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I started watching MLB in 18-19 so I'm kind of new to it. In your opinion, what are the next 5-7 years looking like for Toronto?

Compared to last season do you expect win totals to trend up or down? Is a rebuild on the horizon, or does a Vladdy trade net assets to improve on their previous years win totals? Do you see Vladdy having a good year and making it back to the Jays?

I started watching during this rebuild and I'm kind of stunned at its current trajectory, interesting times!

I never viewed Vlad as a star player. He's very good but not $500M good. I think they low balled him on earlier extensions offers. But when previous extension talks failed, you should have traded him just like Nationals traded Soto. The gap was always too big and that's why Shatkins needs to go. Not proactive. They've screwed up this competitive window.

I expect team to be mediocre with a cloud hanging over them all season. However, I don't think Vlad's market is as big as he thinks in free agency, maybe 5? teams at most.

Unless farm system adds top prospects quickly, the next 5 years look bleak.

Treadmill team. Poor management. No farm system.

Shatkins will still be here telling us all how much smarter they are than all of us while the team wins 70-75 games every year.

Honestly it is pretty bleak. I'm surprised that Shatkins has been given yet another chance. But this has to be the last year - right - RIGHT?? Maybe if the team sucks they will finally can Shapiro and team and give James Click the opportunity to deal at the deadline. At this point they really should just tear it down to the studs and get as much as they can for Vlad, Bo, etc.

Can’t believe I’m arguing this, but the team’s ownership will keep things from getting really bad. They act like a big market team and big market teams rarely stay in the dumps for long, and although the farm system isn’t great, they’ve had some horrible injury luck on the pitching side that makes things seem worse than they probably are.
That said, I’m a fan and choose to look at this through my rose coloured glasses.

My expectations vary considerably depending on the status of Shatkins's contracts.

Sine they are sort of a treadmill now, they either break out of it by over performing this season, and perhaps keep Vlad and/or Bo, or they are 4th or 5th, in which case the dominos begin to fall by mid-season with trades leading to a rebuild. They have not shown, however, that they can develop top tier talent internally, so a rebuild, once it starts, will be a long one. In-demand free agents will look elsewhere until their options are reduced or exhausted.

JTT wrote:Can’t believe I’m arguing this, but the team’s ownership will keep things from getting really bad. They act like a big market team and big market teams rarely stay in the dumps for long, and although the farm system isn’t great, they’ve had some horrible injury luck on the pitching side that makes things seem worse than they probably are.
That said, I’m a fan and choose to look at this through my rose coloured glasses.

Imo this is why Toronto sports has and always will be abysmal. Seeing the stuff the fans accept is why MLSE will almost always prepare the treadmill. Its not about creating a championship team, it's about easy money shareholder value.

The Servant wrote:

JTT wrote:Can’t believe I’m arguing this, but the team’s ownership will keep things from getting really bad. They act like a big market team and big market teams rarely stay in the dumps for long, and although the farm system isn’t great, they’ve had some horrible injury luck on the pitching side that makes things seem worse than they probably are.
That said, I’m a fan and choose to look at this through my rose coloured glasses.

Imo this is why Toronto sports has and always will be abysmal. Seeing the stuff the fans accept is why MLSE will almost always prepare the treadmill. Its not about creating a championship team, it's about easy money shareholder value.

lol…fan acceptance has nothing to do with talent on the floor/field. You can go on being as angry as you want, it’s the stylish thing to do.
Maybe, I’m old (I am) but too many seasons go by in too many sports to be angry when your team doesn’t win, and surprise of all surprises, your team isn’t going to win often. Life is too short for that. Me, I’ll enjoy the game.

Most of us, me included probably, thought that at least Atkins would be sacrificed this off-season so we clearly have no idea. But it ain’t good. I was actually good with the deadline deals, especially for Kikuchi, and free agency was…not terrible if we’re competing. But now we’re in a Cold War with our best player and I have no idea what their overall plan is supposed to be, beyond we’re too cool for hitting.

Let's say we are out of the playoffs by the trade deadline. Do we trust this management team to get a good return for Vlad, Bo, etc for the next management team?

Fans will turn out. They like the sport. They don't mind average teams... the bandwagon types will just go with the trends... season will be better than last one... is it playoffs bound? Only if optimistic scenarios play out... I don't watch the sport. But I can see the core fans turning out ... they made some additions... vlad and bo have motivation... let's see.

We spent, we tried and failed. Trade Bichette, Berrios, Bassit, Gausman and Vlad at the deadline, refill the farm and try and compete in a few years. Our run is over, now its a chance for teams like BAL to shine for the next few years. But our management will try to save their jobs and probably trying buying in the deadline.

bluerap23 wrote:Let's say we are out of the playoffs by the trade deadline. Do we trust this management team to get a good return for Vlad, Bo, etc for the next management team?

Absolutely not, they would probably buy and pray the team turns it around.

TheProfessor wrote:We spent, we tried and failed. Trade Bichette, Berrios, Bassit, Gausman and Vlad at the deadline, refill the farm and try and compete in a few years. Our run is over, now its a chance for teams like BAL to shine for the next few years. But our management will try to save their jobs and probably trying buying in the deadline.

Not even sure they are capable of filling the farm with good players, atleast high end. We have went top 5 farm, to basically bottom 5. None of like our top 3 or 4 rounds in past like 8 years have amounted to anything.

So safe to stay not confident these guys will refill the cupboards.

bluerap23 wrote:Let's say we are out of the playoffs by the trade deadline. Do we trust this management team to get a good return for Vlad, Bo, etc for the next management team?

I believe the outcome also depends on how well Vladdy and Bo perform this season. If both of them struggle, the return we get may not be as favorable no matter what management team is running this team. However, we did receive a good haul with this management team for Kikuchi who was having a great season and who was set to become a free agent.

Yusei Kikuchi got us Jake Bloss, Joey Loperfido, and infielder Will Wagner.

I expect exactly what we’ve seen the last 3-4 seasons. High payroll team that will look to be a borderline playoff team every year. Some years they’ll make the post season (and not do much more), other down years they’ll blow up things at the deadline.

Ownership clearly wants the team to be competitive, but this FO lacks the vision and boldness needed to build a true contender