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Joe Biagini, Aaron Sanchez traded to Astros for Derek Fisher

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Re: Joe Biagini, Aaron Sanchez traded to Astros for Derek Fisher 

Post#161 » by SharoneWright » Thu Aug 1, 2019 12:43 am

Schad wrote:It definitely isn't a contending lineup, but we aren't contending.


You're forgetting about our data revolution and new emphasis on analytics! The Tampa Bay Way is not limited by lineups!
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Re: Joe Biagini, Aaron Sanchez traded to Astros for Derek Fisher 

Post#162 » by vaff87 » Thu Aug 1, 2019 12:49 am

JaysRule15 wrote:Vlad, Bichette and Gurriel are probably the only locks I'd have in a contending lineup. Jansen and Biggio have the potential, but their offensive numbers would need to improve. Grichuk, Hernandez, Smoak, etc. all need to be eventually replaced over the next couple of years.


Biggio and Jansen are only rookies, tho. They’ve both shown flashes.
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Re: Joe Biagini, Aaron Sanchez traded to Astros for Derek Fisher 

Post#163 » by Metallikid » Thu Aug 1, 2019 1:09 am

JaysRule15 wrote:Vlad, Bichette and Gurriel are probably the only locks I'd have in a contending lineup. Jansen and Biggio have the potential, but their offensive numbers would need to improve. Grichuk, Hernandez, Smoak, etc. all need to be eventually replaced over the next couple of years.


Am I the only person who likes Teoscar? What's so bad about him?
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Re: Joe Biagini, Aaron Sanchez traded to Astros for Derek Fisher 

Post#164 » by polo007 » Thu Aug 1, 2019 1:15 am

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Re: Joe Biagini, Aaron Sanchez traded to Astros for Derek Fisher 

Post#165 » by Schad » Thu Aug 1, 2019 1:34 am

Metallikid wrote:Am I the only person who likes Teoscar? What's so bad about him?


He has some promise. His K rate/swinging strike rate are terrifying, but they're better than last year, and his walk rate is pretty good. But he needs to put that together with being a bona fide above-average hitter overall, because he most certainly is not a CF and isn't a good OF at any position.
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Re: Joe Biagini, Aaron Sanchez traded to Astros for Derek Fisher 

Post#166 » by Cyrus » Thu Aug 1, 2019 1:35 am

I think something is off with our analytics that's valuing these AAAA prospects, in which they do well in minors but doesn't translate in majors.

This isn't our first deal like this:

Drury
Mckinnine
Britto
Hernandez
Now Fisher

And may be doing the same thing with trying to just acquire control n hopefully surplus value, but that could be bunch of 3rd/4th type starters or relievers.

At some point will need to stop trying to get everyone's 4th man of or wherever and go for someone elite. But I think our analytics aren't showing the value in that path.
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Re: Joe Biagini, Aaron Sanchez traded to Astros for Derek Fisher 

Post#167 » by gundysmullet » Thu Aug 1, 2019 1:38 am

Honest question; what happened to Tellez?
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Re: Joe Biagini, Aaron Sanchez traded to Astros for Derek Fisher 

Post#168 » by zilby » Thu Aug 1, 2019 1:43 am

A sell-low for a sell-low, sure, but man, we're really racking up the list of players we could've (and definitely should've) sold very high on midway through 2017 but didn't because fake contending was more important. Sigh.

I really hope that decision to fake contend doesn't bite us in the ass when it's time to actually put talent around Vlad, Bo and Biggio. All these low-end prospects won't fetch us anything then and don't project to be the high-end talent we'll require.
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Re: Joe Biagini, Aaron Sanchez traded to Astros for Derek Fisher 

Post#169 » by BigLeagueChew » Thu Aug 1, 2019 1:45 am

gundysmullet wrote:Honest question; what happened to Tellez?


As a hitter overall or his status? He was optioned a few games ago to Buffalo, alot of swing and miss there and he's near the bottom of the league for ops by 1b/dh, an adjustment needs to be made.
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Re: Joe Biagini, Aaron Sanchez traded to Astros for Derek Fisher 

Post#170 » by Schad » Thu Aug 1, 2019 1:49 am

Cyrus wrote:I think something is off with our analytics that's valuing these AAAA prospects, in which they do well in minors but doesn't translate in majors.

This isn't our first deal like this:

Drury
Mckinnine
Britton
Hernandez

Andc may be doing the same thing with trying to just acquire control n hopefully surplus value, but that could be bunch of 3rd/4th type starters or relievers.

At some point will need to stop trying to get everyone's 4th man of or wherever and go for someone elite. But I think our analytics aren't showing the value in that path.


I suspect that the metric in question is "do they hit the ball hard?", though in fancier terms. That's the throughline with most of those cheap pickups, and with our draft for that matter: we're willing to overlook a fair bit if they thump the ball when they make contact with it.

There is logic to that. Both Bichette and Groshans are prospects who had really messy-looking swings entering the draft, but who hit the ball hard in any instance. And it's something that other smart teams pay quite a bit of attention to as well, because exit velocity, launch angle and the like are strongly predictive, and the risk/reward when picking those guys up on the cheap is substantial, if they can ever make contact with any regularity.

But where those prospects might differ from the Grichuks and Druries and Teoscars etc is that they have superior bat control, and can combine hitting the ball hard without striking out 35% of the time. The likelihood of being able to have at least average contact diminishes if you're taking big, long swings without the ability to adjust and at least foul off tough pitches.
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Re: Joe Biagini, Aaron Sanchez traded to Astros for Derek Fisher 

Post#171 » by Cyrus » Thu Aug 1, 2019 2:03 am

Schad wrote:
Cyrus wrote:I think something is off with our analytics that's valuing these AAAA prospects, in which they do well in minors but doesn't translate in majors.

This isn't our first deal like this:

Drury
Mckinnine
Britton
Hernandez

Andc may be doing the same thing with trying to just acquire control n hopefully surplus value, but that could be bunch of 3rd/4th type starters or relievers.

At some point will need to stop trying to get everyone's 4th man of or wherever and go for someone elite. But I think our analytics aren't showing the value in that path.


I suspect that the metric in question is "do they hit the ball hard?", though in fancier terms. That's the throughline with most of those cheap pickups, and with our draft for that matter: we're willing to overlook a fair bit if they thump the ball when they make contact with it.

There is logic to that. Both Bichette and Groshans are prospects who had really messy-looking swings entering the draft, but who hit the ball hard in any instance. And it's something that other smart teams pay quite a bit of attention to as well, because exit velocity, launch angle and the like are strongly predictive, and the risk/reward when picking those guys up on the cheap is substantial, if they can ever make contact with any regularity.

But where those prospects might differ from the Grichuks and Druries and Teoscars etc is that they have superior bat control, and can combine hitting the ball hard without striking out 35% of the time. The likelihood of being able to have at least average contact diminishes if you're taking big, long swings without the ability to adjust and at least foul off tough pitches.


I'm surprised we weren't in on that 3 way Cleveland deal that got them San Diego outfielder with a lot of swing and miss, but when he makes contact look out lol
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Re: Joe Biagini, Aaron Sanchez traded to Astros for Derek Fisher 

Post#172 » by Lateral Quicks » Thu Aug 1, 2019 2:04 am

BigLeagueChew wrote:
gundysmullet wrote:Honest question; what happened to Tellez?


As a hitter overall or his status? He was optioned a few games ago to Buffalo, alot of swing and miss there and he's near the bottom of the league for ops by 1b/dh, an adjustment needs to be made.


Tellez has been raking - in a very limited sample size - since moving back to Buffalo. He probably won't get another shot this year now with the addition of Fisher.
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Re: Joe Biagini, Aaron Sanchez traded to Astros for Derek Fisher 

Post#173 » by Boogie! » Thu Aug 1, 2019 3:39 am

Lol our pitching core of the future is no more.
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Re: Joe Biagini, Aaron Sanchez traded to Astros for Derek Fisher 

Post#174 » by Tanner » Thu Aug 1, 2019 4:22 am

Eh, Fisher has power, speed, can draw walks, and can play all OF positions apparently. He might lack the contact ability to truly become good but at least you can dream on his skills a bit. Not like McKinney who is below average at practically everything.
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Re: Joe Biagini, Aaron Sanchez traded to Astros for Derek Fisher 

Post#175 » by Schad » Thu Aug 1, 2019 4:45 am

Yeah, Fisher isn't without upside if it suddenly clicked. Honestly, the deal wouldn't be bad value (mostly because the trade contains little value) if Fisher wasn't a few months from almost definitely being available for free, as he has burned all his option years.
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Re: Joe Biagini, Aaron Sanchez traded to Astros for Derek Fisher 

Post#176 » by vaff87 » Thu Aug 1, 2019 4:59 am

Schad wrote:Yeah, Fisher isn't without upside if it suddenly clicked. Honestly, the deal wouldn't be bad value (mostly because the trade contains little value) if Fisher wasn't a few months from almost definitely being available for free, as he has burned all his option years.


I guess maybe they:

1. Didn’t want to risk that not happening.
2. Felt it was worth it to get him in here for the next two months to get acclimated, and perhaps make whatever adjustments they want him to make.
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Re: Joe Biagini, Aaron Sanchez traded to Astros for Derek Fisher 

Post#177 » by Cyrus » Thu Aug 1, 2019 7:22 am

Funny the Astros, could potentially have the same bullpen the Jays had in 2015.

7th - Joe Biagini
8th - Sanchez (if he moves to the bullpen)
9th - Osuna
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Re: Joe Biagini, Aaron Sanchez traded to Astros for Derek Fisher 

Post#178 » by Mascot » Thu Aug 1, 2019 10:39 am

Glad Sanchez is gone, dude was promoted way too much over Marcus Stroman years ago, Stroman was always the better pitcher Sanchez had no trade value, dude has finger problems and you dont want that with a pitcher.
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Re: Joe Biagini, Aaron Sanchez traded to Astros for Derek Fisher 

Post#179 » by Mascot » Thu Aug 1, 2019 10:49 am

spykelee wrote:Maybe we owed houston some future considerations... Would be interesting to actually track that sometime. Maybe help explain why teams unnescarily attach more for middling prospects.

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May 19, 2014
Traded player to be named or cash to the Houston Astros. Received Raul Valdes.
June 12, 2014
Traded Will Dupont (minors) and Alejandro Solarte (minors) to the Houston Astros. Received Adron Chambers.
May 15, 2015
Purchased Ronald Torreyes from the Houston Astros.
August 1, 2016
Traded Lupe Chavez (minors) to the Houston Astros. Received Scott Feldman.
July 31, 2017
Traded Francisco Liriano to the Houston Astros. Received Nori Aoki and Teoscar Hernandez.
July 30, 2018
Traded Roberto Osuna to the Houston Astros. Received Hector Perez (minors), Ken Giles and David Paulino.
November 17, 2018
Traded Aledmys Diaz to the Houston Astros. Received Trent Thornton.

Interesting that the Jays trade with Houston every season.
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Re: Joe Biagini, Aaron Sanchez traded to Astros for Derek Fisher 

Post#180 » by polo007 » Thu Aug 1, 2019 11:38 am

The Blue Jays traded Aaron Sanchez, Joe Biagini and prospect Cal Stevenson to the Astros for Derek Fisher, a 25-year old outfielder performing well in AAA. Toronto's general manager Ross Atkins discusses the deal and the excitement with Fisher's upside.

https://www.tsn.ca/mlb/video/atkins-on-sanchez-trade-fisher-s-upside-was-too-much-to-turn-away-from~1742486

Aaron Sanchez talks about his time with the Blue Jays and thanks the organization and fans for the support and allowing him to become a major league pitcher. He also reflects on the good times in Toronto and says he's looking forward to making a run at a championship with Houston.

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