ImageImageImageImageImage

2019 Deadline Thread

Moderators: Alfred, Rhettmatic, Schad

User avatar
Cyrus
Senior Mod - Raptors
Senior Mod - Raptors
Posts: 30,601
And1: 1,208
Joined: Jun 15, 2001
Location: Is taking his talents to South Beach!

Re: 2019 Deadline Thread 

Post#361 » by Cyrus » Tue Jul 30, 2019 3:30 pm

Adrian_05 wrote:
I_Like_Dirt wrote:
Adrian_05 wrote:I mean how much value do you think he has right now? We're a couple days away from the deadline and he's dealing with shoulder inflammation.

I think theres a pretty realistic chance we hold onto him and trade him in the offseason.




Oooooooorrrr, the team is being extra careful with him specifically because they don't want him to risk any serious injuries right before the deadline.

Uhh, he's already injured, which Montoyo confirmed last night.

Read on Twitter


Yeah sucks, from having one of the premium arms closer, whose young and controllable for another year, we were set to get a pretty nice haul, to now definitely getting less in the off season or next year. And who knows how he'll pitch next year.

Man this regime, can't ever sell a guy at his peak, there is always some sort of caveat.
I_Like_Dirt
RealGM
Posts: 26,639
And1: 4,568
Joined: Jul 12, 2003
Location: Boardman gets paid!

Re: 2019 Deadline Thread 

Post#362 » by I_Like_Dirt » Tue Jul 30, 2019 3:37 pm

Cyrus wrote:Man this regime, can't ever sell a guy at his peak, there is always some sort of caveat.


More like people are never happy. People said that they needed to run it back with their aging core and it sounds like Rogers wanted that, too, so they did, and then were vilified for getting crap returns for older, worse, frequently injured players with no remaining team control. Now, Stroman is traded when he's not hurt and fans are mad, too. What Shapiro and Atkins have really been bad at is managing the media/public narrative around what they're doing.
Bucket! Bucket!
phillipmike
Pro Prospect
Posts: 959
And1: 856
Joined: Jan 07, 2012
       

Re: 2019 Deadline Thread 

Post#363 » by phillipmike » Tue Jul 30, 2019 4:14 pm

Read on Twitter
User avatar
vaff87
RealGM
Posts: 21,344
And1: 68,420
Joined: Oct 22, 2003
       

Re: 2019 Deadline Thread 

Post#364 » by vaff87 » Tue Jul 30, 2019 4:17 pm

The idea that Giles trade value is gone because he didn't pitch a couple of days is rather ridiculous.
rotty wrote:Wow
phillipmike
Pro Prospect
Posts: 959
And1: 856
Joined: Jan 07, 2012
       

Re: 2019 Deadline Thread 

Post#365 » by phillipmike » Tue Jul 30, 2019 4:45 pm

vaff87 wrote:The idea that Giles trade value is gone because he didn't pitch a couple of days is rather ridiculous.


https://www.mlb.com/news/ken-giles-elbow-injury-trade-deadline

Ahead of Monday’s win over the Royals, general manager Ross Atkins was asked about the absence of Giles in Sunday’s matchup, to which the GM replied, “It’s not something that we’re concerned about. It’s just that he wasn’t at 100 percent yesterday.”

Following the series-opening victory at Kauffman Stadium, when the team’s closer failed to appear in the bullpen with a save situation looming, manager Charlie Montoyo shared that Giles “is still dealing with some elbow inflammation and he’s working through it.”

When asked how concerning that might be, Montoyo added, “I don’t think it is, to tell you the truth. But if he’s not 100 percent, we’re not going to pitch him.”
I_Like_Dirt
RealGM
Posts: 26,639
And1: 4,568
Joined: Jul 12, 2003
Location: Boardman gets paid!

Re: 2019 Deadline Thread 

Post#366 » by I_Like_Dirt » Tue Jul 30, 2019 4:46 pm

So the Mets move Vargas, in division, for Bossart, who isn't even really a prospect... I can't say I ever understand the Mets.
Bucket! Bucket!
phillipmike
Pro Prospect
Posts: 959
And1: 856
Joined: Jan 07, 2012
       

Re: 2019 Deadline Thread 

Post#367 » by phillipmike » Tue Jul 30, 2019 4:53 pm

I_Like_Dirt wrote:So the Mets move Vargas, in division, for Bossart, who isn't even really a prospect... I can't say I ever understand the Mets.


for a 26 years old catcher, repeating AA, who cant hit above the Mendoza line?

I think i would hang onto a 1 WAR pitcher with control next season rather than gift it to my division rival who i am chasing. Jays should have taken him back in the Stroman deal.
Tanner
Starter
Posts: 2,226
And1: 3,407
Joined: Jul 04, 2016

Re: 2019 Deadline Thread 

Post#368 » by Tanner » Tue Jul 30, 2019 4:56 pm

vaff87 wrote:The idea that Giles trade value is gone because he didn't pitch a couple of days is rather ridiculous.


He's not pitching due to elbow issues. That kinda impacts his value. It's not ridiculous.

Good news is Jays can keep him and trade him in the winter, but value will take a hit.
User avatar
vaff87
RealGM
Posts: 21,344
And1: 68,420
Joined: Oct 22, 2003
       

Re: 2019 Deadline Thread 

Post#369 » by vaff87 » Tue Jul 30, 2019 5:03 pm

Tanner wrote:
vaff87 wrote:The idea that Giles trade value is gone because he didn't pitch a couple of days is rather ridiculous.


He's not pitching due to elbow issues. That kinda impacts his value. It's not ridiculous.

Good news is Jays can keep him and trade him in the winter, but value will take a hit.


Do you think pitchers have completely healthy elbows every time they pitch or something? They're keeping him out as precaution.
rotty wrote:Wow
I_Like_Dirt
RealGM
Posts: 26,639
And1: 4,568
Joined: Jul 12, 2003
Location: Boardman gets paid!

Re: 2019 Deadline Thread 

Post#370 » by I_Like_Dirt » Tue Jul 30, 2019 5:15 pm

phillipmike wrote:for a 26 years old catcher, repeating AA, who cant hit above the Mendoza line?

I think i would hang onto a 1 WAR pitcher with control next season rather than gift it to my division rival who i am chasing. Jays should have taken him back in the Stroman deal.


I'm waiting to see what happens tomorrow. Is there suddenly going to be a flood of trades that teams were waiting until the absolute last second to make? Is it going to be a quiet deadline? Is the price point going to move? Vargas isn't amazing or anything and he's getting on in years but he's still a decent enough starter.

Given the amount of teams who could really use pitching, and the inability to do waiver trades beyond July this year, I'm a little confused at what's going on. Teams really don't seem to be interested in paying anything whatsoever to try and make a push. Trades in the majors don't actually seem to be teams making them at strategic times so much anymore. It's really just a bunch of teams waiting for one of the few trade-happy GMs to come calling on their trading sprees and then taking what they can get in that deal because every other team is holding out. I can get a certain amount of inactivity in the AL where there isn't much of a race to speak of and a few of the teams in the race, particularly the Rays, aren't going to add salary no matter what happens, but the NL is just the logjam of logjams where nobody really seems to be interested in the wild card game and someone is simply going to get in by default. Are teams really going to hope there is somehow going to be a buyout market when waiver trades are gone? I sort of get the impression this is a big part of the league's swing away from veteran players in that teams aren't really interested in trading younger for older so much anymore, even if they're getting the clearly better player.
Bucket! Bucket!
phillipmike
Pro Prospect
Posts: 959
And1: 856
Joined: Jan 07, 2012
       

Re: 2019 Deadline Thread 

Post#371 » by phillipmike » Tue Jul 30, 2019 6:16 pm

I_Like_Dirt wrote:
phillipmike wrote:for a 26 years old catcher, repeating AA, who cant hit above the Mendoza line?

I think i would hang onto a 1 WAR pitcher with control next season rather than gift it to my division rival who i am chasing. Jays should have taken him back in the Stroman deal.


I'm waiting to see what happens tomorrow. Is there suddenly going to be a flood of trades that teams were waiting until the absolute last second to make? Is it going to be a quiet deadline? Is the price point going to move? Vargas isn't amazing or anything and he's getting on in years but he's still a decent enough starter.

Given the amount of teams who could really use pitching, and the inability to do waiver trades beyond July this year, I'm a little confused at what's going on. Teams really don't seem to be interested in paying anything whatsoever to try and make a push. Trades in the majors don't actually seem to be teams making them at strategic times so much anymore. It's really just a bunch of teams waiting for one of the few trade-happy GMs to come calling on their trading sprees and then taking what they can get in that deal because every other team is holding out. I can get a certain amount of inactivity in the AL where there isn't much of a race to speak of and a few of the teams in the race, particularly the Rays, aren't going to add salary no matter what happens, but the NL is just the logjam of logjams where nobody really seems to be interested in the wild card game and someone is simply going to get in by default. Are teams really going to hope there is somehow going to be a buyout market when waiver trades are gone? I sort of get the impression this is a big part of the league's swing away from veteran players in that teams aren't really interested in trading younger for older so much anymore, even if they're getting the clearly better player.


My prediction is there will be a flood of trades tomorrow. Teams dont have the luxury of the August deadline, its a buyer's market so many buyers will buy and buy a lot. Sellers are trying to hold out for more value but they wont get it. I suspect a lot of deals at 3pm and after.
phillipmike
Pro Prospect
Posts: 959
And1: 856
Joined: Jan 07, 2012
       

Re: 2019 Deadline Thread 

Post#372 » by phillipmike » Tue Jul 30, 2019 6:32 pm

Read on Twitter
dagger
RealGM
Posts: 38,458
And1: 10,990
Joined: Aug 19, 2002
         

Re: 2019 Deadline Thread 

Post#373 » by dagger » Tue Jul 30, 2019 6:37 pm

Hatch is #29 on MLBPipeline's Cubs' top 30. He's been higher, but seems to be fading. A third round pick in 2016,


Scouting grades: Fastball: 55 | Slider: 55 | Changeup: 50 | Control: 45 | Overall: 40

Hatch missed 2015 with a sprained elbow ligament that didn't require surgery, then returned to lead Oklahoma State to the 2016 College World Series by working 23 straight shutout innings during the NCAA tournament. Chicago's top pick (third round) that June, he made his pro debut in high Class A the next year. He has been durable in two pro seasons but has had some unexpected issues with his control and pitch sequencing.

In college, Hatch's two main pitches were a low-90s two-seam fastball and a low-80s slider. The Cubs wanted him to focus on using a four-seamer and changeup to combat left-handers, but he took that too far in 2018 and got hit when he relied too much on the straighter of his two fastballs. On the positive side, his changeup was his best offering at times last year, and he showed the ability to sit at 93-94 mph and touch 96 with his four-seamer.

Hatch also has had difficulty avoiding barrels because his control has been spotty. He pounded the strike zone when he was the Big 12 Conference pitcher of the year in 2016 but finished second in the Double-A Southern League with 61 walks a year ago. He has better stuff than most of the system's starting pitcher prospects, but he could wind up as a middle reliever if he can't improve at locating and mixing his offerings.

2019
SOU

Team W L ERA G GS SV IP H HR BB K AVG WHIP GO/AO
TNS (AA) 4 10 4.59 21 21 0 100.0 104 13 37 93 .274 1.41 0.85
Minors 4 10 4.59 21 21 0 100.0 104 13 37 93 .274 1.41 0.85
2019 will never be forgotten because FLAGS FLY FOREVER
I_Like_Dirt
RealGM
Posts: 26,639
And1: 4,568
Joined: Jul 12, 2003
Location: Boardman gets paid!

Re: 2019 Deadline Thread 

Post#374 » by I_Like_Dirt » Tue Jul 30, 2019 7:01 pm

phillipmike wrote:My prediction is there will be a flood of trades tomorrow. Teams dont have the luxury of the August deadline, its a buyer's market so many buyers will buy and buy a lot. Sellers are trying to hold out for more value but they wont get it. I suspect a lot of deals at 3pm and after.


Is it really a buyer's market, though? There aren't a lot of potential sellers there really, and there are quite a few potential buyers. Most of the sellers seem to only be sellers in the event that they can actually get a more traditional value and most of the buyers have been waiting on their hands. I'm thinking that it's going to be a relatively quiet deadline because few of the would-be buyers actually want to give up anything significant for a playoff push. This very well could partly be an extension of what we've seen in free agency where teams are being much more cautious with what they give up for veteran players. I guess we will see.
Bucket! Bucket!
dagger
RealGM
Posts: 38,458
And1: 10,990
Joined: Aug 19, 2002
         

Re: 2019 Deadline Thread 

Post#375 » by dagger » Tue Jul 30, 2019 7:08 pm

vaff87 wrote:
Tanner wrote:
vaff87 wrote:The idea that Giles trade value is gone because he didn't pitch a couple of days is rather ridiculous.


He's not pitching due to elbow issues. That kinda impacts his value. It's not ridiculous.

Good news is Jays can keep him and trade him in the winter, but value will take a hit.


Do you think pitchers have completely healthy elbows every time they pitch or something? They're keeping him out as precaution.


Well, bad news. Although he isn't seriously injured, he isn't going to pitch again before the deadline. There is a minor issue, and this seems to kill his deadline value.

Read on Twitter
2019 will never be forgotten because FLAGS FLY FOREVER
Tanner
Starter
Posts: 2,226
And1: 3,407
Joined: Jul 04, 2016

Re: 2019 Deadline Thread 

Post#376 » by Tanner » Tue Jul 30, 2019 7:11 pm

vaff87 wrote:
Tanner wrote:
vaff87 wrote:The idea that Giles trade value is gone because he didn't pitch a couple of days is rather ridiculous.


He's not pitching due to elbow issues. That kinda impacts his value. It's not ridiculous.

Good news is Jays can keep him and trade him in the winter, but value will take a hit.


Do you think pitchers have completely healthy elbows every time they pitch or something? They're keeping him out as precaution.


He’s had a lingering elbow injury for over a month. It may not be bad enough for a DL stint but him not pitching is a sign that he’s not 100%. It absolutely impacts his trade value. If Stroman was being held out of starts because of elbow discomfort, the Mets deal would have never happened.
phillipmike
Pro Prospect
Posts: 959
And1: 856
Joined: Jan 07, 2012
       

Re: 2019 Deadline Thread 

Post#377 » by phillipmike » Tue Jul 30, 2019 7:13 pm

I_Like_Dirt wrote:
phillipmike wrote:My prediction is there will be a flood of trades tomorrow. Teams dont have the luxury of the August deadline, its a buyer's market so many buyers will buy and buy a lot. Sellers are trying to hold out for more value but they wont get it. I suspect a lot of deals at 3pm and after.


Is it really a buyer's market, though? There aren't a lot of potential sellers there really, and there are quite a few potential buyers. Most of the sellers seem to only be sellers in the event that they can actually get a more traditional value and most of the buyers have been waiting on their hands. I'm thinking that it's going to be a relatively quiet deadline because few of the would-be buyers actually want to give up anything significant for a playoff push. This very well could partly be an extension of what we've seen in free agency where teams are being much more cautious with what they give up for veteran players. I guess we will see.


To me its been a buyers market since 2017. Only real prospects that were moved were Archer (potentially 4 years of control) and Machado (one of the best players in the game).

Other deadlines featured guys like JD Martinez (went for Dawel Lugo, AA trade him in 2015 for Cliff Pennington), Happ, Hamels, Darvish, and Moustakas went for very little based on past deadlines. Seems like only guys with 2 or more years of control get the top top prospects back, if that. I think gone are the days you will see Torres for a few months of Chapman, Manaea for a few months of Zobrist, Norris/Boyds for Price... Prospects hold much more value nowadays and vets even less. So to me thats a buyer's market - less buyers are buying because its a young man's game but when they want to buy, the contenders/buyers dont pay much.
dagger
RealGM
Posts: 38,458
And1: 10,990
Joined: Aug 19, 2002
         

Re: 2019 Deadline Thread 

Post#378 » by dagger » Tue Jul 30, 2019 7:21 pm

Read on Twitter
2019 will never be forgotten because FLAGS FLY FOREVER
User avatar
Wo1verine
2015 Beat the Commish Champion
Posts: 16,392
And1: 10,836
Joined: Apr 23, 2010
     

Re: 2019 Deadline Thread 

Post#379 » by Wo1verine » Tue Jul 30, 2019 7:32 pm

Giles pretty much saying you don't wanna sign me F you i'll make sure you get the worst return possible by leaking my injury info.
Image
BrunoSkull
User avatar
bluerap23
Veteran
Posts: 2,696
And1: 2,334
Joined: Aug 15, 2012
   

Re: 2019 Deadline Thread 

Post#380 » by bluerap23 » Tue Jul 30, 2019 7:45 pm

Wo1verine wrote:Giles pretty much saying you don't wanna sign me F you i'll make sure you get the worst return possible by leaking my injury info.


Kyle Lowry move. Gangster
Image

Return to Toronto Blue Jays