Stroman to Mets for Kay, Woods Richardson

[Schad]

As you wonder about the quality of Kay also remember that only 20% of all prospects traded at the deadline since 2013 have any major league impact anyway.

So we traded a sure thing with a year of control for a 20% shot at 103rd ranked talent. Lol.



https://www.baseballamerica.com/stories/prospects-traded-at-deadline-rarely-make-big-league-impact/

The Happ for Drury trade sucked too.

Yeah. A YEAR OF CONTROL. One. A year in which we aren't going to be winning anyway. That year of control isn't worth much of anything to us.

Also, the thing about prospect rankings? They're liable to change quickly, particularly for players in the lower minors. I'm not head-over-heels for this return (the Kay part of it, primarily), but SWR is posting monstrous peripherals as an 18 year old in full season ball; there aren't a lot of prospects with his swing-and-miss stuff and control at that age. Dude has a FIP of 2.55...Pearson has a FIP of 2.55 in AA, for what it's worth. That he isn't cracking the top 100 is mostly a product of his level and smallish sample; if he does this next year, he will be very highly-regarded.

[polo007]

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[BigLeagueChew]

Jays avoid a not fun arbitration possibility in 2020, he's a FA in 2021, whos going to give up a top player for years to come knowing that but it's not an awful return.

[The_Hater]

Kay is 24 and struggling badly in AAA. W-R looks like a quality prospect but only 17, so very much a lottery ticket.

I dunno - seems a bit light for 1.5 years control of Stroman.

Kay was also dominant in AA this season with a much bigger sample size. His BABIP in AAA has been unlucky and a bad HR rate has skewed his ERA. He’s generally very good at avoiding the long ball.

And Richardson throws gas and misses bats, his potential looks extremely high.

People also need to stop glueing themselves to the top 100 prospects list like that’s some universal truth of who the best trade chips are. That’s just one website’ opinion.

[ratul]

What a speculative trade. Another lotto ticket deal. Great - for a guy who wanted to play here with 1.5 years of control and still young. What a nonsensical trade. Just one of the many made by Shatkins. I think Shapiro was hired partly because a) he was portrayed in Moneyball and b) he went to an ivy league school. Well, you know who also went to an Ivy league school? Bryan EFFING colangelo.

[polo007]

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[vaff87]

This trade is really perplexing from the Mets perspective. What in the name of God are they doing?

[The_Hater]

This deal makes no sense unless a third team somehow is involved.

If this is the best they could do this year than screw it! Let the fans enjoy Stro’s pitching the rest of the year and move him next year in the hopes that someone tops this because this is nothing from the looks of it. Not hard to beat nothing.

Stro still has good years left. Has a WAR ranked 17th of pitchers. Has a year of control left. And he’s from there! You put them over the barrel for that!

Atkins is garbage and all hype.

You barely follow baseball, know next to nothing about the 2 prospects but have decided it’s a terrible trade and the GM is garbage. Classic. Meanwhile Mets fans are in an uproar because of the 2 prospects they just surrendered.

Stroman needed to be moved now. Wait another 12 months and he’s still pitching well and he has less value, and he slips and has another bad season as he did in 2018, and he has zero trade value. That’s exactly what happened when ownership wouldn’t allow previous vets like Donaldson and Estrada to be moved a year+ before their contracts expired and yet now you’re here arguing the opposite? Ridiculous.

[vaff87]

Kay is a spin rate guy. Apparently his fastball and curveball both have impressive spin rates.

[Schad]

This trade is really perplexing from the Mets perspective. What in the name of God are they doing?

I'm kinda in awe of how bad Brodie van Wagenen is at this. As Buster Olney pointed out, Stroman's a groundball pitcher. He's now pitching in front of the worst infield defense in the majors.

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[So_Fresh]

This trade is really perplexing from the Mets perspective. What in the name of God are they doing?

I'd say more perplexing from the Jays perspective. I think we got fleeced. The Mets won this trade. Should have got more and better prospects in return for Stroman who is (arguably) one of the better starting pitchers in the Majors. Remember he's only 27. The Mets are in a wild card race and they have him for this year and next season. (Arb year 4)

[Ado05]

Jays really should've waited a couple days if this is the best deal they could get.

Im surprised a team with actual championship aspirations didnt step up and pay the price.

[ratul]

This deal makes no sense unless a third team somehow is involved.

If this is the best they could do this year than screw it! Let the fans enjoy Stro’s pitching the rest of the year and move him next year in the hopes that someone tops this because this is nothing from the looks of it. Not hard to beat nothing.

Stro still has good years left. Has a WAR ranked 17th of pitchers. Has a year of control left. And he’s from there! You put them over the barrel for that!

Atkins is garbage and all hype.

You barely follow baseball, know next to nothing about the 2 prospects but have decided it’s a terrible trade and the GM is garbage. Classic. Meanwhile Mets fans are in an uproar because of the 2 prospects they just surrendered.

Stroman needed to be moved now. Wait another 12 months and he’s still pitching well and he has less value, and he slips and has another bad season as he did in 2018, and he has zero trade value. That’s exactly what happened when ownership wouldn’t allow previous vets like Donaldson and Estrada to be moved a year+ before their contracts expired and yet now you’re here arguing the opposite? Ridiculous.

Bro, no offense, but this is weak. To remind - we have a president who had four winning seasons out of 19 whilst in Cleveland. He is awful.

[vaff87]

This trade is really perplexing from the Mets perspective. What in the name of God are they doing?

I'm kinda in awe of how bad Brodie van Wagenen is at this. As Buster Olney pointed out, Stroman's a groundball pitcher. He's now pitching in front of the worst infield defense in the majors.

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Heard the Mets are going to bring back the 99 Mets infield defense. Age seems to align with what they’re going for, too.

[Sanyo]

Hate this trade for the jays

Gave up an ace for really nothing. This is crap!

[So_Fresh]

This deal makes no sense unless a third team somehow is involved.

If this is the best they could do this year than screw it! Let the fans enjoy Stro’s pitching the rest of the year and move him next year in the hopes that someone tops this because this is nothing from the looks of it. Not hard to beat nothing.

Stro still has good years left. Has a WAR ranked 17th of pitchers. Has a year of control left. And he’s from there! You put them over the barrel for that!

Atkins is garbage and all hype.

Couldn't have said it any better myself and Atkins is garbage indeed!

[So_Fresh]

Jays really should've waited a couple days if this is the best deal they could get.

Im surprised a team with actual championship aspirations didnt step up and pay the price.

Probably asking price was too high. We should have held onto him for this year and trade him next season, or extend him for 3 to 4 more years. He's only 27. Still perplexed at this trade by the Jays.

[The_Hater]

Hate this trade for the jays

Gave up an ace for really nothing. This is crap!

Stroman isn’t an ace, unless you were sleeping through the entire 2018 season.

Both of these prospects are highly regarded.

Other than those 3 small details, excellent point.

[So_Fresh]

Hate this trade for the jays

Gave up an ace for really nothing. This is crap!

Stroman isn’t an ace, unless you were sleeping through the entire 2018 season.

Both of these prospects are highly regarded.

Other than those 3 small details, excellent point.

LOL apparently you havent been following Stroman this year and how good he is. You probably hating cause you don't like him as an individual. Forget about the win and loss record cause this team can't score any runs. My grandmother (who has been dead for 10 years btw.) could hit better than this sack of **** lineup Shatkins has put together. Just imagine if they did?? He'd be right at the top in wins in this leauge and a Cy Young candidate.

[Schad]

This trade is really perplexing from the Mets perspective. What in the name of God are they doing?

I'd say more perplexing from the Jays perspective. I think we got fleeced. The Mets won this trade. Should have got more and better prospects in return for Stroman who is (arguably) one of the better starting pitchers in the Majors.

Again, keep in mind that there are two things that go into prospect rankings: pedigree and performance. With low-minors prospects who weren't top draft picks/big-money IFAs, there's usually some lag before they start cracking the rankings. The rankings are fundamentally conservative (even BA's, which often aren't conservative enough) when it comes to pop-up prospects...we see the same thing in the draft every year. We saw it most notably with another former Jays prospect, Noah Syndergaard, who had a tonne of helium and was a perfectly reasonable comp rounder, but was rated something like 150th.

As an example, Bo Bichette was a 2nd rounder, like SWR. He opened eyes as an 18 year old, in a small sample, by posting an OPS of 1.182 and looking very much like a pro hitter. He got rave reviews from most publications. He was not, however, rated in the top 100 by MLBPipeline, or Baseball America, or Baseball Prospectus. Yet at the same time, if someone had offered us a 23 year old 4th-starter type who was a fringe top 100, I'd imagine that we'd have turned the deal down. And with good reason.

I'm just pleased, with SWR at least, that we went for a piece that has a very high ceiling, rather than someone safer who was deemed to be close to the majors.