Vlad Jr. Jays @ Eloy Jimenez ChiSox, May 16-19

[Black Watch]

Series Thread, better late than never.

No idea who will start—and who cares—but get your comments in as each game unfolds.

Top two hitting prospects coming into this year were Vlad and Eloy, so should be interesting to see what comparisons, if any, there are between them.

[BigLeagueChew]

Late inning bunting battle, exciting.

[SharoneWright]

Only 10 games back now...

[Lateral Quicks]

If you enjoy watching great pitching lines, the Jays are a must-follow team this year - so long as you root for the other team.

Two hits last night. Feels like that's happened every other night this year. I wouldn't won't to be the rookie hitting coach right now - pretty much everyone (not named Sogard) is significantly underperforming expectations.

[Tanner]

The only hitters doing "well" right now are vets (Sogard, Galvis, Smoak, Grichuk), and the definition of well is used loosely since this is the 2019 Jays I'm talking about. If young hitters are not only struggling but looking like they don't belong in the bigs, then that's more than partly on the hitting coach. It could be a talent issue with some (like McKinney, Teoscar), but everyone?

I've generally been ok with Shapiro and Atkins, but man has Atkins swung and missed on practically everything since 2017 or so.

[Trilogy]

The only hitters doing "well" right now are vets (Sogard, Galvis, Smoak, Grichuk), and the definition of well is used loosely since this is the 2019 Jays I'm talking about. If young hitters are not only struggling but looking like they don't belong in the bigs, then that's more than partly on the hitting coach. It could be a talent issue with some (like McKinney, Teoscar), but everyone?

I've generally been ok with Shapiro and Atkins, but man has Atkins swung and missed on practically everything since 2017 or so.

I'm so-so on them overall but I'm not really a fan of the type of fringy prospect types they seem to target. Basically guys with some power in their bat but who don't really have a secondary skill to back that up. Grichuk is really the only one that does (Good defence). But guys like Hernandez/Drury/McKinney don't do anything outside of hitting the ball hard now and again. Low BB%/High K% and bad defence. Tellez was already in the system but he's another like this. Gurriel also. Blaming the hitting coach is a lazy view to be honest. All these guys just might not be good.

Part of this year was seeing if any of these fringy types they acquired would break out. It's all looking bad at the moment on that front so far. I wish they focus a bit more on the K/BB ratio of guys personally.

[dagger]

Another way to look at this season is that if the 2020 entry draft were held this morning, we'd pick fourth. We're within striking distance second overall. Miami probably has the first pick locked up already.

[dagger]

The only hitters doing "well" right now are vets (Sogard, Galvis, Smoak, Grichuk), and the definition of well is used loosely since this is the 2019 Jays I'm talking about. If young hitters are not only struggling but looking like they don't belong in the bigs, then that's more than partly on the hitting coach. It could be a talent issue with some (like McKinney, Teoscar), but everyone?

I've generally been ok with Shapiro and Atkins, but man has Atkins swung and missed on practically everything since 2017 or so.

I'm so-so on them overall but I'm not really a fan of the type of fringy prospect types they seem to target. Basically guys with some power in their bat but who don't really have a secondary skill to back that up. Grichuk is really the only one that does (Good defence). But guys like Hernandez/Drury/McKinney don't do anything outside of hitting the ball hard now and again. Low BB%/High K% and bad defence. Tellez was already in the system but he's another like this. Gurriel also. Blaming the hitting coach is a lazy view to be honest. All these guys just might not be good.

Part of this year was seeing if any of these fringy types they acquired would break out. It's all looking bad at the moment on that front so far. I wish they focus a bit more on the K/BB ratio of guys personally.

In terms of position players, I am inclined to agree. Thornton might still work as a back of the rotation starter, and maybe or two of the other pitching acquisitions might slide into a secondary bullpen role, but the future position players are going to come from internal development.

[Schad]

Jansen's very much a concern, as he's been the worst of them, and is the only one who was a significant prospect. His defense actually grades out very well thus far; he has been one of the best pitch-framers and blockers in baseball. But, like, you gotta hit.

[manjusaka]

Catcher is a position that the defense is being emphasized more then hitting. Guys like Jeff Mathis still has a job really says something. As for hitting I think our overall philosophy my has some flaws.

From Grichuck, Hernandez, McKinney, Drury, to the minor Smith, to Conine.

They all have swing and miss.

[Black Watch]

Another way to look at this season is that if the 2020 entry draft were held this morning, we'd pick fourth. We're within striking distance second overall. Miami probably has the first pick locked up already.

Baltimore

[Tanner]

The only hitters doing "well" right now are vets (Sogard, Galvis, Smoak, Grichuk), and the definition of well is used loosely since this is the 2019 Jays I'm talking about. If young hitters are not only struggling but looking like they don't belong in the bigs, then that's more than partly on the hitting coach. It could be a talent issue with some (like McKinney, Teoscar), but everyone?

I've generally been ok with Shapiro and Atkins, but man has Atkins swung and missed on practically everything since 2017 or so.

I'm so-so on them overall but I'm not really a fan of the type of fringy prospect types they seem to target. Basically guys with some power in their bat but who don't really have a secondary skill to back that up. Grichuk is really the only one that does (Good defence). But guys like Hernandez/Drury/McKinney don't do anything outside of hitting the ball hard now and again. Low BB%/High K% and bad defence. Tellez was already in the system but he's another like this. Gurriel also. Blaming the hitting coach is a lazy view to be honest. All these guys just might not be good.

Part of this year was seeing if any of these fringy types they acquired would break out. It's all looking bad at the moment on that front so far. I wish they focus a bit more on the K/BB ratio of guys personally.

Yeah I agree. I don't know why Atkins is so in love with the high K, low BB, exit velocity players who can't play D. He got one right in the Smoak extension, but he's been wrong on practically everyone else. Even my view of Grichuk has dropped a bit because I don't think he's good enough to have given $50mil to given his performance (career) so far, and low BB% players with high K's are the guys I trust the least as they age.

[TheDunc]

Jansen's very much a concern, as he's been the worst of them, and is the only one who was a significant prospect. His defense actually grades out very well thus far; he has been one of the best pitch-framers and blockers in baseball. But, like, you gotta hit.

Jansen is the one im disappointed with most, Trent Thorton looks like a better hitter then him this year

[Schad]

Yeah I agree. I don't know why Atkins is so in love with the high K, low BB, exit velocity players who can't play D. He got one right in the Smoak extension, but he's been wrong on practically everyone else. Even my view of Grichuk has dropped a bit because I don't think he's good enough to have given $50mil to given his performance (career) so far, and low BB% players with high K's are the guys I trust the least as they age.

Mostly, I suspect, it's because they have the most upside if they figure things out, and we weren't in a position to be too picky if seeking upside. I personally don't love it -- I didn't and don't see Drury ever amounting to a hell of a lot -- but I can see the logic if more well-rounded prospects aren't on offer.

My feelings on Grichuk are fairly well-known, but he's not bad value for the deal. May never be particularly good value, but his deal's probably quite movable after 2020 if he continues to be average overall, so long as he can remain at least a tolerably below-average CF.

[BigLeagueChew]

2B Eric Sogard L
3B V. Guerrero Jr. R
1B Justin Smoak S
DH Rowdy Tellez L
CF R. Grichuk R
SS F. Galvis S
RF B. Drury R
LF B. McKinney L
C Luke Maile R

[BigLeagueChew]

Nova's curveball isn't what it used to be, only throwing it roughly %15 of the time now rather than %25-30 in his yankee days. The rest mostly sinker and changeups. Think that means the hitters can focus on something straighter and nothing that really surprises them, like the curveball going at you that ends up being a strike or the outside strike-to-ball curve, almost don't have to worry about it.

[YelloC]

Aaron(run support)Sanchez, what are you going to do with it when you get it?

[BigLeagueChew]

vlad #3, off garcia's glove

[rapstarter]

lol. lucky

damn it's pouring

[BigLeagueChew]

Sanchez out, blister, fingernail, something something.