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Joe Biagini, Aaron Sanchez traded to Astros for Derek Fisher

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Re: Joe Biagini, Aaron Sanchez traded to Astros for Derek Fisher 

Post#181 » by LBJSeizedMyID » Thu Aug 1, 2019 12:17 pm

Guessing this had more with getting rid of money in having to include both Sanchez, Biagini and a "prospect"? Sanchez was underwhelming here in Toronto, but expect the Astros to somehow fix him. Not sure why we traded for Fisher, but like Smoak, I guess Fisher might have some upside in the tank himself. Guessing this comes at the expense of Teoscar? Or wait until his hot streak is over and starts striking out every other AB
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Re: Joe Biagini, Aaron Sanchez traded to Astros for Derek Fisher 

Post#182 » by LBJSeizedMyID » Thu Aug 1, 2019 12:29 pm

Denisaur9 wrote:If we had traded that package for Clint Frazier would people be upset? Frazier was off limits by the sounds of it.

Fisher is a year older but minor league stats are very similar.

Hoping he surprises us but if he does decent we have 5 years of control for a guy who has set a record for most games without a win and has had nothing but injuries for years with one year of control a rule 5 pickup and lower potential guy.

I think we are over valuing guys we have watched thinking they are still valuable.

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A case of overvaluing our players and whatever moves the current front office makes is a poor one, forgetting that Sanchez was the one that AA would not trade for Dickey, choosing to offer Syndergaard instead.
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Re: Joe Biagini, Aaron Sanchez traded to Astros for Derek Fisher 

Post#183 » by whysoserious » Thu Aug 1, 2019 12:54 pm

As a passive fan, can someone quickly highlight what our minor league system looks like?

It's great that we have Vlad, CB and Bo up with Jansen. Solid position players to build around. But it seems we have absolutely no starting pitching and nothing on the horizon. Maybe I'm wrong but other than the two years the Jays were in the playoffs, over the last 30 years it's always felt like we've either had solid position players in development or solid pitching in development, never really both at the same time.
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Re: Joe Biagini, Aaron Sanchez traded to Astros for Derek Fisher 

Post#184 » by gundysmullet » Thu Aug 1, 2019 1:07 pm

LBJSeizedMyID wrote:
Denisaur9 wrote:If we had traded that package for Clint Frazier would people be upset? Frazier was off limits by the sounds of it.

Fisher is a year older but minor league stats are very similar.

Hoping he surprises us but if he does decent we have 5 years of control for a guy who has set a record for most games without a win and has had nothing but injuries for years with one year of control a rule 5 pickup and lower potential guy.

I think we are over valuing guys we have watched thinking they are still valuable.

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A case of overvaluing our players and whatever moves the current front office makes is a poor one, forgetting that Sanchez was the one that AA would not trade for Dickey, choosing to offer Syndergaard instead.

The two ideas are not mutually exclusive though; some fans can “over value” the Jays prospects AND Shatkins can be awful at trading.
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Re: Joe Biagini, Aaron Sanchez traded to Astros for Derek Fisher 

Post#185 » by Skin Blues » Thu Aug 1, 2019 1:15 pm

whysoserious wrote:As a passive fan, can someone quickly highlight what our minor league system looks like?

It's great that we have Vlad, CB and Bo up with Jansen. Solid position players to build around. But it seems we have absolutely no starting pitching and nothing on the horizon. Maybe I'm wrong but other than the two years the Jays were in the playoffs, over the last 30 years it's always felt like we've either had solid position players in development or solid pitching in development, never really both at the same time.

5 of our top 6 prospects are starting pitchers. I'm sure you've heard of Nate Pearson, and then there's Alek Manoah that we just drafted. Those are the two big ones. Then there's Pardinho along with the two guys we got from the Mets for Stroman, and some places have Kloffenstein on par with them too. So there are arms on the horizon.
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Re: Joe Biagini, Aaron Sanchez traded to Astros for Derek Fisher 

Post#186 » by whysoserious » Thu Aug 1, 2019 1:20 pm

Skin Blues wrote:
whysoserious wrote:As a passive fan, can someone quickly highlight what our minor league system looks like?

It's great that we have Vlad, CB and Bo up with Jansen. Solid position players to build around. But it seems we have absolutely no starting pitching and nothing on the horizon. Maybe I'm wrong but other than the two years the Jays were in the playoffs, over the last 30 years it's always felt like we've either had solid position players in development or solid pitching in development, never really both at the same time.

5 of our top 6 prospects are starting pitchers. I'm sure you've heard of Nate Pearson, and then there's Alek Manoah that we just drafted. Those are the two big ones. Then there's Pardinho along with the two guys we got from the Mets for Stroman, and some places have Kloffenstein on par with them too. So there are arms on the horizon.


Thanks, i've heard of Pearson and that's it. Are these guys close to being big leaguers?
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Re: Joe Biagini, Aaron Sanchez traded to Astros for Derek Fisher 

Post#187 » by Skin Blues » Thu Aug 1, 2019 2:15 pm

whysoserious wrote:
Skin Blues wrote:
whysoserious wrote:As a passive fan, can someone quickly highlight what our minor league system looks like?

It's great that we have Vlad, CB and Bo up with Jansen. Solid position players to build around. But it seems we have absolutely no starting pitching and nothing on the horizon. Maybe I'm wrong but other than the two years the Jays were in the playoffs, over the last 30 years it's always felt like we've either had solid position players in development or solid pitching in development, never really both at the same time.

5 of our top 6 prospects are starting pitchers. I'm sure you've heard of Nate Pearson, and then there's Alek Manoah that we just drafted. Those are the two big ones. Then there's Pardinho along with the two guys we got from the Mets for Stroman, and some places have Kloffenstein on par with them too. So there are arms on the horizon.


Thanks, i've heard of Pearson and that's it. Are these guys close to being big leaguers?

Pearson and Anthony Kay (from the Stroman trade) are close, but the rest are a couple years away. There are a couple more fringey guys that might be ready soon, like Yennsy Diaz and Patrick Murphy. But chances of them sticking in the rotation aren't great. Basically we have enough lottery tickets that a few should turn out to be fairly useful.
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Re: Joe Biagini, Aaron Sanchez traded to Astros for Derek Fisher 

Post#188 » by whysoserious » Thu Aug 1, 2019 3:34 pm

Skin Blues wrote:Pearson and Anthony Kay (from the Stroman trade) are close, but the rest are a couple years away. There are a couple more fringey guys that might be ready soon, like Yennsy Diaz and Patrick Murphy. But chances of them sticking in the rotation aren't great. Basically we have enough lottery tickets that a few should turn out to be fairly useful.


Well, hopefully Pearson can be that ace that's homegrown. We haven't developed a legit ace in the organization since Doc. Baseball is a crapshoot but the fact we have some potential fairly useful doesn't seem as promising as watching whats developing on the position player side.
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Re: Joe Biagini, Aaron Sanchez traded to Astros for Derek Fisher 

Post#189 » by I_Like_Dirt » Thu Aug 1, 2019 4:49 pm

whysoserious wrote:Well, hopefully Pearson can be that ace that's homegrown. We haven't developed a legit ace in the organization since Doc. Baseball is a crapshoot but the fact we have some potential fairly useful doesn't seem as promising as watching whats developing on the position player side.


That's just because the bats are ahead of the pitchers at this point. AA left very little in the farm system. The only hitters really worth a damn that came from AAs group were Vlad (absolutely fantastic), and Jansen (very good) and they make what was left of pitchers who look like they at least have a reasonable chance of making it as starters look not so good in Borucki (alright) and SRF (undecided).

Shapiro and Atkins restocked the position players first and we're seeing some of those results first for that reason. Gurriel, Bichette and Biggio are already here and all look passable or better. The remaining position players behind them, though, are all a ways away unless Kevin Smith starts making some jumps in his development. If you ignore the players that have already been called up, the Jays pitching prospects might actually be better than their position prospects at this point, though it's certainly debatable. Manoah, Pardinho, Woods-Richardson and Kloffenstein are all in A ball are lower and none of them have played that much just yet but all of them are looking anything from very good to awesome for their level right now. There will be bumps along the way, and injuries, too, but the pitching actually looks pretty good to me right now. It's just that most of it is going to start bubbling up in 2022 or so. I don't expect the Jays to make major long-term commitments but I do think they'll probably look to spend what money they have in free agency on some pitching to try to bridge that gap a bit as their young position players already on the roster continue improving.
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Re: Joe Biagini, Aaron Sanchez traded to Astros for Derek Fisher 

Post#190 » by bturn2210 » Thu Aug 1, 2019 5:23 pm

I_Like_Dirt wrote:
whysoserious wrote:Well, hopefully Pearson can be that ace that's homegrown. We haven't developed a legit ace in the organization since Doc. Baseball is a crapshoot but the fact we have some potential fairly useful doesn't seem as promising as watching whats developing on the position player side.


That's just because the bats are ahead of the pitchers at this point. AA left very little in the farm system. The only hitters really worth a damn that came from AAs group were Vlad (absolutely fantastic), and Jansen (very good) and they make what was left of pitchers who look like they at least have a reasonable chance of making it as starters look not so good in Borucki (alright) and SRF (undecided).

Shapiro and Atkins restocked the position players first and we're seeing some of those results first for that reason. Gurriel, Bichette and Biggio are already here and all look passable or better. The remaining position players behind them, though, are all a ways away unless Kevin Smith starts making some jumps in his development. If you ignore the players that have already been called up, the Jays pitching prospects might actually be better than their position prospects at this point, though it's certainly debatable. Manoah, Pardinho, Woods-Richardson and Kloffenstein are all in A ball are lower and none of them have played that much just yet but all of them are looking anything from very good to awesome for their level right now. There will be bumps along the way, and injuries, too, but the pitching actually looks pretty good to me right now. It's just that most of it is going to start bubbling up in 2022 or so. I don't expect the Jays to make major long-term commitments but I do think they'll probably look to spend what money they have in free agency on some pitching to try to bridge that gap a bit as their young position players already on the roster continue improving.


Kevin Smith is interesting. I remember Atkins and Shapiro saying they were very high on him going into this season, but he got off to such a slow start in the minors this year. He has though, turned things around. I read he's been one of the best hitters in AA over the last month.
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Re: Joe Biagini, Aaron Sanchez traded to Astros for Derek Fisher 

Post#191 » by Marmoset » Thu Aug 1, 2019 6:10 pm

When discussing the trade, Atkins face clearly lights up with a huge grin when they start discussing Derek Fisher. The obviously really, really like this guy. I hope that they are right, but I'm skeptical.

If the value of the guys they gave up is 'only' Derek Fisher, as many people have already said, I think they should have just held on to all of those guys as there was no urgency to move any of the three players. The obviously feel it's worth it.

I don't think it's wrong to go out and get a player if you really like him. My issues with it are:
1. You still shouldn't overpay to do so.
2. I don't think they're targeting the right players.

Hopefully the doubters, who are the vast majority including me, are proven wrong.
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Re: Joe Biagini, Aaron Sanchez traded to Astros for Derek Fisher 

Post#192 » by johanliebert » Thu Aug 1, 2019 6:43 pm

sanchez was feuding with the FO. Them advising him to take out his entire nail only wasted time as it did not help his issues. I hope he can adjust and regain the little success he had but they were trading him regardless he isnt their guy.

that finger injury is something he has to adjust from.
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Re: Joe Biagini, Aaron Sanchez traded to Astros for Derek Fisher 

Post#193 » by johanliebert » Thu Aug 1, 2019 6:47 pm

WuTang_OG wrote:Ross atkins on tim and sid. Guy just says a lot with very little substance.

Bryan colangelo protege?

even colangelo wasnt this corporate lol.

They're in their own category im not shocked they're mired in 1 year extensions i dont think they have friends within rogers.
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Re: Joe Biagini, Aaron Sanchez traded to Astros for Derek Fisher 

Post#194 » by Schad » Thu Aug 1, 2019 6:49 pm

Marmoset wrote:When discussing the trade, Atkins face clearly lights up with a huge grin when they start discussing Derek Fisher. The obviously really, really like this guy. I hope that they are right, but I'm skeptical.

If the value of the guys they gave up is 'only' Derek Fisher, as many people have already said, I think they should have just held on to all of those guys as there was no urgency to move any of the three players. The obviously feel it's worth it.

I don't think it's wrong to go out and get a player if you really like him. My issues with it are:
1. You still shouldn't overpay to do so.
2. I don't think they're targeting the right players.

Hopefully the doubters, who are the vast majority including me, are proven wrong.


That they might be fixating on certain players is absolutely a concern. It was also a concern with AA too, for what it's worth; some might remember his occasionally illogical pursuits of a couple of his favourites (Brett Anderson comes to mind), or his love of the waiver wire, which led us to roster and then DFA Sam Dyson after only two appearances (and only a couple years after he was drafted).
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Re: Joe Biagini, Aaron Sanchez traded to Astros for Derek Fisher 

Post#195 » by Skin Blues » Thu Aug 1, 2019 6:58 pm

Marmoset wrote:When discussing the trade, Atkins face clearly lights up with a huge grin when they start discussing Derek Fisher. The obviously really, really like this guy. I hope that they are right, but I'm skeptical.

If the value of the guys they gave up is 'only' Derek Fisher, as many people have already said, I think they should have just held on to all of those guys as there was no urgency to move any of the three players. The obviously feel it's worth it.

I don't think it's wrong to go out and get a player if you really like him. My issues with it are:
1. You still shouldn't overpay to do so.
2. I don't think they're targeting the right players.

Hopefully the doubters, who are the vast majority including me, are proven wrong.

They were also pretty excited to land Brandon Drury and everybody thought they knew some secret information about unlocking his potential. Turns out he's a utility infielder that can't play shortstop and is an even worse hitter than we could have feared.
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Re: Joe Biagini, Aaron Sanchez traded to Astros for Derek Fisher 

Post#196 » by WuTang_OG » Thu Aug 1, 2019 7:58 pm

Skin Blues wrote:
Marmoset wrote:When discussing the trade, Atkins face clearly lights up with a huge grin when they start discussing Derek Fisher. The obviously really, really like this guy. I hope that they are right, but I'm skeptical.

If the value of the guys they gave up is 'only' Derek Fisher, as many people have already said, I think they should have just held on to all of those guys as there was no urgency to move any of the three players. The obviously feel it's worth it.

I don't think it's wrong to go out and get a player if you really like him. My issues with it are:
1. You still shouldn't overpay to do so.
2. I don't think they're targeting the right players.

Hopefully the doubters, who are the vast majority including me, are proven wrong.

They were also pretty excited to land Brandon Drury and everybody thought they knew some secret information about unlocking his potential. Turns out he's a utility infielder that can't play shortstop and is an even worse hitter than we could have feared.


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Re: Joe Biagini, Aaron Sanchez traded to Astros for Derek Fisher 

Post#197 » by wazabifuzz » Thu Aug 1, 2019 11:40 pm

Would you guys be disappointed if he ended up being like Kevin pillar or maybe a slightly better pillar with a better hit tool. But then again he is hitting 200 and pillar is 246 in the majors so ....it’s not saying much!
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Re: Joe Biagini, Aaron Sanchez traded to Astros for Derek Fisher 

Post#199 » by polo007 » Fri Aug 2, 2019 3:58 am

Blue Jays' Fisher gets chance to prove himself away from crowded Astros - Sportsnet.ca

Fisher wasn’t in the starting lineup for Thursday’s series opener against the Baltimore Orioles, as manager Charlie Montoyo elected to give the soon-to-be 26-year-old a day to acclimate to his new surroundings. But he made clear that Fisher, a left-handed hitter capable of playing all three outfield spots, will get regular work in a crowded outfield rotation.

The bulk of his reps will come in centre and right, as Montoyo doesn’t want to disrupt Lourdes Gurriel Jr.’s defensive progress in left, although some DH days for a group that also includes Grichuk, Teoscar Hernandez and, for now, Billy McKinney should keep everyone plenty busy.


Like Trent Thornton, another prospect the Blue Jays acquired from the Astros blocked by a tremendous rotation, Fisher will get the type of opportunity unavailable to him with George Springer, Michael Brantley, Josh Reddick and Jake Marisnick in the outfield.

“For Trent and myself alike, and plenty of other guys who have come from very good organizations, our time there, you can’t really take it lightly,” said Fisher. “Everything happens for a reason. I can’t speak for Trent, but I can think he learned a lot and to be able to come over here and use our skills and use what we learned in our time over there is something that’s pretty special.”

While the deal for him has been polarizing in Toronto – the acquisition cost of former ace Aaron Sanchez, reliever Joe Biagini and outfield prospect Cal Stevenson drawing fire – Hudgens understands it from the other end, describing Fisher as “a really highly thought-of prospect in Houston.”

“Really hard-working kid,” he continued. “Tremendous upside. Big power. Way-above-average speed. Can play any of the three outfield positions. He just needs an opportunity – he’s killed it at every level of the minor-leagues that he’s been in.”

The Blue Jays need to get a read on him quickly, since Fisher will be out of options next year, something that limits his runway if he doesn’t immediately take and other Blue Jays outfielders earn more playing time.
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Re: Joe Biagini, Aaron Sanchez traded to Astros for Derek Fisher 

Post#200 » by polo007 » Fri Aug 2, 2019 4:05 am

Fisher finds trade to Jays from Astros bittersweet, but ready to get chance to contribute | Toronto Sun

“I’m leaving an organization that took a chance on me and gave me the opportunity to live a childhood dream,” Fisher said. “A chance to have that and play with some of the best players in the game was something I’m never going to forget.”

Fisher wasn’t suggesting he was disappointed to be going to the Jays. He should get a greater opportunity to contribute in the outfield in Toronto than he did in Houston, though he was not in the starting lineup on Thursday.

And the 25-year-old sees some similarities between the Jays and Astros, with whom he won the World Series in 2017.

“To have an opportunity here with this team and the guys, and how much fun they have in here, and how closely knit this group is, (it’s) very similar to Houston,” Fisher said. “A lot of us played in the minor leagues together and that was a big part of why that team was so fun and why the minor leagues was as fun as it was, because we won a lot of games.

“I walk into this clubhouse and you have a lot of young faces and a lot of guys who have played with each other coming up through the minor leagues and I feel like that’s something great to have.

“I can’t take my time in Houston lightly with how much I learned and the guys I was able to play with, but there is a time when you want to be able to use your skills and to be able to help a team every single day. It’s why we play this game. Not only is it fun, but we get to help a team win and here in Toronto, a country win.”

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