RealGM

http://baseball.realgm.com/src_wiretap_ ... x_excuses/

Ho-ly CRAP this is refreshing. I'm so **** tired of the defeatist attitude regarding the division. Everyone already **** knows that they Yankees and Red Sox are in this division. We already know. So there's no point in discussing it anymore.

Anthopoulos is already a breath of fresh air.

Heh, JP said the exact same thing, and I'm pretty sure we regarded him as a breath of fresh air at the time, too. Everyone comes in saying 'no excuses' and leaves with a folder full.

I agree that this is a breath of fresh air over Ricciardi's excuses. Even Jays fans are coming here talking about how it is impossible to win the AL East and pointing to run differential as some sort of medal of honor. Either you can win or you can't. If you feel that feat is impossible in this division, then hire someone who doesn't feel that way. If anything, being in this division is going to make it that much sweeter if/when the Jays finally do make it back to the playoffs (which is hopefully before all of us die).

Whether AA feels this way a few years from now is a different story, but he doesn't strike me as being the arrogant prick that Ricciardi was here so even if he does fail I don't think we will see him making those types of excuses as often as JP did.

When asked about Gaston, why did Anthopoulos reply, 'I don't know, ask Beeston.' What kind of authority is that? He's a first-time GM... I just don't know how you can get that excited. There's obviously still alot of dysfunction in the Jays organization, and a huge mess to clean up.

komodo19 wrote:When asked about Gaston, why did Anthopoulos reply, 'I don't know, ask Beeston.' What kind of authority is that? He's a first-time GM... I just don't know how you can get that excited. There's obviously still alot of dysfunction in the Jays organization, and a huge mess to clean up.

Disagree. Every position has a role and that isn't in his role to make a decision on Gaston right now. Plus, Beeston regards Cito as a very good friend of his. I wouldn't want to piss of my boss by attacking his buddy - he played that very well.

Kevin Willis wrote:

komodo19 wrote:When asked about Gaston, why did Anthopoulos reply, 'I don't know, ask Beeston.' What kind of authority is that? He's a first-time GM... I just don't know how you can get that excited. There's obviously still alot of dysfunction in the Jays organization, and a huge mess to clean up.

Disagree. Every position has a role and that isn't in his role to make a decision on Gaston right now. Plus, Beeston regards Cito as a very good friend of his. I wouldn't want to piss of my boss by attacking his buddy - he played that very well.

Of course he played the angle well, but there should be no angle to play, period. Get rid of the politics and just make good baseball decisions.

My question with the 'no excuses' thing: what, in practice, does that mean? Does it mean we're prepared to spend big and try and compete? Or try to follow teams like the Twins and A's in building a young, inexpensive, core through the draft? Or follow Ricciardi's model, which was to selectively add enough high-priced veterans to keep the team within striking distance, but never deviate far enough from the middle road to challenge the Sox and Yanks?

That's my problem with the statement: it means absolutely nothing unless it is backed by a comprehensive plan. And as the Jays lack the deep pockets necessary for option a), and lack the testicular fortitude for option b), I don't see how Anthopolous is going to be any different...unless we assume that he is going to be one of the top-3 GMs in the entire league essentially from day one. Because without a massive long-term rebuild or an extra $60m/year, absolute perfection in the draft, trades and signings is the only conceivable way we can compete.

I never understood using the division as an excuse in the first place. You have to win more then 87 games to use it is an excuse, which the JP Jays never did. When did the Jays ever have a team that was a top 4 team in the AL under the JP regime... or even that close to it?

You have to one year where you have a playoff level team and won 90+ games, or a year you had a top four record in the AL.

While it may be harder to make the playoffs out of the East, it is has NOT been really (if any) harder to win 90 games out of this division from 2002-2007. Despite the strength of the Yanks / Sox, it was evenly balanced by the utter ineptitude of the Orioles and Rays over the period.

Only in 2008 and 2009 has the division as a whole been dominant. And in 2009 its irrelevant because the Jays sucked. So one year out of eight, did a decent Jays team have a record that may have been altered by some significance (say 2-5 games) due to the division they played in.

youngLion wrote:http://baseball.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/17005/20091008/new_jays_gm_doesnt_want_any_yankees/red_sox_excuses/

Ho-ly CRAP this is refreshing. I'm so **** tired of the defeatist attitude regarding the division. Everyone already **** knows that they Yankees and Red Sox are in this division. We already know. So there's no point in discussing it anymore.

There's no point in discussing the massive financial advantages these organizations have on the Jays? It seems kind of relevant to our situation.

Michael Bradley wrote:Whether AA feels this way a few years from now is a different story, but he doesn't strike me as being the arrogant prick that Ricciardi was here so even if he does fail I don't think we will see him making those types of excuses as often as JP did.

JP wasn't like that in his early years. He changed after 3 years on the job...I think the pressure of keeping his role got to him.

JN wrote:I never understood using the division as an excuse in the first place. You have to win more then 87 games to use it is an excuse, which the JP Jays never did. When did the Jays ever have a team that was a top 4 team in the AL under the JP regime... or even that close to it?

You have to one year where you have a playoff level team and won 90+ games, or a year you had a top four record in the AL.

While it may be harder to make the playoffs out of the East, it is has NOT been really (if any) harder to win 90 games out of this division from 2002-2007. Despite the strength of the Yanks / Sox, it was evenly balanced by the utter ineptitude of the Orioles and Rays over the period.

Only in 2008 and 2009 has the division as a whole been dominant. And in 2009 its irrelevant because the Jays sucked. So one year out of eight, did a decent Jays team have a record that may have been altered by some significance (say 2-5 games) due to the division they played in.

The thing is, this division not only makes it impossible for us to make the playoffs but it also makes it way harder for us to win games because we're seeing the skankees and the sox(and the Rays) 18 times a year. Adjusted Rankings(for strength of schedule, run differentials) almost always have the Jays at way better record, i could be wrong but at one point the Jays were 4th best in baseball according to those rankings.

I've posted this before, but here it is again since it was brought up.

These are the standings based on run differential. Think of it as the true quality of a team, because it accounts for run environment and strength of opponents.

2006 - 91-71, 3rd in both the AL and the majors. http://web.archive.org/web/200610050009 ... ndings.php
2007 - 87-75, 5th in the AL, 8th best in the majors. http://web.archive.org/web/200710050322 ... ndings.php
2008 - No link available yet, but they finished 92-70, 5th best in the majors, yet 4th in the AL East!
2009 - 84-78, 6th in the AL, 11th in the majors. http://www.baseballprospectus.com/stati ... ndings.php

Two additional things to note: In 2009, the Jays were the first team since 1918 to have a positive run differential and still finish 10 games below .500. In 2007, the Jays lost an all time record of games to injuries.

So if you want to just write these things off as "excuses", go ahead, but in the process you'd just be making excuses yourself in order to direct your frustration somewhere. Blame the situation and circumstances, but recognize that this was one of the best in the majors for a 3 year stretch.

great!

Mustard_Tiger wrote:

youngLion wrote:http://baseball.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/17005/20091008/new_jays_gm_doesnt_want_any_yankees/red_sox_excuses/

Ho-ly CRAP this is refreshing. I'm so **** tired of the defeatist attitude regarding the division. Everyone already **** knows that they Yankees and Red Sox are in this division. We already know. So there's no point in discussing it anymore.

There's no point in discussing the massive financial advantages these organizations have on the Jays? It seems kind of relevant to our situation.

Of course it's relevant, but there's no point in rehashing it over and over and over. The fans, the players and management are all aware of what being in the AL East entails, so why bother bringing it up in every interview and soundbite?

Shad asked what this actually means in practice, well to me it means not falling back on this same old excuse every time you say anything about the team or the league.