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Joe Biagini, Aaron Sanchez traded to Astros for Derek Fisher

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Re: Joe Biagini, Aaron Sanchez traded to Astros for Derek Fisher 

Post#261 » by I_Like_Dirt » Thu Aug 8, 2019 2:30 pm

agkagk wrote:Prime Andrew Miller?

Or

Follow gerrit coles model; rely on his four seamer and make Pittsburgh look stupid......



Wut?

If we're going to use this kind of logic then Fisher really just needs to cut down on the strikeouts and focus more on hitting home runs and he can be Mike Trout. Though if that's maybe just a little unrealistic then he's at least Kevin Keiermaier or something like that. You're dealing with an imaginary Aaron Sanchez at this point.
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Re: Joe Biagini, Aaron Sanchez traded to Astros for Derek Fisher 

Post#262 » by BigLeagueChew » Thu Aug 8, 2019 4:46 pm

I don't know if anyone watched him but i kind of get Chris Carpenter vibes from Sanchez. With us Carpenter had potential but didn't fully reach it here and ended up doing very well in St.louis. That seemed like it was more than just getting a pitcher out of the AL East and more of him finally reaching his potential.

Carpenter had slightly better control and what not but I always felt like we gave up on him too early. Not that I think Sanchez will win a Cy Young or anything just feels like he can be better.
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Re: Joe Biagini, Aaron Sanchez traded to Astros for Derek Fisher 

Post#263 » by I_Like_Dirt » Thu Aug 8, 2019 5:56 pm

BigLeagueChew wrote:I don't know if anyone watched him but i kind of get Chris Carpenter vibes from Sanchez. With us Carpenter had potential but didn't fully reach it here and ended up doing very well in St.louis. That seemed like it was more than just getting a pitcher out of the AL East and more of him finally reaching his potential.

Carpenter had slightly better control and what not but I always felt like we gave up on him too early. Not that I think Sanchez will win a Cy Young or anything just feels like he can be better.


I suppose Carpenter fits. He was absolutely terrible and then suddenly became a Cy Young contender at age 29 after missing more than an entire season because of 2 separate torn labrum. I have no idea how health played into what Carpenter did but the problem with him is that he literally fits as a reason not to give up on basically any pitcher ever. There are many, many pitchers who are as bad as Carpenter was from 1997-2003. There are also many, many pitchers who were seriously hurt at the end of long stretches of bad pitching. There are extremely few pitchers who are that bad, suffer major injuries, and then suddenly come back as Cy Young contenders. That's a ridiculous gamble.

Now consider that his magical transformation at age 29 happened right at the height of the steroid scandal in baseball in the same year Canseco wrote his book and that there has been a rather dramatic change in players' abilities to play into their 30s after that point and while there is no evidence I'm aware of, it sure as hell seems as does everything from that era. Particularly given that his turnaround came on a team that had only a few years before turned Mark McGwire into an even bigger superstar at age 34 than he had ever been in Oakland and we all know why now. Granted, pitchers don't seem nearly as impacted as hitters from increased PED monitoring but it's still an issue there, too.
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Re: Joe Biagini, Aaron Sanchez traded to Astros for Derek Fisher 

Post#264 » by BigLeagueChew » Thu Aug 8, 2019 8:02 pm

I_Like_Dirt wrote:
I suppose Carpenter fits. He was absolutely terrible and then suddenly became a Cy Young contender at age 29 after missing more than an entire season because of 2 separate torn labrum. I have no idea how health played into what Carpenter did but the problem with him is that he literally fits as a reason not to give up on basically any pitcher ever. There are many, many pitchers who are as bad as Carpenter was from 1997-2003. There are also many, many pitchers who were seriously hurt at the end of long stretches of bad pitching. There are extremely few pitchers who are that bad, suffer major injuries, and then suddenly come back as Cy Young contenders. That's a ridiculous gamble.

Now consider that his magical transformation at age 29 happened right at the height of the steroid scandal in baseball in the same year Canseco wrote his book and that there has been a rather dramatic change in players' abilities to play into their 30s after that point and while there is no evidence I'm aware of, it sure as hell seems as does everything from that era. Particularly given that his turnaround came on a team that had only a few years before turned Mark McGwire into an even bigger superstar at age 34 than he had ever been in Oakland and we all know why now. Granted, pitchers don't seem nearly as impacted as hitters from increased PED monitoring but it's still an issue there, too.


How times have changed..was just 2016 and various people were worried about Sanchez innings workload including Atkins and Shapiro, now he's not here anymore.
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Re: Joe Biagini, Aaron Sanchez traded to Astros for Derek Fisher 

Post#265 » by Schad » Fri Aug 9, 2019 1:59 am

I_Like_Dirt wrote:I suppose Carpenter fits. He was absolutely terrible and then suddenly became a Cy Young contender at age 29 after missing more than an entire season because of 2 separate torn labrum. I have no idea how health played into what Carpenter did but the problem with him is that he literally fits as a reason not to give up on basically any pitcher ever. There are many, many pitchers who are as bad as Carpenter was from 1997-2003. There are also many, many pitchers who were seriously hurt at the end of long stretches of bad pitching. There are extremely few pitchers who are that bad, suffer major injuries, and then suddenly come back as Cy Young contenders. That's a ridiculous gamble.

Now consider that his magical transformation at age 29 happened right at the height of the steroid scandal in baseball in the same year Canseco wrote his book and that there has been a rather dramatic change in players' abilities to play into their 30s after that point and while there is no evidence I'm aware of, it sure as hell seems as does everything from that era. Particularly given that his turnaround came on a team that had only a few years before turned Mark McGwire into an even bigger superstar at age 34 than he had ever been in Oakland and we all know why now. Granted, pitchers don't seem nearly as impacted as hitters from increased PED monitoring but it's still an issue there, too.


Even if Carp was clean, he's a massive outlier; a torn labrum is still often a career-altering injury, and he has two surgeries, plus elbow surgery. It's not that the Jays didn't want him either...they just didn't want to pay him the full freight of his contract. Neither did the Cards after his second surgery, for what it's worth: they bought him out, but that time he did sign back up at, I believe, the minimum salary.
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Re: Joe Biagini, Aaron Sanchez traded to Astros for Derek Fisher 

Post#266 » by KL78192020 » Sun Aug 11, 2019 2:27 pm

Sanchez with another W last night. Great trade for the Astros.
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Re: Joe Biagini, Aaron Sanchez traded to Astros for Derek Fisher 

Post#267 » by vaff87 » Sun Aug 11, 2019 4:51 pm

KL78192020 wrote:Sanchez with another W last night. Great trade for the Astros.


Yeah, I credit Sanchez for that 23-2 win over the powerhouse Orioles. Couldn’t have done it without him.
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Re: Joe Biagini, Aaron Sanchez traded to Astros for Derek Fisher 

Post#268 » by KL78192020 » Sun Aug 11, 2019 5:03 pm

vaff87 wrote:
KL78192020 wrote:Sanchez with another W last night. Great trade for the Astros.


Yeah, I credit Sanchez for that 23-2 win over the powerhouse Orioles. Couldn’t have done it without him.


One earned run in 5 innings, better than any jays pitcher. Keep hating.
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Re: Joe Biagini, Aaron Sanchez traded to Astros for Derek Fisher 

Post#269 » by vaff87 » Sun Aug 11, 2019 5:08 pm

KL78192020 wrote:
vaff87 wrote:
KL78192020 wrote:Sanchez with another W last night. Great trade for the Astros.


Yeah, I credit Sanchez for that 23-2 win over the powerhouse Orioles. Couldn’t have done it without him.


One earned run in 5 innings, better than any jays pitcher. Keep hating.


You literally have to go back two ****ing days to find a jays pitcher who gave up one run in five innings. And he did it against the Yankees.
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Re: Joe Biagini, Aaron Sanchez traded to Astros for Derek Fisher 

Post#270 » by agkagk » Sun Aug 11, 2019 5:08 pm

I get the impression that this forum is overrun with constant homer apologists
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Re: Joe Biagini, Aaron Sanchez traded to Astros for Derek Fisher 

Post#271 » by wamco » Sun Aug 11, 2019 5:10 pm

I_Like_Dirt wrote:
BigLeagueChew wrote:I don't know if anyone watched him but i kind of get Chris Carpenter vibes from Sanchez. With us Carpenter had potential but didn't fully reach it here and ended up doing very well in St.louis. That seemed like it was more than just getting a pitcher out of the AL East and more of him finally reaching his potential.

Carpenter had slightly better control and what not but I always felt like we gave up on him too early. Not that I think Sanchez will win a Cy Young or anything just feels like he can be better.


I suppose Carpenter fits. He was absolutely terrible and then suddenly became a Cy Young contender at age 29 after missing more than an entire season because of 2 separate torn labrum. I have no idea how health played into what Carpenter did but the problem with him is that he literally fits as a reason not to give up on basically any pitcher ever. There are many, many pitchers who are as bad as Carpenter was from 1997-2003. There are also many, many pitchers who were seriously hurt at the end of long stretches of bad pitching. There are extremely few pitchers who are that bad, suffer major injuries, and then suddenly come back as Cy Young contenders. That's a ridiculous gamble.

Now consider that his magical transformation at age 29 happened right at the height of the steroid scandal in baseball in the same year Canseco wrote his book and that there has been a rather dramatic change in players' abilities to play into their 30s after that point and while there is no evidence I'm aware of, it sure as hell seems as does everything from that era. Particularly given that his turnaround came on a team that had only a few years before turned Mark McGwire into an even bigger superstar at age 34 than he had ever been in Oakland and we all know why now. Granted, pitchers don't seem nearly as impacted as hitters from increased PED monitoring but it's still an issue there, too.



I think just as many pitchers have been busted as hitters actually
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Re: Joe Biagini, Aaron Sanchez traded to Astros for Derek Fisher 

Post#272 » by vaff87 » Sun Aug 11, 2019 5:11 pm

agkagk wrote:I get the impression that this forum is overrun with constant homer apologists


Why? Because people call out your ignorance?
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Re: Joe Biagini, Aaron Sanchez traded to Astros for Derek Fisher 

Post#273 » by KL78192020 » Sun Aug 11, 2019 5:13 pm

vaff87 wrote:
agkagk wrote:I get the impression that this forum is overrun with constant homer apologists


Why? Because people call out your ignorance?


You're just butthurt when people call out Jays management.
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Re: Joe Biagini, Aaron Sanchez traded to Astros for Derek Fisher 

Post#274 » by vaff87 » Sun Aug 11, 2019 5:26 pm

KL78192020 wrote:
vaff87 wrote:
agkagk wrote:I get the impression that this forum is overrun with constant homer apologists


Why? Because people call out your ignorance?


You're just butthurt when people call out Jays management.


Am I now? You don’t even know me.

I notice you didn’t comment on my other point.
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Re: Joe Biagini, Aaron Sanchez traded to Astros for Derek Fisher 

Post#275 » by phillipmike » Sun Aug 11, 2019 5:33 pm

You guys haven’t read vaff87’s post if you think he is a Shapiro/Atkins apologist. See what was said a few years ago. Vaff is fair with their evaluation of the FO, both positive and negative posts which is what fair evaluations are about.

If people truly understood baseball, rebuilding, trade markets and ownership pressures you would be able to evaluate fairly and without bias.

This management has done a lot rebuilding the front office, coaching staff and adding young talent to the franchise and too me that is the most important part. They haven’t done a great job marketing, understanding the market (both trade and city/country) and perhaps in trade but only time will truly tell. In terms of selling Donaldson, Osuna and Giles; a lot has to do with bad luck - injuries and a DV case.

I hope they are given 2020 and 2021 to see their core through and let their prospects and trades materialize.
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Re: Joe Biagini, Aaron Sanchez traded to Astros for Derek Fisher 

Post#276 » by vaff87 » Sun Aug 11, 2019 6:09 pm

phillipmike wrote:You guys haven’t read vaff87’s post if you think he is a Shapiro/Atkins apologist. See what was said a few years ago. Vaff is fair with their evaluation of the FO, both positive and negative posts which is what fair evaluations are about.

If people truly understood baseball, rebuilding, trade markets and ownership pressures you would be able to evaluate fairly and without bias.

This management has done a lot rebuilding the front office, coaching staff and adding young talent to the franchise and too me that is the most important part. They haven’t done a great job marketing, understanding the market (both trade and city/country) and perhaps in trade but only time will truly tell. In terms of selling Donaldson, Osuna and Giles; a lot has to do with bad luck - injuries and a DV case.

I hope they are given 2020 and 2021 to see their core through and let their prospects and trades materialize.


Truth is, I’m a bit of a homer. As I like to look on the positive side of things. However, these guys have been saying such ridiculous nonsense that anybody with a decent understanding of baseball can see it. One guy a day or so ago said the only reason the Astros are good is because they outspend teams in FA. WTF? Ratul said the Jays should have kept Donaldson, and moved him to SS at age 33 to accommodate Vladdy. This after he’s relentlessly criticized Shapiro for supposedly “not caring about defense”. Like, make up your mind.

And while I may be a bit of a homer, they’ve accused people like schad of being shills for the team. I’ve been talking to schad on here for over a decade, and he is absolutely not a homer at all.
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Re: Joe Biagini, Aaron Sanchez traded to Astros for Derek Fisher 

Post#277 » by KL78192020 » Sun Aug 11, 2019 6:14 pm

vaff87 wrote:
phillipmike wrote:You guys haven’t read vaff87’s post if you think he is a Shapiro/Atkins apologist. See what was said a few years ago. Vaff is fair with their evaluation of the FO, both positive and negative posts which is what fair evaluations are about.

If people truly understood baseball, rebuilding, trade markets and ownership pressures you would be able to evaluate fairly and without bias.

This management has done a lot rebuilding the front office, coaching staff and adding young talent to the franchise and too me that is the most important part. They haven’t done a great job marketing, understanding the market (both trade and city/country) and perhaps in trade but only time will truly tell. In terms of selling Donaldson, Osuna and Giles; a lot has to do with bad luck - injuries and a DV case.

I hope they are given 2020 and 2021 to see their core through and let their prospects and trades materialize.


Truth is, I’m a bit of a homer. As I like to look on the positive side of things. However, these guys have been saying such ridiculous nonsense that anybody with a decent understanding of baseball can see it. One guy a day or so ago said the only reason the Astros are good is because they outspend teams in FA. WTF? Ratul said the Jays should have kept Donaldson, and moved him to SS at age 33 to accommodate Vladdy. This after he’s relentlessly criticized Shapiro for supposedly “not caring about defense”. Like, make up your mind.

And while I may be a bit of a homer, they’ve accused people like schad of being shills for the team. I’ve been talking to schad on here for over a decade, and he is absolutely not a homer at all.


and yet you still can't admit this was a horrible trade. You think Fisher is gona turn out great? lol.
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Re: Joe Biagini, Aaron Sanchez traded to Astros for Derek Fisher 

Post#278 » by Schad » Sun Aug 11, 2019 6:40 pm

KL78192020 wrote:
vaff87 wrote:
KL78192020 wrote:Sanchez with another W last night. Great trade for the Astros.


Yeah, I credit Sanchez for that 23-2 win over the powerhouse Orioles. Couldn’t have done it without him.


One earned run in 5 innings, better than any jays pitcher. Keep hating.


I watched part of it. He couldn't throw strikes in the first couple innings, and only the inherent Oriolesness of his opposition prevented him from surrendering a bunch of runs. It wasn't a particularly good start.
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Re: Joe Biagini, Aaron Sanchez traded to Astros for Derek Fisher 

Post#279 » by agkagk » Sun Aug 11, 2019 6:52 pm

vaff87 wrote:
agkagk wrote:I get the impression that this forum is overrun with constant homer apologists


Why? Because people call out your ignorance?



You know after reading these forums for years, I always get a chuckle out of the fan boys who literally spent the last decade waxing profetically about how much they know better then everyone else and how everyone’s opinion is beneath there’s. Most usually while hiding behind condescending remarks about how much better they understand analytics and prospect prognostication.

That’s the beauty of it, you can always be right when you know better five years from now. Just throw some random stats at the wall and attack other peoples opinions.


Seriously, tell em some more about how stupid I am for saying dalton Pompey is a non prospect 5 years ago.

I remember you, you were a self involved condescending twit then and you still are; a Jackass. Go jerk off to yourself at someone else’s expense.

But sure I’m ignorant.
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Re: Joe Biagini, Aaron Sanchez traded to Astros for Derek Fisher 

Post#280 » by Schad » Sun Aug 11, 2019 7:13 pm

Fun fact: the search function now works. You have exactly zero posts mentioning Dalton Pompey prior to the 2018 offseason. No one on this forum called you names for stating that Pompey was a non-prospect, because it's an opinion that you never expressed here.
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