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dagger wrote:Barnes DFA'd, Kirby Snead up from BUF.

dagger wrote:Barnes DFA'd, Kirby Snead up from BUF.

Randle McMurphy wrote:

dagger wrote:Barnes DFA'd, Kirby Snead up from BUF.

Like Thornton before him, management had to DFA Barnes so Charlie would stop using him in high leverage situations. Trying to Montoyo proof this roster.

vaff87 wrote:Anybody know why Kirk is not in the lineup tonight? Or is it just the usual, that our manager has no idea what he’s doing?

Randle McMurphy wrote:

vaff87 wrote:Anybody know why Kirk is not in the lineup tonight? Or is it just the usual, that our manager has no idea what he’s doing?

Lineups are almost certainly Ross's call, I bet. I also assume it's a defence thing with Kirk v. McGuire (because it certainly couldn't be an offense thing).

vaff87 wrote:

Randle McMurphy wrote:

vaff87 wrote:Anybody know why Kirk is not in the lineup tonight? Or is it just the usual, that our manager has no idea what he’s doing?

Lineups are almost certainly Ross's call, I bet. I also assume it's a defence thing with Kirk v. McGuire (because it certainly couldn't be an offense thing).

I doubt Atkins has much if anything to do with the lineup. He’s not in the clubhouse, he doesn’t know how guys are feeling, etc. Also, he’s busy working the trade lines and whatnot.

Randle McMurphy wrote:

vaff87 wrote:

Randle McMurphy wrote:Lineups are almost certainly Ross's call, I bet. I also assume it's a defence thing with Kirk v. McGuire (because it certainly couldn't be an offense thing).

I doubt Atkins has much if anything to do with the lineup. He’s not in the clubhouse, he doesn’t know how guys are feeling, etc. Also, he’s busy working the trade lines and whatnot.

My understanding (which I believe Montoyo has mentioned before) is that Atkins talks to Montoyo every day. I have very little doubt he and the rest of that management team aren't dictating the lineup. That was the entire point of firing Gibbons and bringing in a puppet in the first place.

Randle McMurphy wrote:

vaff87 wrote:

Randle McMurphy wrote:Lineups are almost certainly Ross's call, I bet. I also assume it's a defence thing with Kirk v. McGuire (because it certainly couldn't be an offense thing).

I doubt Atkins has much if anything to do with the lineup. He’s not in the clubhouse, he doesn’t know how guys are feeling, etc. Also, he’s busy working the trade lines and whatnot.

My understanding (which I believe Montoyo has mentioned before) is that Atkins talks to Montoyo every day. I have very little doubt he and the rest of that management team aren't dictating the lineup. That was the entire point of firing Gibbons and bringing in a puppet in the first place.

vaff87 wrote:Anybody know why Kirk is not in the lineup tonight? Or is it just the usual, that our manager has no idea what he’s doing?

vaff87 wrote:

Randle McMurphy wrote:

vaff87 wrote:
I doubt Atkins has much if anything to do with the lineup. He’s not in the clubhouse, he doesn’t know how guys are feeling, etc. Also, he’s busy working the trade lines and whatnot.

My understanding (which I believe Montoyo has mentioned before) is that Atkins talks to Montoyo every day. I have very little doubt he and the rest of that management team aren't dictating the lineup. That was the entire point of firing Gibbons and bringing in a puppet in the first place.

I just felt they thought Gibbons wasn’t the right fit for a rebuilding team.

Randle McMurphy wrote:

vaff87 wrote:

Randle McMurphy wrote:My understanding (which I believe Montoyo has mentioned before) is that Atkins talks to Montoyo every day. I have very little doubt he and the rest of that management team aren't dictating the lineup. That was the entire point of firing Gibbons and bringing in a puppet in the first place.

I just felt they thought Gibbons wasn’t the right fit for a rebuilding team.

No way that's the case. I suspect they had some kind of falling out before the end. I was listening to a podcast (Bob McCown I think) about a month ago and Gibbons alluded to the fact that he'd seemingly gotten the reputation in front offices as being disagreeable/anti-analytics. At the same time, I believe he mentioned something about thinking managers should still be able to do their own lineups (with the clear suggestion that the Jays management weren't allowing him to do that anymore or had asked to do it and been denied by him). Apparently it has become commonplace for management to be dictating that and he didn't particularly agree with that approach.

vaff87 wrote:

Randle McMurphy wrote:

vaff87 wrote:
I just felt they thought Gibbons wasn’t the right fit for a rebuilding team.

No way that's the case. I suspect they had some kind of falling out before the end. I was listening to a podcast (Bob McCown I think) about a month ago and Gibbons alluded to the fact that he'd seemingly gotten the reputation in front offices as being disagreeable/anti-analytics. At the same time, I believe he mentioned something about thinking managers should still be able to do their own lineups (with the clear suggestion that the Jays management weren't allowing him to do that anymore or had asked to do it and been denied by him). Apparently it has become commonplace for management to be dictating that and he didn't particularly agree with that approach.

If they’re that hands on, I don’t know how we still see things like bunting with two strikes, refusing to bring in a closer in a tie game on the road, using crappy relievers in high leverage situations, etc. Because there’s no way guys like Atkins and Shapiro are that dumb.

Randle McMurphy wrote:

vaff87 wrote:

Randle McMurphy wrote:No way that's the case. I suspect they had some kind of falling out before the end. I was listening to a podcast (Bob McCown I think) about a month ago and Gibbons alluded to the fact that he'd seemingly gotten the reputation in front offices as being disagreeable/anti-analytics. At the same time, I believe he mentioned something about thinking managers should still be able to do their own lineups (with the clear suggestion that the Jays management weren't allowing him to do that anymore or had asked to do it and been denied by him). Apparently it has become commonplace for management to be dictating that and he didn't particularly agree with that approach.

If they’re that hands on, I don’t know how we still see things like bunting with two strikes, refusing to bring in a closer in a tie game on the road, using crappy relievers in high leverage situations, etc. Because there’s no way guys like Atkins and Shapiro are that dumb.

They're that hands-on pre-game (as far as setting lineups, which it sounds like from Gibbons basically every team does at this point), but all of those things you mention are during the actual game. They're wouldn't really be a way to dictate that unless they were constantly giving Montoyo advice by phone during the game (which, perhaps, they should be doing to prevent the utter insanity that I've had to watch for 3 seasons now).