Blow this team up!

[Duffman100]

Everyone has to go. From JP, to Gibbons, to a majority of the players. We've let a infusion of apathy, lazyness, and lack of passion infuse into this team and now we're stuck with a team that is perpetually mediocre.

Get rid of 95% of this team and start over. Keep Rios, keep Hill, keep the young pitchers.

Sell Halladay, Burnett, Wells, try and get what you can.

This team is years away, possibly a decade away from contending. We need to start now.

[Geddy]

I have to say I disagree with that. I don't think the Jays are really that far from being a contender. The hardest thing to put together in baseball is a solid starting rotation and at the moment I'd say we have a very promising young core.

All we need are a couple of of hitters that can drive in major runs and we'll be fine. Just think what our record would be if we managed to score more than 5 runs in a game.

[Duffman100]

We need 2 or 3 good to great hitters to start having a 'contending' conversation. We don't have the pieces, nor the players coming up from the minors, to get those hitters. The only tradeable assests we have are the young pitching rotation we have.

I say we keep
Marcum
McGowan
Litsch
Jannsen
Accardo
Downs
Tallet

Hill
Rios

Everyone else is expendable. You deal Halladay, Burnett, Wells, Rolen, Eckstein, Overbay for draft picks/young kids from contenders and you start to rebuild. These players (other than maybe halladay) aren't players that are going to lead the team to a World Series.

[kelso]

I agree we aren't going to win this year, but I don't think we need to dismantle.

I think the fastest way to get REAL good young talent is to deal Halladay. we could get a King's ransom for him and if you moved Burnett as well, we could add at least 6 players for the future alongside the handful of studs we have now. Bring Purcey up and make due for the 5 spot until Janssen can fiull that role next year, or the likes of Cecil or anyone else from the minors. MCGowan and Marcum are for real and so is Litch.

Let the flaming begin....

[mini]

I'm not against dealing anyone. I do however think that if we aren't going to do a total rebuild, we need to keep Halladay. Unless you get blown away with an offer that includes a prospect that is likely a #1 starter in a few years, we can't afford to deal Roy. The major problem that I would see with dealing Roy is that it would then mean we should really deal Overbay, Burnett and Wells as well. It would be interesting to see what the Cubs/Rays/Cards/Philly would offer for Burnett (or even Halladay).

I'd like to keep Rolen because I like the way he plays the game and he seems like a winner and on-field leader.

[evilRyu]

Feel pretty bad about Roy... I think he deserves so much better than this crap.. He's probably the best current player who hasn't been in the post-season

[whiterasta80]

I'm definately in favour of blowing this team up, the current crop just doesn't cut it.
Here's my plan since I am bored.

1. Vernon Wells for Juan Pierre, James McDonald, and Hong-Chih Kuo

That contract is going to be an albatross in a few years, we take advantage of the Dodgers power outage and get rid of the contract. Juan Pierre at least gives us a decent leadoff man, McDonald is a low-mid level pitching prospect and Kuo gives us another lefty out of the bullpen.

2. Brett Cecil, and Scott Campbell for Jason Bay

I think that should be enough to get Jason Bay, I've heard that Campbell is a bit of a headcase so we take advantage of his otherworldly numbers right now and pick up a legit middle of the order guy. We can add McDonald or other mid-level prospects here if necessary

3. AJ Burnett, Scott Downs, and Gustavo Chacin for Rick Porcello
The days of ripping a team off for its top prospect with one player are probably over, but Burnett and Downs BOTH fill glaring holes for the Detroit Tigers. Their lineup is getting up there, and this trade might allow them to contend. Chacin is probably finished, but maybe the Tigers can turn him around. The picks they get if Burnett walks soften the blow of losing their top prospect.

3. Jeremy Accardo, and Adam Lind for Matt Laporta
Accardo gives the Brewers a proven closer going forward, and Lind replaces some of the hitting they're losing. We get a big time left handed bat who, along with Snider, should be ready sometime next year.

2008 lineup
Pierre
Rios
Bay
Stairs
Rolen
Overbay
Barajas
Hill
Eckstein

Halladay
Marcum
McGowan
Litsch
Purcy

That's no worse than the current lineup, its more balanced, has a traditional leadoff hitter who will steal 50, and we're rid of Wells contract (not that Pierre's is fantastic).

2009/2010 lineup

Pierre (CF) (later Eiland)
Hill (2B)
Bay (LF)
Snider (1B)
Rios (RF)
Laporta (DH)
Rolen/Ahrens (3B)
Diaz/Arencebia (C)
McDonald/other pickup (SS)

Halladay
McGowen
Marcum
Litsch
Purcey/Porcello

Obviously it'd require alot of people fulfilling their potential, but you have three guys with 30-40 HR potential (4 if you count Rios, 5 if you count Arencebia), our pitching staff is intact except Porcello has the potential to be the best of the bunch.


P.S. no use trading Halladay, the guy takes pay cuts to stay here.

[Duffman100]

Good plan! I like it.

I think my main desire for a blow up revolves around the atmosphere and tone of the team. It HAS to change.

[whiterasta80]

I couldn't agree more, we can't stand for a Shea Hillenbrand, Ted Lilly, Frank Thomas, or AJ Burnett incident happening every year, and the reason it happens is because the other players let it. Do you think Ivan Rodriequez would tolerate Joel Zumaya demanding a trade? He'd absolutely RIP the guy in the media as would Dombrowski and Leyland.

When conflict happens in our clubhouse what do we get? We get Paul Godfrey saying that he won't comment on it (or anything for that matter), We get John Gibbons saying something that is completely incoherant, We get JP saying that everyone has moved on (while the team loses 7 straight) and Vernon Wells goes out and buys tampons. The closest thing to a leader we've had in JP's tenure is Orlando Hudson who we sorely miss.

Obviously my plan includes the firing of JP and Gibby as well, though I forgot to mention it. Ironically, I've been pretty happy with JP's last 3 drafts so the scouting staff can stay.

As for his replacement: I'd make overtures to John Schuerholz and Doug Melvin. Failing that I'm after Bill Bavasi (just kidding)

[evilRyu]

Does the concept of "blowing a team up" work in baseball? Are there past examples of teams that has successfully done so? With no salary cap in baseball, it's all about the money for players.

[whiterasta80]

The Marlins did it after their WS win and won another one within 7 (I think) years. Plus they're in the process of doing it again with their current cast.

That said, there isn't a precedent for doing that in the AL East so point well taken.

However, even if blowing up the team doesn't bring success, it does have the potential to rekindle interest in the team. There's no doubt that the fans are souring on the current jays team and management. There are certain things that need to be done to this team before they will be able to generate fan interest again.

My plan included the acquisition of arguably the best Canadian player in the league (just look how popular Stairs is), the ridding of our fans two favourite whipping boys (Wells, Burnett), the acqusition of an exciting player (Pierre on the basepaths), and the acquisition of two elite prospects who have a chance of being very good major leaguers. Besides that the firing of JP and Gibby would be a message that .500 ball isn't good enough, a message that fans have been trying to send to the Jays for 15 years. I'm not saying my plan is the only route to success, but I think some of the elements of my plan are necessary before fans will get behind this team again.

[Duffman100]

Does the concept of "blowing a team up" work in baseball? Are there past examples of teams that has successfully done so? With no salary cap in baseball, it's all about the money for players.

At this point, what is the down side? What's the worst that can happen?

We're are currently last place in the division, but with a good enough record to not give us a top draft pick.

I'm confused as to where the optimism for this current team comes from. Someone earlier states that we are only a few pieces away from contending. We've been saying as a team for like 7 years...and every year we're mediocre.

This team needs a facelift and needs it now. If not, we're going to continue down a path of band aid veteran solutions with no successful farm system to build from.

[whiterasta80]

This team needs a facelift and needs it now. If not, we're going to continue down a path of band aid veteran solutions with no successful farm system to build from.

And I think we agree that the facelift will be an empty gesture unless it includes the firing of JP.

See ya JP, don't let the door hit you on the way out, we'll miss the annual trade to help out Oakland in January.

[Duffman100]

This team needs a facelift and needs it now. If not, we're going to continue down a path of band aid veteran solutions with no successful farm system to build from.

And I think we agree that the facelift will be an empty gesture unless it includes the firing of JP.

See ya JP, don't let the door hit you on the way out, we'll miss the annual trade to help out Oakland in January.

Agreed. I can't imagine us missing the playoffs again (which we clearly will) and have JP and Gibbons back. I will cry myself to sleep all next year if that happens, its the one saving grace I'm taking from this season.

[whiterasta80]

Agreed. I can't imagine us missing the playoffs again (which we clearly will) and have JP and Gibbons back. I will cry myself to sleep all next year if that happens, its the one saving grace I'm taking from this season.

I understand the reasoning behind keeping Gibby, but if we are indeed canning him, why keep JP. This team has alot of chips that would be attractive to teams at the deadline, and the idea of JP being in charge of those trades scares me. I just worry that he'll ship Dustin McGowan for Bobby Kielty or something

[mini]

I don't know a lot about other teams prospects and all so I can't offer trade ideas but I would definitely be trying to unload the following players:
Overbay (maybe the Rays, A's or Giants might be interested)
Burnett (I'm sure he could garner a lot of interest around the league but we would have to receive something better than the draft picks we'd get as compensation when he's a FA)
Wells (Dodgers, Giants, Cards, Braves maybe?)
Accardo
Barajas (minimal value)
and maybe Rolen (although I really like him as a player)

Other than that, I can't see any of our other 'vets' as having much of a value in the trade market.

This goes along with getting rid of JP and Gibby.

[evilRyu]

Does the concept of "blowing a team up" work in baseball? Are there past examples of teams that has successfully done so? With no salary cap in baseball, it's all about the money for players.

At this point, what is the down side? What's the worst that can happen?

We're are currently last place in the division, but with a good enough record to not give us a top draft pick.

I'm confused as to where the optimism for this current team comes from. Someone earlier states that we are only a few pieces away from contending. We've been saying as a team for like 7 years...and every year we're mediocre.

This team needs a facelift and needs it now. If not, we're going to continue down a path of band aid veteran solutions with no successful farm system to build from.

Good point, might as well just start from scratch.

But with the rules in baseball, it's just tougher to do so.. if draft picks were tradeable, it would be give fans a sense of a rebuilding injection.

But as others have said, we may not be that far off.

[Geddy]

I think the thing that stands in the way of going down the major rebuilding route is ticket sales and fan support. Your average fan would not take too kindly to rebuilding and would probably mean a decline in attendance. The attendance really dropped in the mid 90s, and has steadily started to increase over the past few years because of these possible naive hopes that the team just might be a contender. If we were to just start trading away our good players it would give a lot of people the impression that the team was just conceding for a few years (even though they probably would not see the benefit of rebuilding, you can't stop people from thinking that way).

[whiterasta80]

The thing is that Attendance was on a steady rise until about mid-way through last season. Since then it has steadily decreased, an indication that fans a disillusioned with the current regime. Personally I think a young, improving group would attract fans rather than scare them away.

Besides that I'm not sure that a complete blowup needs to be done. For example a swap of Vernon Wells for Juan Pierre represents a major change in the team, but I'm not sure it would make our team any less successful.

[Michael Bradley]

The Jays have a playoff calibre pitching staff, but a bottom feeder offense. It's easier to find offense than pitching, so saying the Jays are not that far off is probably accurate. Unfortunately, they do not have the expendable prospects that could land a Jason Bay type, and realistically, they would need more than that to have a playoff offense. The team right now is stuck in limbo. Maybe they wait it out and incorporate Lind and Snider into their offense in 2009 (two LH power bats) if Snider proves to be as ready as Jay Bruce is this year. But then they still have to replace Burnett, Eckstein, and Zaun/Barajas with players as good or better than them, and pushing Snider that hard may have negative effects.

Long-term, I think the Jays would be better off rebuilding. Selling a Roy Halladay trade to the fans and media would be impossible, but unfortunately, that might be a necessity. The Jays are screwed after 2010 anyway (when Halladay is a FA) so they have to decide whether they can win in 2009-10 or whether they sell high on Roy and build for the future. With the way the Rays are positioned, and the Yankees/Red Sox having unlimited resources, it's going to take more than a treadmill 85 win team to stand a chance at playoff contention.

The worst part is, we wasted the prime of one of the best pitchers in Jays history. Making the playoffs even once with Halladay would have been fantastic, but his loyalty has not been rewarded, and probably never will be, at least in a Jays uniform.