Jays acquire Jose Berrios from Twins for Austin Martin, Simeon Woods-Richardson

[agkagk]

id rather have traded for gibson and kennedy from the rangers :S

[polo007]

What the Twins are getting in the two prospects acquired from the Blue Jays for Jose Bérrios: Keith Law - The Athletic

The Blue Jays continued an aggressive strategy at the trade deadline, sending their first overall pick from 2020 and one of the main pieces they got for Marcus Stroman to the Twins for starter José Bérrios.

Bérrios has been an incredibly consistent, reliable starter since becoming a full-time big leaguer in 2017; his ERA in each of the last five seasons has been between 3.48 (this year) and 4.00 (last year), and he hasn’t missed a start. He’s a command right-hander with a three-pitch mix, nothing truly plus except for maybe his curveball (I’d call it a strong grade-55 pitch), at his best when he’s locating his fastball away from the heart of the zone. Toronto’s rotation was supposed to have Nate Pearson in it by now, but with word that the Jays are going to move Pearson to the bullpen for the rest of this year, and Alek Manoah still on the IL with a back injury, they had a clear need for a reliable starter. Bérrios gives them innings and above-average run prevention, good enough to be their No. 3.

The Twins get two of the Jays’ top prospects coming into 2021, Austin Martin, No. 12 on my recent ranking of the top 50 prospects in baseball, and right-hander Simeon Woods-Richardson, but both guys who have slipped a little bit in Toronto’s and the industry’s eyes. Martin was the fifth overall pick in 2020, and was atop my draft board thanks to his combination of positional versatility, athleticism, and extremely high contact rates. The Jays assigned him right to Double A this spring to start his pro career; between that and a hand injury, he got off to a slow start, but he’s been improving as the season has progressed, hitting .289/.446/.398 since June 1st, .296/.500/.352 in 18 games so far in July.

His approach at the plate is superb and he has great hand-eye coordination to make contact, so there’s a high floor here, with several teams showing an increased interest in high-contact hitters in the last year or so. His swing has become more inside-out this year than it was at Vanderbilt, and he’s not using his legs enough to drive the ball, which explains the low ISO and overall lack of power. He’s played shortstop and centerfield this year for New Hampshire, and played third base in college, but his throwing has been inconsistent and I think center or second base are his two most likely long-term positions. His hands were always plus at third, and second may make the best use of his skills. I see a clear regular and leadoff hitter, with more upside if the Twins can get him in his legs more, but a muted ceiling until that happens.

Woods-Richardson’s velocity picked up after the Mets drafted him in 2018 and made him a full-time pitcher, but it has backed up since then and he’s been more fringe-average with his fastball along with a 50/55 changeup. He’s normally a strike-thrower, although this year he’s walked 13 percent of batters he’s faced after an aggressive placement in Double A, since he had just six starts in High A to close out 2019. His breaking ball remains below average, and his arm is extremely late relative to his landing leg, which, along with some stiffness through release, limits his velocity and north-south command. I think it all points to a more probable relief future than a starting one. That’s an everyday player with strong OBP skills and a small chance for some power, and a potentially above-average reliever with a small chance to start. For a year and a half of Bérrios, that sounds about right, even if these two prospects are more famous than their skills merit right now.

[Schad]

I was fine was trading SWR, but including Martin in a trade for Berrios is way overkill. It could've been something like SWR, Hiraldo, etc. Martin should not be in any trade unless we're getting an ace back.

If it could have been SWR, Hiraldo, etc. then they would have made that trade instead LOL. SWR isn't good enough to headline a trade for Berrios (who obviously had multiple teams driving the price up).

Read the actual breakdowns of these prospects. It's not as extreme as it appears at first glance.

Oh I totally understand that Berrios price was high. But if it wasn't enough to get it done without including the guy we just signed last year to the highest signing bonus in franchise history and who's put up a decent first pro season with power being the only flaw, I would've walked away from the deal. We are not a surefire contender this year by any means. And this seems like a premium price to pay for a no. 2-3 pitcher like Berrios who is a free agent after next season.

Yeah, Berrios' price was high because we have had an atypical (in recent years) feeding frenzy, with a bunch of teams making aggressive playoff pushes, particularly those in the NL West. But we really didn't need to invest so much in outbidding teams with WS aspirations, because by any rational measure our chances of going deep in the playoffs are really, really limited. The net benefit of throwing in now versus waiting until the offseason just isn't that massive; Fangraphs' playoff odds love us to bits (because they don't understand our selfish run problem) and still give us a 1 in 7 chance of playing in a real-by-god playoff round.

[vaff87]

We can only hope that Shatkins are right in their assessment of Berrios. He’s obviously a good pitcher now, but perhaps they see reasons to expect improvement? Of course, if that happens, we have to worry about how much money it would take to re-sign him.

[rarefind]

I mean worst case.... he's here for 14 months and we get a comp pick. I definitely wouldn't pull the trigger on this since we're more so contending to make a play in game as opposed to having a shot at a WS. But ah well... it is done. I would have been more upset if it was one of Orelvis/Moreno and perhaps even Groshans.

[Randle McMurphy]

Didn’t expect the Jays to trade from their prospect base this year but I’m kind of happy they at least showed the guts to do it. I’m not sure Berrios is the guy I’d have traded Austin Martin for but this appears to suggest to me the Jays had some concerns with his power ever developing with that swing and perhaps favoured others in the system (Orelvis?) over him. Also suggests that SWR’s prospect value has diminished completely this year (which is perhaps not surprising). I’m fine with it ultimately.

[Schad]

Didn’t expect the Jays to trade from their prospect base this year but I’m kind of happy they at least showed the guts to do it. I’m not sure Berrios is the guy I’d have traded Austin Martin for but this appears to suggest to me the Jays had some concerns with his power ever developing with that swing and perhaps favoured others in the system (Orelvis?) over him. Also suggests that SWR’s prospect value has diminished completely this year (which is perhaps not surprising). I’m fine with it ultimately.

Outside of very niche communities like this, trading players 98% of our fanbase has never heard of to get guys with All-Star appearances is always going to be received positively. It takes way more guts to follow through on a plan than it does to spunk a bunch of prospect capital up the wall just to show that you will.

That's always been the Rays' advantage: because they don't have fans, they can make actual, gutsy choices, and those choices generally involve taking the long view over short-term gain.

[polo007]

Twins trade José Berríos to Blue Jays for 2 prospects - The Athletic

What does Berríos bring to the Blue Jays?

Kaitlyn McGrath, Blue Jays beat writer: The Blue Jays are in win-now mode, with an explosive big-league offense that has a plus-97 run differential. That ranks fourth in the American League, but the team needed a boost in the starting rotation, especially if they want to make a push for the playoffs.

Berríos now gives the team a solid No. 3 starter, who will slot in behind Hyun Jin Ryu and Robbie Ray. It should also push one of Ross Stripling or Steven Matz to the bullpen, which can bolster that group too with a long guy.

And, bonus, Berríos, isn't a free agent until after next season, so he'll be part of next year's rotation, as well. That's smart planning by the Blue Jays, who could see both Ray and Matz exit in free agency after this season.

How happy should the Twins be with the return?

Aaron Gleeman, Twins beat writer: Very. Trading a player as valuable and well-liked as Berríos was never going to feel good, but the Twins maximized their return with a half-dozen contenders looking to add the team-controlled frontline starter.

Martin was the No. 5 pick in last year's draft and the 22-year-old shortstop/center fielder has a gaudy .424 on-base percentage at double-A in his taste of pro ball. Woods Richardson is a borderline top-100 global prospect averaging 13 strikeouts per nine innings at double-A as a 20-year-old.

They aren't without possible drawbacks — Martin's power is in question and so far, Woods Richardson is more about potential more than performance — but this is clearly a strong return for 1 1/2 seasons of Berríos.

[Randle McMurphy]

Didn’t expect the Jays to trade from their prospect base this year but I’m kind of happy they at least showed the guts to do it. I’m not sure Berrios is the guy I’d have traded Austin Martin for but this appears to suggest to me the Jays had some concerns with his power ever developing with that swing and perhaps favoured others in the system (Orelvis?) over him. Also suggests that SWR’s prospect value has diminished completely this year (which is perhaps not surprising). I’m fine with it ultimately.

Outside of very niche communities like this, trading players 98% of our fanbase has never heard of to get guys with All-Star appearances is always going to be received positively. It takes way more guts to follow through on a plan than it does to spunk a bunch of prospect capital up the wall just to show that you will.

That's always been the Rays' advantage: because they don't have fans, they can make actual, gutsy choices, and those choices generally involve taking the long view over short-term gain.

I just had concerns these guys would be risk-averse prospect huggers when it really mattered in the next couple of years of Vlad’s prime. My concerns have lifted now in that regard after this trade. Still don’t know that I would have made this particular move myself as I’m not the biggest fan of Berrios, but it can be justified if they are really convinced Martin will not hit for power. Serious backfire potential here though.

[JTT]

Yes, but that speaks to the strength of the system and those players, not necessarily that he's bad. I'm quite high on him and I think he'll be a good one.

No, SWR looks like a down-arrow guy. All the prospect guys are alluding to this. He didn't make BA's updated Top 100. He's been 90-93 for stretches this season and his usually stellar control (his best tool - he was never a huge "stuff" guy) has completely reversed out of nowhere. There has been lots of talk that his stuff is less sharp this year. He's still young, but keep in mind that even when we acquired him there were people questioning his ultimate upside because he's maxed out physically with good, but not stellar stuff. There are people who believe his realistic upside is more in tune with that of a back-end starter, so while on paper this looks like a big overpay, the internal (and external) evaluations of these two prospects have backed up since the beginning of the season.

This...Loooong time lurker, by the way. Even Martin has been downgraded by Fangraphs to an FVV50 and has apparently lost 8mph exit velocity in the transition from metal to wood bats. Would we be so worked up if we were talking about a high average, no power second basemen which is what is lack of arm strength is suggesting?

I agree we paid a high price, but these two assets were both starting to have their shine rubbed off and high level starting pitching is incredibly hard to find.

That said, we better find a way to extend Berrios

[agkagk]

Yes, but that speaks to the strength of the system and those players, not necessarily that he's bad. I'm quite high on him and I think he'll be a good one.

No, SWR looks like a down-arrow guy. All the prospect guys are alluding to this. He didn't make BA's updated Top 100. He's been 90-93 for stretches this season and his usually stellar control (his best tool - he was never a huge "stuff" guy) has completely reversed out of nowhere. There has been lots of talk that his stuff is less sharp this year. He's still young, but keep in mind that even when we acquired him there were people questioning his ultimate upside because he's maxed out physically with good, but not stellar stuff. There are people who believe his realistic upside is more in tune with that of a back-end starter, so while on paper this looks like a big overpay, the internal (and external) evaluations of these two prospects have backed up since the beginning of the season.

This...Loooong time lurker, by the way. Even Martin has been downgraded by Fangraphs to an FVV50 and has apparently lost 8mph exit velocity in the transition from metal to wood bats. Would we be so worked up if we were talking about a high average, no power second basemen which is what is lack of arm strength is suggesting?

I agree we paid a high price, but these two assets were both starting to have their shine rubbed off and high level starting pitching is incredibly hard to find.

That said, we better find a way to extend Berrios

I wonder if martins exit velocity and lack of power can be attributed to his early season hand injury.

[ItsDanger]

Berrios is consistent, keeps you in the games, goes 6 or 7 innings, little injury history. Ideal starter for our offense. I believe they can extend him after this contract. Its worth it. This team real weakness is the bullpen. That can be addressed in offseason if they think the problem isn't just bad injury luck.

[polo007]

Berrios was one of the Blue Jays' top targets at deadline - Sportsnet.ca

1:27 | July 30, 2021

GM Ross Atkins talks about why now was the time for the Toronto Blue Jays to make a big move at the trade deadline and bring in Jose Berrios.

[The_Hater]

That's a lot to give up... Lol this FO preaches patience then jumps the gun on adding pieces.

Purely not a coincidence that the team is back in town now. Trying to juice local interest.

They have been patient, but that doesn’t mean forever.

Having Berrios under team control certainly makes a lot more sense than a rental, which ups his price. The Jays once paid a ransom for 2 months of David Pirce.

[polo007]

Blue Jays acquire Berrios from Twins, Soria from Diamondbacks at trade deadline | CP24.com

TORONTO — The Toronto Blue Jays added to their pitching at the trade deadline Friday, acquiring starter Jose Berrios from the Minnesota Twins and veteran reliever Joakim Soria from the Arizona Diamondbacks.

With the successful deals and the Jays finally playing back home for the first time in 670 days, GM Ross Atkins called it "a very fulfilling day, for many reasons."

"And it's not just around Jose Berrios," he said. "But I think what it means for us taking another step -- the George Springer and Marcus Semien acquisitions, Hyun Jin Ryu the year before. Continuing to build upon the progression and the growth of Bo Bichette and Vladdy (Guerrero), and Cavan (Biggio) and Jordan Romero is exciting for us."

Berrios was the Jays' big acquisition of the day. The two-time all-star has a 7-5 record with a 3.48 earned-run average and 126 strikeouts over 20 starts with the Twins this season.

"We're thinking about next year too," said Jays manager Charlie Montoyo. "A guy like Berrios is one of the best starters in baseball. And now we've got control over him next year also. So I think that was a great move."

Toronto parted with two of its top prospects — infielder Austin Martin and right-handed pitcher Simeon Woods Richardson — to land the 27-year-old right-hander from Puerto Rico. Martin ranked 16th on MLB Pipeline's top prospects list while Woods Richardson was 68th.

Martin was second on MLB's ranking of Blue Jays prospects while Woods Richardson was fourth. Pitcher Nate Pearson is rated as the prospect in the Jays organization — ninth on the MLB overall list.

Atkins said while the price was high, Berrios was one of the Jays' top targets. Citing Berrios' durability, he called him "such a good fit for this team and this organization."

Berrios' ability to pitch deep into the game will also benefit the bullpen, Atkins added.

Later in the day, Toronto acquired Soria from the Diamondbacks for two players to be named later.

"The strike-throwing ability and (his) experiences, the combination I think will allow us another option in that (bull) pen " said Atkins.

The 37-year-old Soria has six saves this season, with a 4.30 earned-run average in 31 games. An American League all-star in 2008 and 2010, the Mexican right-hander has 229 career saves and 822 strikeouts with a 3.06 ERA.

The trades came at the end of a busy week

"It feel like it gets busier every year. Even if potentially your phone's not ringing, you're making others ring," Atkins said.

[Supermann98]

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Not to mention Moreno who they're trying over at 3rd, at least until he got hurt

[PowerPlant1]

This trade is a direct result of the reclamation product starting rotation we featured from the season's beginning. The unwillingness to sign a SP like Taijuan Walker caused the need for this deal.

One can theorize that they might have still made this trade anyway even had they had Walker to bolster the SP rotation even more but I doubt it because we may not have been as desperate as we clearly were now.

[The_Hater]

This trade is a direct result of the reclamation product starting rotation we featured from the season's beginning. The unwillingness to sign a SP like Taijuan Walker caused the need for this deal.

One can theorize that they might have still made this trade anyway even had they had Walker to bolster the SP rotation even more but I doubt it because we may not have been as desperate as we clearly were now.

People keep mentioning Walker, but fail to mention any of the other 2 dozen starting pitchers that Jays fans on this forum wanted to bring in, and they’re all struggled with command or injuries. So you’re basically asking why the Jays didn’t thread the needle in the off season because he’s literally one of the only few agent SP’s who isn’t shitin’ the bed. So getting someone who is actually effective and much better than Walker at the deadline was likely always the plan.

Anyways, the SP hasn’t been the problem the past 2 months, just the bullpen. Even stripling has been quite good. I just hope they don’t screw this up and just send Matz to the pen instead of Stripling. He gives us an extra effective arm down there too.

[C Court]

Keith Law’s take on Martin and SWR and how their game has slid a bit makes me feel better about the trade. If the Jays are legitimately unsure as to whether either will become legit major leaguers, then probably best to move them now.

[Kurtz]

Keith Law’s take on Martin and SWR and how their game has slid a bit makes me feel better about the trade. If the Jays are legitimately unsure as to whether either will become legit major leaguers, then probably best to move them now.

I can't believe that Keith Law of all people is now a salve to our wounds, but you're right.

Also, that son of a bitch may be proven right about Biggio after all. ****.