the guys upstairs call all the shots. theres a pecking order and managers are just figure heads who control ego's.

i remember an ex jay stating how jp ricciardi would dictate day to day lineups for gibby over a decade ago. Anyways all this bunting and being cautious with pitch counts is clearly what the sabrametricans and management want.

[Skin Blues]

Gibbons was good. Montoyo seems fine so far, although he tinkers a lot.

yall will stop worrying when you realize the guys upstairs call all the shots. theres a pecking order and managers are just figure heads who control ego's.

i remember an ex jay stating how jp ricciardi would dictate day to day lineups for gibby over a decade ago. Anyways all this bunting and being cautious with pitch counts is clearly what the sabrametricans and management want.

In a low run scoring environment (which is a nice way of saying "when you suck at scoring runs") bunting becomes a more viable option. And it's more exciting to watch, which is something we need now, since we probably won't be competing.