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Well, let's hope that he's in a better mental place than Pearson (who still has the deer in the headlights look). With Matz starting to come back to earth with his recent mediocre starts, and Ray being solid still giving up way too many homeruns, we desperately another dependable starter to help Ryu.

Throw the kid to the wolves why don’t you

Not all young prospects are created equal. Just because Pearson was mentally shook doesn't mean Manoah will be. In fact, I think this dude thrives off this stuff. His numbers in ST and early on in AAA tell us that he's ready.

Nothing ever wrong with giving youth a chance to sink or swim.

some kids like to be thrown into the fire/ thrown to the wolves. we have to see what his mental makeup at this point is like.

Brinbe wrote:Not all young prospects are created equal. Just because Pearson was mentally shook doesn't mean Manoah will be. In fact, I think this dude thrives off this stuff. His numbers in ST and early on in AAA tell us that he's ready.

Nothing ever wrong with giving youth a chance to sink or swim.

I don't mind it. I just mind it if the fan base turns on him if he isn't immediately good. Patience with these guys matters quite a lot.

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Brinbe wrote:Not all young prospects are created equal. Just because Pearson was mentally shook doesn't mean Manoah will be. In fact, I think this dude thrives off this stuff. His numbers in ST and early on in AAA tell us that he's ready.

Nothing ever wrong with giving youth a chance to sink or swim.

His numbers in AAA really don't tell us that he's ready. I remember hearing the same thing about Vlad, who we were wasting by having him spend a few weeks in the minors...and then people started asking if he was a bust. Pearson cruised in the minors, but not so much in the majors.

The problem with Manoah is that he's still largely throwing the ball by people; he has more control than command at this point. If you watch highlights, his slider's absolutely nasty, but it's also rarely anywhere near the target. We can talk about mentality and whatever other buzzwords we please, the question is: Manoah get people to chase a lot of sliders? And in games where people aren't chasing sliders, is his fastball good enough to throw by people who can expect it?

It's definitely possible that his pure stuff is good enough to be a reasonable starter straightaway, and we're desperate. But it's not that easy to just throw stuff by major league hitters, especially if you are largely reliant on two pitches.

Schad wrote:

Brinbe wrote:Not all young prospects are created equal. Just because Pearson was mentally shook doesn't mean Manoah will be. In fact, I think this dude thrives off this stuff. His numbers in ST and early on in AAA tell us that he's ready.

Nothing ever wrong with giving youth a chance to sink or swim.

His numbers in AAA really don't tell us that he's ready. I remember hearing the same thing about Vlad, who we were wasting by having him spend a few weeks in the minors...and then people started asking if he was a bust. Pearson cruised in the minors, but not so much in the majors.

The problem with Manoah is that he's still largely throwing the ball by people; he has more control than command at this point. If you watch highlights, his slider's absolutely nasty, but it's also rarely anywhere near the target. We can talk about mentality and whatever other buzzwords we please, the question is: Manoah get people to chase a lot of sliders? And in games where people aren't chasing sliders, is his fastball good enough to throw by people who can expect it?

It's definitely possible that his pure stuff is good enough to be a reasonable starter straightaway, and we're desperate. But it's not that easy to just throw stuff by major league hitters, especially if you are largely reliant on two pitches.

Yes, but will he do any worse than Anthony Kay?

bluerap23 wrote:Yes, but will he do any worse than Anthony Kay?

There's a good chance he's better than Kay. But by enough to have a significant impact on our season? That's a different question. He absolutely could be, but if you were betting, you'd likely get the best odds on him being an okay 4th starter this year, for however many IP he's limited to.

Schad wrote:

Brinbe wrote:Not all young prospects are created equal. Just because Pearson was mentally shook doesn't mean Manoah will be. In fact, I think this dude thrives off this stuff. His numbers in ST and early on in AAA tell us that he's ready.

Nothing ever wrong with giving youth a chance to sink or swim.

His numbers in AAA really don't tell us that he's ready. I remember hearing the same thing about Vlad, who we were wasting by having him spend a few weeks in the minors...and then people started asking if he was a bust. Pearson cruised in the minors, but not so much in the majors.

The problem with Manoah is that he's still largely throwing the ball by people; he has more control than command at this point. If you watch highlights, his slider's absolutely nasty, but it's also rarely anywhere near the target. We can talk about mentality and whatever other buzzwords we please, the question is: Manoah get people to chase a lot of sliders? And in games where people aren't chasing sliders, is his fastball good enough to throw by people who can expect it?

It's definitely possible that his pure stuff is good enough to be a reasonable starter straightaway, and we're desperate. But it's not that easy to just throw stuff by major league hitters, especially if you are largely reliant on two pitches.

I say strike while the iron is hot. Maybe the stuff plays and Walker and co. can polish him up. Worst case scenario we just send him down - Manoah doesn't seem the sort to have his confidence shook if things don't go well.

I'm less worried about confidence than mechanics. Bad things happen when pitchers don't repeat their deliveries, both in terms of results and injuries. That's where Manoah's short track record of actually pitching competitively (and Pearson's for that matter) is potentially troublesome.

Dagger can wrote he told us so in regards to Manoah.

Schad wrote:

bluerap23 wrote:Yes, but will he do any worse than Anthony Kay?

There's a good chance he's better than Kay. But by enough to have a significant impact on our season? That's a different question. He absolutely could be, but if you were betting, you'd likely get the best odds on him being an okay 4th starter this year, for however many IP he's limited to.

That's fair. I have very little expectation that we make the playoffs this year. I am hopeful that next year some of this pitching (Pearson, Manoah, SWR) will be part of the rotation. Whatever leads to that outcome.

Schad wrote:I'm less worried about confidence than mechanics. Bad things happen when pitchers don't repeat their deliveries, both in terms of results and injuries. That's where Manoah's short track record of actually pitching competitively (and Pearson's for that matter) is potentially troublesome.

He's a pitcher... he'll find a way to get injured regardless.

Lateral Quicks wrote:

Schad wrote:I'm less worried about confidence than mechanics. Bad things happen when pitchers don't repeat their deliveries, both in terms of results and injuries. That's where Manoah's short track record of actually pitching competitively (and Pearson's for that matter) is potentially troublesome.

He's a pitcher... he'll find a way to get injured regardless.

There is that, yeah. His mechanics could be flawless, and we could limit him to five IP per season, and he'd end up on the DL after being blinded by a divebombing cicada.

So is Kay getting bumped or Stripling?

Suffice to say, those ugly losses vs TB pushed timeline up. Manoah has good break on his slider. Will be watching his offspeed usage as that will dictate if he can excel in rotation. We don't need him to be an all star just solid.

The_Hater wrote:So is Kay getting bumped or Stripling?

Kay was demoted 5 days ago, which is when I suspect they initially made the decision to call up Manoah.

Some guys just have "it" and they know it. This can supersede logic.