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Traded nothing for something.

Depth starter who throw 93-94 who can give you innings. 8.5M option this season and 9.5M next season. If it doesnt work out you decline the option, if it does then you have a trade chip.

I like it. Adds a decent pitcher to the rotation.

HR-prone pitcher from Milwaukee who relies on FB-CH (reminds me of Marco Estrada).

Sorry but why didn’t we keep stroman instead?

Perfect deal.

Surrender none of your real young talent.
Add an MLB arm to help us through the next year or 2 at a reasonable price, while the young pitching in minors matures and until we are ready to compete/add bigger FA names after Tulo's contract ends.
I'm fine with the current rotation candidates as they stand. Anderson and Shoemaker for stability and a full chance for all of Wags, Thornton, Borucki, Kay, and Zeuch to see who performs and emerges as a piece to keep/build with after 2020.

ratul wrote:Sorry but why didn’t we keep stroman instead?

For Kay and SWR, who both fit much better with our future window to contend.

SharoneWright wrote:

ratul wrote:Sorry but why didn’t we keep stroman instead?

For Kay and SWR, who both fit much better with our future window to contend.

Or how about just not trade the all-star pitcher making 7mn a year for a pitcher who is measurably worse and making 1.5mn more. Our concern with stroman was apparently we'd have to pay him after 2020 - instead we just get a worse pitcher whom we pay more.

Not much to see with Kay or SWR to be honest. Kay had a 6.00 ERA and SWR won't be up to the bigs (if he makes it) until probably 2022.

the implication one is making is that we will not contend next year. Which would be year five of this experiment.

Shapiro drops the cheese and the rat appears

A fine deal. Hopefully they aim a bit higher with some of their other acquisitions.

Adrian_05 wrote:A fine deal. Hopefully they aim a bit higher with some of their other acquisitions.

He's a worthy placeholder. Next year and the year after is when they can start to consider longer-term deals for bigger names.

The next priority (NOW!) is to start clearing some of the deadwood from our outfield group, and to find new outfield talent that's going to be substantially above replacement for years to come.

As long as he's expected to be the #4-5 guy.

Can't help but think we got enough of these types already though.

Hopefully they can acquire a SP or two who are clearly better than what we already have on the roster without question.

Wo1verine wrote:As long as he's expected to be the #4-5 guy.

Can't help but think we got enough of these types already though.

Hopefully they can acquire a SP or two who are clearly better than what we already have on the roster without question.

Or not. We have at least 5 young SP hopefuls (legit potential) who need a full year in the Show to test their mettle. I don't want to dismiss any of them without a real shot. We need to do some quality control, and it's going to take a year to find out who's got the juice. This is the perfect year to run the test. We are not winning the division. We shouldn't spend like crazy. WE SHOULD find a few horses to run with in 2021---->??,,, and not lose a contributor due to lack of due diligence.

Should have waited until free agency began before doing a deal like this. We don’t know what the market will be for similar pitchers. Anderson would have been bought out by the Brewers. There are a bunch of 2 war level starters available that could be had on short term deals. Could have waited to see if something better was available first. The trade itself is ok, Spanberger is not good and Anderson is a big league starter, but I don’t understand the urgency to do this.

SharoneWright wrote:The next priority (NOW!) is to start clearing some of the deadwood from our outfield group, and to find new outfield talent that's going to be substantially above replacement for years to come.

SharoneWright wrote:Or not. We have at least 5 young [OF] hopefuls (legit potential) who need a[nother] full year in the Show to test their mettle. I don't want to dismiss any of them without a real shot. We need to do some quality control, and it's going to take a year to find out who's got the juice. This is the perfect year to run the test. We are not winning the division. We shouldn't spend like crazy. WE SHOULD find a few horses to run with in 2021---->??,,, and not lose a contributor due to lack of due diligence.

SharoneWright has always been one of my favourites on here.

LOL. I guess I've got far less patience for our middling outfield crop than I do for our middling SP crop!

Tanner wrote:Should have waited until free agency began before doing a deal like this. We don’t know what the market will be for similar pitchers. Anderson would have been bought out by the Brewers. There are a bunch of 2 war level starters available that could be had on short term deals. Could have waited to see if something better was available first. The trade itself is ok, Spanberger is not good and Anderson is a big league starter, but I don’t understand the urgency to do this.

Many of those guys may not want to come to a rebuilding/retooling team and/or come/stay in the AL East to try to rebuild value. Nothing is really guaranteed so you take the guy you know will come via trade, well because he has no choice.

We know this front office rather get things done before the deadline. Plus the Jays have a need for at least 1 more starter, possibly 2 so adding Anderson doesnt or shouldnt really limit them.

All free agent starters with a + WAR from last season;

https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=pit&lg=all&qual=0&type=8&season=2019&month=0&season1=2019&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=8223,6895,8362,5524,8782,13125,10123,4972,7593,8779,1994,6397,6902,5372,2717,8753,14444,10131,8044,2233,10310,6797,7448,4806,9434,11426,7531,10354,1890,11467,9388,3543,10587,12799,7608,4371&startdate=2019-01-01&enddate=2019-12-31

Anderson at 8.5M is in the group he should be, probably 1-1.5M overpaid but the cost of doing business. Jays have a 60-70 payroll depending on Giles, they should have a lot of money to spend.

SharoneWright wrote:

Wo1verine wrote:As long as he's expected to be the #4-5 guy.

Can't help but think we got enough of these types already though.

Hopefully they can acquire a SP or two who are clearly better than what we already have on the roster without question.

Or not. We have at least 5 young SP hopefuls (legit potential) who need a full year in the Show to test their mettle. I don't want to dismiss any of them without a real shot. We need to do some quality control, and it's going to take a year to find out who's got the juice. This is the perfect year to run the test. We are not winning the division. We shouldn't spend like crazy. WE SHOULD find a few horses to run with in 2021---->??,,, and not lose a contributor due to lack of due diligence.

I don't find your point very logical at all.

Chase Anderson is NOT going to be on the team in 2022 and beyond. He's 32 now, and out of moderately priced options after 2021. Paying $10m for a #4 starter when you have a slew of #4 types coming into the league is dumb.

He is the guy taking up a spot in the rotation that could be used to figure out which of our young pitchers is a contributor going forward.

He is the guy getting paid $8.5m this year and $10m next, when our position players are cheap and we have payroll flexibility to go after true top of the rotation talent. If we could have had Cole for $45 million this year, with a declining base salary over the remainder of the contract, but couldn't afford that because we spent $8.5 on a #4 pitcher in a year we didn't have any #3 or above pitcher (ie a tank year), that's idiotic. That salary is the opportunity cost to go after the #1 we could have secured for our 2021 -> timeframe.

Now, if we sign some legit #1's over the next off season or 2, then my point is moot, but I just don't see why they aren't going after Cole or Strasburg right now as they are clearly the best SP on the market over the next few offseasons. What are we waiting for?

A winning rotation is:
Cole/Strasburg
Wheeler/Paxton/Bauer
Pearson
Shoemaker/Burucki/Chase Anderson
Kay/Thornton

Why are we filling that #4 slot for $8.5 instead of going after the top talent we need?

phillipmike wrote:

Tanner wrote:Should have waited until free agency began before doing a deal like this. We don’t know what the market will be for similar pitchers. Anderson would have been bought out by the Brewers. There are a bunch of 2 war level starters available that could be had on short term deals. Could have waited to see if something better was available first. The trade itself is ok, Spanberger is not good and Anderson is a big league starter, but I don’t understand the urgency to do this.

Many of those guys may not want to come to a rebuilding/retooling team and/or come/stay in the AL East to try to rebuild value. Nothing is really guaranteed so you take the guy you know will come via trade, well because he has no choice.

We know this front office rather get things done before the deadline. Plus the Jays have a need for at least 1 more starter, possibly 2 so adding Anderson doesnt or shouldnt really limit them.

All free agent starters with a + WAR from last season;

https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=pit&lg=all&qual=0&type=8&season=2019&month=0&season1=2019&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=8223,6895,8362,5524,8782,13125,10123,4972,7593,8779,1994,6397,6902,5372,2717,8753,14444,10131,8044,2233,10310,6797,7448,4806,9434,11426,7531,10354,1890,11467,9388,3543,10587,12799,7608,4371&startdate=2019-01-01&enddate=2019-12-31

Anderson at 8.5M is in the group he should be, probably 1-1.5M overpaid but the cost of doing business. Jays have a 60-70 payroll depending on Giles, they should have a lot of money to spend.

Yeah the Jays wont be a prime FA destination for pitchers trying to recoup value, so trading for one (especially when the cost is basically nothing) is a safer approach. If this trade means the Jays won't sign another league average innings guy, and instead will focus on better options for the mid/top of the rotation, then that works.

One thing I'll say about Anderson is he might be underrated using FIP based War because his ERA is consistently better than his FIP. He seems to suppress hard contact/exit velo at a decent clip. Might need to look at him the same way we looked at Estrada.