ImageImageImageImageImage

Stroman to Mets for Kay, Woods Richardson

Moderators: Rhettmatic, Alfred, Schad

User avatar
Adrian_05
RealGM
Posts: 17,125
And1: 4,328
Joined: Aug 22, 2012
     

Re: Stroman to Mets for Kay, Woods Richardson 

Post#461 » by Adrian_05 » Tue Sep 24, 2019 9:28 pm

Skin Blues wrote:
Adrian_05 wrote:This FO really loves their mediocre outfielders.

Anyways, of course Stroman would be starting for the Yankees in the playoffs. Who's Cashman trying to fool? :lol:

Paxton/Tanaka/German/Severino would be the rotation they were counting on for the playoffs. With Sabathia and Happ as long-men already in the bullpen. Obviously you can't count on the health of all those guys. And it might be a bight hyperbolic to say Stroman woudl be in the bullpen. But if things went to plan, Stroman would only have been a marginal improvement for the rotation. Hard to count on German slapping his girlfriend, which is the reason they could really use Stroman right now.

You'd really put German in there over Stroman?
phillipmike
Pro Prospect
Posts: 995
And1: 880
Joined: Jan 07, 2012
       

Re: Stroman to Mets for Kay, Woods Richardson 

Post#462 » by phillipmike » Tue Sep 24, 2019 11:59 pm

Stroman has great results in the playoffs and has a higher WAR than any other Yankee pitcher with the exception of Paxton who he is tied with.

German is a rookie and Paxton has yet to pitch in the playoffs.

Stroman would definitely be in the Yankees playoff rotation. Cashman just doing damage control.

Say what you want about Stroman but this guy is a big game pitcher.
User avatar
Schad
Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 49,831
And1: 10,963
Joined: Feb 08, 2006
Location: The Goat Rodeo
     

Re: Stroman to Mets for Kay, Woods Richardson 

Post#463 » by Schad » Wed Sep 25, 2019 12:44 am

German's also, while otherwise a good pitcher, seriously prone to surrendering home runs. Check his splits against good and bad teams...teams above .500 had a 267 ISO against him this year, 232 career. I'd be pretty hesitant about starting him in an important playoff game.
**** your asterisk.
User avatar
Skin Blues
Veteran
Posts: 2,564
And1: 829
Joined: Nov 24, 2010

Re: Stroman to Mets for Kay, Woods Richardson 

Post#464 » by Skin Blues » Wed Sep 25, 2019 12:46 pm

Adrian_05 wrote:
Skin Blues wrote:
Adrian_05 wrote:This FO really loves their mediocre outfielders.

Anyways, of course Stroman would be starting for the Yankees in the playoffs. Who's Cashman trying to fool? :lol:

Paxton/Tanaka/German/Severino would be the rotation they were counting on for the playoffs. With Sabathia and Happ as long-men already in the bullpen. Obviously you can't count on the health of all those guys. And it might be a bight hyperbolic to say Stroman woudl be in the bullpen. But if things went to plan, Stroman would only have been a marginal improvement for the rotation. Hard to count on German slapping his girlfriend, which is the reason they could really use Stroman right now.

You'd really put German in there over Stroman?

No, I definitely wouldn't. But if that's the guy who is your #4 starter in the playoffs - a guy who might make 1 or 2 starts, if you're lucky - then I don't know if it's worth giving up Frazier for Stroman.

As Schad (and Stroman, in hilarious fashion) have mentioned, the Yankees starters are very prone to homers. And these days, I don't think that gets as much attention as it should. Keeping the ball on the ground is all of a sudden a huge asset. Unless MLB switches the balls again, which seems like a foregone conclusion, we just don't know what the effects will be. But for now, a guy with a high groundball rate even if the K% isn't quite there, is very desirable. It's why I think Zeuch is a bit more valuable to us than most people would think when looking at the peripherals, which are completely underwhelming.
dagger
RealGM
Posts: 38,551
And1: 11,115
Joined: Aug 19, 2002
         

Re: Stroman to Mets for Kay, Woods Richardson 

Post#465 » by dagger » Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:19 pm

Skin Blues wrote:
Adrian_05 wrote:
Skin Blues wrote:Paxton/Tanaka/German/Severino would be the rotation they were counting on for the playoffs. With Sabathia and Happ as long-men already in the bullpen. Obviously you can't count on the health of all those guys. And it might be a bight hyperbolic to say Stroman woudl be in the bullpen. But if things went to plan, Stroman would only have been a marginal improvement for the rotation. Hard to count on German slapping his girlfriend, which is the reason they could really use Stroman right now.

You'd really put German in there over Stroman?

No, I definitely wouldn't. But if that's the guy who is your #4 starter in the playoffs - a guy who might make 1 or 2 starts, if you're lucky - then I don't know if it's worth giving up Frazier for Stroman.

As Schad (and Stroman, in hilarious fashion) have mentioned, the Yankees starters are very prone to homers. And these days, I don't think that gets as much attention as it should. Keeping the ball on the ground is all of a sudden a huge asset. Unless MLB switches the balls again, which seems like a foregone conclusion, we just don't know what the effects will be. But for now, a guy with a high groundball rate even if the K% isn't quite there, is very desirable. It's why I think Zeuch is a bit more valuable to us than most people would think when looking at the peripherals, which are completely underwhelming.


If a guy has a good low-in-the-zone fastball, a couple of decent breaking and change of speed pitches, you can probably beat most hitters. I agree that Zeuch is worth watching, especially if he can limit his BBs. Until the game changes, we have every Tom, Dick and Harry swinging for the fences, and every second Tom, Dick and Harry being defended by the shift. But I'm cool with any pitching staff next season that doesn't include a high usage reliever with an ERA over 8.00 (Brock Stewart).
2019 will never be forgotten because FLAGS FLY FOREVER
User avatar
Schad
Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 49,831
And1: 10,963
Joined: Feb 08, 2006
Location: The Goat Rodeo
     

Re: Stroman to Mets for Kay, Woods Richardson 

Post#466 » by Schad » Wed Sep 25, 2019 7:51 pm

Skin Blues wrote:No, I definitely wouldn't. But if that's the guy who is your #4 starter in the playoffs - a guy who might make 1 or 2 starts, if you're lucky - then I don't know if it's worth giving up Frazier for Stroman.

As Schad (and Stroman, in hilarious fashion) have mentioned, the Yankees starters are very prone to homers. And these days, I don't think that gets as much attention as it should. Keeping the ball on the ground is all of a sudden a huge asset. Unless MLB switches the balls again, which seems like a foregone conclusion, we just don't know what the effects will be. But for now, a guy with a high groundball rate even if the K% isn't quite there, is very desirable. It's why I think Zeuch is a bit more valuable to us than most people would think when looking at the peripherals, which are completely underwhelming.


If you can keep it on the ground. One of the oddities: while sinkers generate more groundballs, when they do get hit in the air, they go farther:

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/the-sinker-paradox/

Definitely doesn't completely negate the value of sinkers, but it's a large part of the reason that, at a time when grounders have never been more valuable, teams are turning away from the pitch that generates the most grounders.
**** your asterisk.
dagger
RealGM
Posts: 38,551
And1: 11,115
Joined: Aug 19, 2002
         

Re: Stroman to Mets for Kay, Woods Richardson 

Post#467 » by dagger » Fri Sep 27, 2019 5:34 pm

Skin Blues wrote:No, I definitely wouldn't. But if that's the guy who is your #4 starter in the playoffs - a guy who might make 1 or 2 starts, if you're lucky - then I don't know if it's worth giving up Frazier for Stroman.


I'm happy we didn't trade for Frazier who just sounds like a half dozen other replacement level caucasian position players this team has traded for, because they seem to tick off some kind of analytics box.

https://elitesportsny.com/2019/09/25/new-york-yankees-clint-frazier-hasnt-done-enough-to-earn-october-spot/
Frazier was recalled by the Yankees on Sept. 1 and has played in just eleven games since his promotion. During those games, Frazier has recorded a trio of doubles, one home run, four RBI, .188 ISO, .190 BABIP, an awful 29 wRC+ and a hitting line of just .156/.182/.344/.526. The Yankees’ outfielder has also further struggled to get on-base since arriving back to the major leagues. Frazier has created an even worse walk rate of 3% and a 30.3% strikeout rate since the start of September.

The Yankees are also still concerned with Frazier’s fielding issues on fly balls in the outfield as well. While with the Yankees, Frazier has spent the majority of his time in right field. Playing 259.2 innings in short right field at Yankee Stadium this season, Frazier has committed three errors and recorded a -6 DRS, -5 UZR and a -26 UZR/150.
2019 will never be forgotten because FLAGS FLY FOREVER
I_Like_Dirt
RealGM
Posts: 27,186
And1: 4,875
Joined: Jul 12, 2003
Location: Boardman gets paid!

Re: Stroman to Mets for Kay, Woods Richardson 

Post#468 » by I_Like_Dirt » Fri Sep 27, 2019 9:22 pm

I just think Yankees the prospects the Yankees routinely leak in trade discussions tend to be way overrated in the first place. The Yankees don't often trade the prospects they like the most but hype up the other guys and don't trade them unless some sucker comes along to really pay up. Frazier gets ranked highly but I've never been so sure about him. He might be okay but I don't see any real wow factor there. When was the last time the Yankees gave up a prospect that actually panned out?
Bucket! Bucket!
User avatar
Skin Blues
Veteran
Posts: 2,564
And1: 829
Joined: Nov 24, 2010

Re: Stroman to Mets for Kay, Woods Richardson 

Post#469 » by Skin Blues » Fri Sep 27, 2019 10:43 pm

dagger wrote:
Skin Blues wrote:No, I definitely wouldn't. But if that's the guy who is your #4 starter in the playoffs - a guy who might make 1 or 2 starts, if you're lucky - then I don't know if it's worth giving up Frazier for Stroman.


I'm happy we didn't trade for Frazier who just sounds like a half dozen other replacement level caucasian position players this team has traded for, because they seem to tick off some kind of analytics box.

https://elitesportsny.com/2019/09/25/new-york-yankees-clint-frazier-hasnt-done-enough-to-earn-october-spot/
Frazier was recalled by the Yankees on Sept. 1 and has played in just eleven games since his promotion. During those games, Frazier has recorded a trio of doubles, one home run, four RBI, .188 ISO, .190 BABIP, an awful 29 wRC+ and a hitting line of just .156/.182/.344/.526. The Yankees’ outfielder has also further struggled to get on-base since arriving back to the major leagues. Frazier has created an even worse walk rate of 3% and a 30.3% strikeout rate since the start of September.

The Yankees are also still concerned with Frazier’s fielding issues on fly balls in the outfield as well. While with the Yankees, Frazier has spent the majority of his time in right field. Playing 259.2 innings in short right field at Yankee Stadium this season, Frazier has committed three errors and recorded a -6 DRS, -5 UZR and a -26 UZR/150.

Would it be better if he was black?

And instead of an arbitrary 11 games in September, why not an arbitrary 48 games from April 6 to June 14 where he put up a 131 wRC+??

Anyway... I don't think he'd have been a better return than what we got from the Mets, but 11 games with expanded rosters and his skin colour hardly seem relevant.
Tanner
Starter
Posts: 2,384
And1: 3,567
Joined: Jul 04, 2016

Re: Stroman to Mets for Kay, Woods Richardson 

Post#470 » by Tanner » Sat Sep 28, 2019 12:03 am

Whether they are black or white is irrelevant, but targeting players whose only skill is hitting the ball hard and/or in the air (literally no other developed skill) in an era where Eric Sogard can hit 13 home runs is pretty damn stupid.
User avatar
Schad
Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 49,831
And1: 10,963
Joined: Feb 08, 2006
Location: The Goat Rodeo
     

Re: Stroman to Mets for Kay, Woods Richardson 

Post#471 » by Schad » Sat Sep 28, 2019 12:35 am

I think you all might be reading a bit too deeply into a tongue-in-cheek comment. I have it on good authority that dagger is "Jim Nantz reading the shipping report" levels of caucasity.
**** your asterisk.
Black Watch
Pro Prospect
Posts: 750
And1: 311
Joined: Apr 23, 2014
Contact:
   

Re: Stroman to Mets for Kay, Woods Richardson 

Post#472 » by Black Watch » Sat Sep 28, 2019 9:17 pm

dagger wrote:I'm happy we didn't trade for Frazier who just sounds like a half dozen other replacement level caucasian position players this team has traded for, because they seem to tick off some kind of analytics box.

:crazy:

Schad wrote:I think you all might be reading a bit too deeply into a tongue-in-cheek comment. I have it on good authority that dagger is "Jim Nantz reading the shipping report" levels of caucasity.

Unless you're calling him a cuck, Dagger's race is immaterial.

Let's just all stop talking about race.
Yogi Stewart is human garbage.

Return to Toronto Blue Jays