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Are red-hot Blue Jays for real?
Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 10:12 pm
by LittleOzzy
You can dissect the Toronto Blue Jays’ extraordinary start six ways from Sunday, and perhaps discover nothing more conclusive than the summation offered by closer B.J. Ryan.
After Sunday’s 1-0 win over the Oakland A’s, Ryan described the Jays as “a bunch of guys believing in the same thing and going out there and playing good, sound baseball.”
An apt description of the Jays’ first two weeks, no doubt. But beyond such cliches, the question remains: Is the Major League Baseball club’s 10-4 start an illusion or a sign of something more enduring?
The answer may not become clear until mid-season, if then. But if the Jays can maintain their current momentum through a favourable early-season schedule, they just might shake things up in the already jumbled American League East.
Yes, the previous paragraph contained a “may,” two “ifs” and a “just might.”
Which is to say, it is very early to be drawing conclusions about a team universally picked to finish fourth in a five-team division.
http://www.canada.com/Sports/Blue+Jays+ ... story.html
Re: Are red-hot Blue Jays for real?
Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 11:16 pm
by CapeCrusader
I'm just happy we have a toronto team to cheer for lol.
Re: Are red-hot Blue Jays for real?
Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 11:17 pm
by CapeCrusader
Can't imagine how much better we would be if Marcum and McGowen were pitching for us this season.
Re: Are red-hot Blue Jays for real?
Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 12:54 pm
by tsherkin
I suspect Marcum and McGowan would have a larger (read: massive) hand in us playing better later in the season because they've beaten the rookie wall, they've seen some of these batters much more often and they'd help us rely less on our 'pen and keep them fresh for when we really need it.
But I don't know that they'd make us a lot better over the first 20, 30 games.
Re: Are red-hot Blue Jays for real?
Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 3:35 pm
by arrpy
Lets just hope they can keep this up for the season, and actually make the post-season! Which they haven't done in a while now...
That'd be sweet to watch a Blue Jays playoff series!
Re: Are red-hot Blue Jays for real?
Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 4:51 pm
by tsherkin
I would settle for a tie-breaker, not even the ALDS or wildcard...
Re: Are red-hot Blue Jays for real?
Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 7:20 pm
by s e n s i
tsherkin wrote:I would settle for a tie-breaker, not even the ALDS or wildcard...
Last year we were only like 5 games back at one point in September and I was already jacked. If we can even be
in contention for a tie-breaker, I'd be pumped.
Re: Are red-hot Blue Jays for real?
Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 7:21 pm
by Kosta
Let's see how they rebound after last night's disappointment and how they fare in Chicago. Last night's loss pulled me a back a bit, not because they fell to 10-5, but because it was a very winnable game that they squandered away. So far I like watching this team, but it's way too early to tell if they are for real and their offense has taken a step back since the Oakland series. Mainly Snider and Lind.
Re: Are red-hot Blue Jays for real?
Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 7:50 pm
by tsherkin
chocolateSensi wrote:tsherkin wrote:I would settle for a tie-breaker, not even the ALDS or wildcard...
Last year we were only like 5 games back at one point in September and I was already jacked. If we can even be
in contention for a tie-breaker, I'd be pumped.
Yep. Given the losses of Burnett, Marcum and McGowan and the general suckitude of Wells and Rios against their contracts, I'd be well-pleased if we were in contention. I love the Jays in a way the Raptors will never drag out of me.
Kosta wrote:Let's see how they rebound after last night's disappointment and how they fare in Chicago. Last night's loss pulled me a back a bit, not because they fell to 10-5, but because it was a very winnable game that they squandered away. So far I like watching this team, but it's way too early to tell if they are for real and their offense has taken a step back since the Oakland series. Mainly Snider and Lind.
It was a terrible game because Wells did exactly what he's paid not to do but does so well... suck in the clutch. He's below league-average in terms of cashing in RISP (by about 14%). In a tightly-contested game against Francisco (who has not been a terribly good pitcher historically aside from last year and his rookie season) and he came up as dry as ever.
That said, the Jays were 2/10 with RISP on the game and Wells did cash in a run earlier in the game on one of his many hitless AB. But yeah, not taking advantage of the BASES BEING LOADED was something that killed the game and was really, really frustrating.
EDIT: Shades of Dave Stewart pulling a scoreless inning out of his rear back in the '93 playoffs, remember that? Loaded the bases and then got 3 straight outs?
Re: Are red-hot Blue Jays for real?
Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 8:15 pm
by Avenger
Someone bought up earlier about something Mike Wilner said, its about the Jays always playing tough against our AL east opponents especially the Yanks and the Red Sox. What really killed us the years before was losing to teams like Cleveland, Minessota, Oakland. If we can beat up on the teams we're supposed to, the Jays have a decent shot at the playoffs given how hard they play against AL east teams
Re: Are red-hot Blue Jays for real?
Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 2:15 am
by J-Roc
Not if Halladay and BJ can't get their jobs done.
Re: Are red-hot Blue Jays for real?
Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 3:16 am
by tsherkin
Halladay had one bad game, it happens. He's still basically the best pitcher in the league.
Re: Are red-hot Blue Jays for real?
Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 3:33 am
by evilRyu
Avenger wrote:Someone bought up earlier about something Mike Wilner said, its about the Jays always playing tough against our AL east opponents especially the Yanks and the Red Sox. What really killed us the years before was losing to teams like Cleveland, Minessota, Oakland. If we can beat up on the teams we're supposed to, the Jays have a decent shot at the playoffs given how hard they play against AL east teams
Agreed...... we've won so far against non AL East teams thus far, so that's a great thing.. it's weird how we won't be seeing AL East competition until May.. oh well
Re: Are red-hot Blue Jays for real?
Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 5:44 am
by Mustard_Tiger
J-Roc wrote:Not if Halladay and BJ can't get their jobs done.
Somebody is honestly knocking the best pitcher in baseball? Because he was hit by the Rangers?
Wow....the guy has 3 wins already, and without him they would be one of the worst teams in the league.
To answer the original question....let's wait until July and see. I suspect they won't keep this up, but it's fun while it lasts.
Re: Are red-hot Blue Jays for real?
Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 11:49 am
by J-Roc
Mustard_Tiger wrote:J-Roc wrote:Not if Halladay and BJ can't get their jobs done.
Somebody is honestly knocking the best pitcher in baseball? Because he was hit by the Rangers?
Wow....the guy has 3 wins already, and without him they would be one of the worst teams in the league.
To answer the original question....let's wait until July and see. I suspect they won't keep this up, but it's fun while it lasts.
C'mon Mustard, I know you're better than that. I wouldn't knock Doc if I didn't know he was knocking himself. He knows how important it is that he wins games, especially at home, and especially when he's given more than a couple of runs to work with. That's what makes Doc who he is. He's not the type that would say, "well a win is a win". And we know there are other so-called stars who have that losing attitude.
Re: Are red-hot Blue Jays for real?
Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 2:01 pm
by Mustard_Tiger
If "being better than that" is pointlessly criticizing the best pitcher in the league for one of his rare bad starts, then no I'm not. Or maybe I'm just sensible and realize the length of a major league baseball season, it's a matter of opinion I guess.
The bottom line here: Halladay gives up 5 runs a couple of times every season. He's not perfect (especially not against the best offensive team in the league). What makes him better than everybody else is that he has so few of these starts that it isn't really worth talking about the bad ones when they happen.
To say something like "only if Halladay and BJ can get their jobs done" in response to this question is just ridiculous. Even to name Doc Halladay in the same sentence as our terrible closer is an insult. J to the R-O-C...I would hope that YOU are better than that.
Re: Are red-hot Blue Jays for real?
Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 4:13 pm
by J-Roc
Thanks for reminding me of my post. I said we wouldn't be for real of Halladay and BJ can't get their jobs done. If you disagree with that, then yes we're on different pages.
Re: Are red-hot Blue Jays for real?
Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 4:19 pm
by tsherkin
Just to chime in... J-Roc's not wrong. Independent of his reasoning, if our best player and our closer aren't getting it done, we have no chance. Halladay is as likely as it gets to "get it done," but it's not wrong to say what J did.
Re: Are red-hot Blue Jays for real?
Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 5:23 pm
by s e n s i
I rarely, I mean rarely agree with Mustard_Tigress, but I have to here. Yeah, of course if our Ace and supposed closer can't get their jobs done we won't be "for real". But that was said by J-Roc in a reactionary context. This was Doc's FIRST bad outing of the season by Roy Halladay standards, and tbh it wasn't even that bad. I didn't walk outta the Rogers Centre nearly as upset about Doc's performance as I was about leaving the bases juiced in the 8th, and leaving Hill in scoring position in the 9th. Doc is going to have games like that, and if it's once every 4 or 5 starts, so what? He left a few pitches up in the zone and got pounded by the best long-ball hitting team in baseball. We really can't expect Doc to have a CG SO EVERY single game.
BJ Ryan on the other hand, has already blown 2 saves, has looked shaky in every outing except one, where he still let a runner on base IIRC. To use the two in the same context about "getting it done" is absurd. It's as if Doc hasn't been getting it done. He had one rough outing, and out of a possible 30+, that is expected and accepted. Like Jamie Campbell reiterated yesterday, if Doc never made mistakes last year, he would have been 33-0.
Re: Are red-hot Blue Jays for real?
Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 5:36 pm
by Mustard_Tiger
J-Roc wrote:Thanks for reminding me of my post. I said we wouldn't be for real of Halladay and BJ can't get their jobs done. If you disagree with that, then yes we're on different pages.
Halladay is going to get his job done. He's Roy Halladay.