RealGM

Didn't see this posted anywhere so...

http://network.nationalpost.com/NP/blog ... ogers.aspx

“I’m not saying you have to have money to be successful,” Ricciardi said, “but if you don’t have money you’d better be willing to go seven or eight years of bad baseball before you start seeing the fruits of those No. 1 picks getting up to the majors.”

Ricciardi was the Jays’ GM for eight years without taking the team to the playoffs. According to the website Cot’s Baseball Contracts, his lowest opening-day payroll was US$45.7-million in 2005 and his highest was US$98-million in 2008.

Is this guy nuts? He says he wanted 7-8 years. It's been 8 years, this team is no where near playoff contention. What a tool.

Paul Beeston talked about this with Bob McCown and he said he was very disappointed about what JP said and categorically denied that JP's requests for money were not approved at any point.

Avenger wrote:Paul Beeston talked about this with Bob McCown and he said he was very disappointed about what JP said and categorically denied that JP's requests for money was was not approved at any point.

When did Paul Beeston come back, again? And in what world does a team president not say this?

Avenger wrote:Paul Beeston talked about this with Bob McCown and he said he was very disappointed about what JP said and categorically denied that JP's requests for money were not approved at any point.

Ya I heard that on my way home from work, which is why I looked for what exactly JP said.

Didn't he have a 5 year plan when he started here? Rogers did increase the payroll and his moneyball mentality went out the window. We had draft picks that went nowhere (Adams any body), free agent signings that turned into jokes (Frank Thomas anyone). He had his shot. He didn't do a terrible job at developing young talent but you have to go har or go home. He sat on the fence with spending cash or drafting number one picks. The Yanks and Red Sox spend cash, the Rays developed picks...we sat on the fence. Look at where those teams all are today.

He wanted more time? There was none to be had. Halladay would be gone regardless of what he did the next couple of years. AA has done more in his first few months as GM than Riccardi did his entire tenure. AA has a plan. JP through things at the wall and hoped they stuck.

Sour grapes.

Not cool.

JP was given ample oppurtunity to both develop a team with picks and young players but also build the team around some Free Agent Signings. He failed miserably at both.

He drafted pretty terribly early on electing to go with more ready college level talent, rather than taking flyers on guys from high school, or those who were a hard sign. He finally tried it last year with Paxton, Barrett, Eliopaulus etc, but he failed at that also.

He was pretty terrible when it came to Free Agent signings as well. Frank Thomas was the Big Hurt to the Blue Jays..just in the pocketbook. BJ Ryan has 1 decent year then fell off the face of the Earth and AJ Burnett learnt how to pitch once he was in his option year and peaced after that season.

Only thing to JP's credit is he was a decent trading GM. Getting guys like Scutaro, Stewart, Accardo, Overbay (dealt a no. 4 outfielder and a #4 pitcher) and others.

Actually, the Jays were one of the better teams in baseball for several years there. Unfortunately, Rogers didn't give enough money to get them over the hump...particularly in 2008 when all it would have taken was another hitter. Our owners have always been content with winning 80+ games and making a profit, so it's not any wonder that they've never progressed further than that.

squeekysneakers wrote:He wanted more time? There was none to be had. Halladay would be gone regardless of what he did the next couple of years. AA has done more in his first few months as GM than Riccardi did his entire tenure. AA has a plan. JP through things at the wall and hoped they stuck.

I love the revisionist history. There weren't many critics of JP for the first 3-4 years there, and most baseball fans believed he had a very good plan for the Jays (building a team cheaply around college-drafted players).

I have high hopes for AA, but it wouldn't surprise me in 5 years time if people start saying the same things about AA.

Rogers gave him a ton of cash and 8 years to do something with this team and he failed miserably.

Nolan wrote:Rogers gave him a ton of cash and 8 years to do something with this team and he failed miserably.

If by fail miserably, you mean make Rogers a profit every year by winning 80+ games and giving people enough to hype themselves up about, then yeah.

There is a reason he kept the job so long, you know.

Rogers made a profit? Are you sure about that? Ticket sales were pretty bad (my mom works for Rogers, she says the Blue Jays are one of the worst off assets for Rogers in terms of revenue).

This attitude of blaming the owners for the teams faults is really stupid. Everyone says the same thing about MLSE.

JP wasted an ass load of money on that Vernon Wells contract. How bout that? That's like 1/4 of the teams salary.

raps4life~ wrote:Rogers made a profit? Are you sure about that? Ticket sales were pretty bad (my mom works for Rogers, she says the Blue Jays are one of the worst off assets for Rogers in terms of revenue).

Yes, I'm positive. The Blue Jays' value to their corporation goes far behind ticket sales and into television, and especially advertising. They would have sold the team a long time ago if it wasn't beneficial to their business, just as they would have fired JP years ago if he was hindering the Jays financially.

This attitude of blaming the owners for the teams faults is really stupid. Everyone says the same thing about MLSE.

MLSE has to deal with a salary cap/luxury tax in both the NHL and NBA. Back when the NHL didn't have a salary cap, the Leafs had one of the highest payrolls in the NHL. Although they are also somewhat content with mediocrity because they know fans will buy the product, anyway.

JP wasted an ass load of money on that Vernon Wells contract. How bout that? That's like 1/4 of the teams salary.

I didn't say JP did a good job, did I? I just don't let hatred for individuals blind me from looking at both sides of issues.

“I’m not saying you have to have money to be successful,” Ricciardi said, “but if you don’t have money you’d better be willing to go seven or eight years of bad baseball before you start seeing the fruits of those No. 1 picks getting up to the majors.”

JP's point here, by the way, is that Rogers was not willing to go through a massive rebuilding stage like the Rays did, which you basically need to do in the AL East if you want to contend. Unless of course you choose to use your massive amounts of money to win like the Yankees and Sox do.

Rogers wanted results quickly (even if they were only 80+ wins seasons, and after they got a taste of success in 2003, they wanted more.

Let's hope they are willing to stick with a long rebuilding process with AA, but I have my doubts.

Randle McMurphy wrote:

“I’m not saying you have to have money to be successful,” Ricciardi said, “but if you don’t have money you’d better be willing to go seven or eight years of bad baseball before you start seeing the fruits of those No. 1 picks getting up to the majors.”

JP's point here, by the way, is that Rogers was not willing to go through a massive rebuilding stage like the Rays did, which you basically need to do in the AL East if you want to contend. Unless of course you choose to use your massive amounts of money to win like the Yankees and Sox do.

Rogers wanted results quickly (even if they were only 80+ wins seasons, and after they got a taste of success in 2003, they wanted more.

Let's hope they are willing to stick with a long rebuilding process with AA, but I have my doubts.

How long are you going to give him? 20 years?

It's not like JP didn't have money. At a top of nearly $100M that's top ten in the league. There are far better teams that have much less salaries than that.

IMO, he was given money, he had a tons of high draft picks, he had 8 years, and he did SQUAT.

I don't see how you can put this on Rogers.

If they honestly thought that JP was doing a fine job bringing in money, why fire him now?

I know it's all fun to blame Rogers for all the worlds issues because of their other products and services, but I don't think they did anything wrong with their management of the Jays.

what a maroon!

He's loud, he's obnoxious, he just doesn't know how to shut up....



which is why he's perfect for ESPN.

raps4life~ wrote:How long are you going to give him? 20 years?

Preferably longer than what they did before they decided to move away from the rebuilding process. If it happens again with AA, we're more than screwed.

It's not like JP didn't have money. At a top of nearly $100M that's top ten in the league. There are far better teams that have much less salaries than that.

We're not competing with the top ten in the league. To make the playoffs, we have to be one of the two best teams in baseball. The Jays were a top 10 team for a few years there with their top 10 payroll, but that wasn't good enough.

I don't see how you can put this on Rogers.

It's easy. They run the Jays with a focus to make a profit for their shareholders (80+ win mediocrity is enough to do that) and not to win. Just like most businesses and owners in baseball. Unfortunately that isn't good enough to win in a division where the Yankees and Red Sox's main focus is winning at all costs.

he did pretty much win every single noteworthy trade he made =P

Randle McMurphy wrote:

raps4life~ wrote:How long are you going to give him? 20 years?

Preferably longer than what they did before they decided to move away from the rebuilding process. If it happens again with AA, we're more than screwed.

It's not like JP didn't have money. At a top of nearly $100M that's top ten in the league. There are far better teams that have much less salaries than that.

We're not competing with the top ten in the league. To make the playoffs, we have to be one of the two best teams in baseball. The Jays were a top 10 team for a few years there with their top 10 payroll, but that wasn't good enough.

I don't see how you can put this on Rogers.

It's easy. They run the Jays with a focus to make a profit for their shareholders (80+ win mediocrity is enough to do that) and not to win. Just like most businesses and owners in baseball. Unfortunately that isn't good enough to win in a division where the Yankees and Red Sox's main focus is winning at all costs.

Do you have any proof of what you are saying? It sounds like you are just pulling stuff out of your ass.

For the time JP has been here Jays have been a bottom 5-10 team in terms of revenue in the league. (Forbes)

Ya, that's the goal of any owner, be one of the least profitable in your industry...

According to Beeston they fired him as early as possible. He has taken this franchise nowhere.

Further proof that JP is exactly what I always thought he was. Incompetent. He could talk his away out of his incompetence for 3-4 years but it was all downhill from there. But that hasn't stopped him from trying to put a different spin on things.