Denver @ Atlanta

[Gutz]

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Hey that's all right if you condone a bad call. Like I said, the Nuggets are capable of shutting down an opponent in the Jekyl-Hyde like fashion. That means no fouls and run the floor. 93+2=95+2=97 is where I got the numbers - and we're talking about just shots, forget about the bonus for a second. We're talking just possessions.

And that's right, whining doesn't do anything, but only the squeaky wheel gets oiled.

There was 1:47 left on the clock I believe when the first, and most undeniably obvious push, came from. No one whined about that for too long and then we come to :38 left. That's a couple of possessions and more importantly, momentum, that you can't just write off.

And like I said, Hawks probably win anyway. So what you whining about?

I'm not whining about anything. Just responding to your griping. Since when do the Nuggets play ANY defense? They have one hell of an offense but are by no means known for having any defense. Give me a break. So your assuming the Nuggets are going to score there on 2 straight possessions to get to 97 before any of the no-call fouls occurred? And that the Hawks would not get any FT attempts? Shut down defense? Please!

[conleyorbust]

To put it in perspective though, bad calls happen all through the game. Melo got a BS foul called on Josh Smith with about 6 minutes in the first quarter on a little spin move where it was pretty obvious he wasn't fouled. No one is gonna complain about that but it helped put our best defender in foul trouble which could have changed the complexion of the game. The fact that AI and JR made such a ruckus makes that call seem worse but in the end a foul is a foul and I can gaurantee you that AI and Melo get more questionable calls than any player on the Hawks.

I still see why you'd be mad: end of the game, finally playing hard in it. On the other hand there is no conspiracy to keep Denver down, the refs didn't have anything to do with the 65 points the Hawks put up in the first half.

Anyway, not trying to start anything here. Just pointing something out that happens in every game.

[el loco]

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Not sure where your getting the score of 102-97 but it would have been 102-96 if AI went to the line on that no call and hit 2 FT's. So were still up 6 with the ball and under 1 min. to go. Which means Denver will be fouling the Hawks putting us at the line. Actually were the Hawks even over the limit for AI to even go to the line if the ref called it? I'm not even sure at this point.

If I was the ref I would have called the foul either way i'm just pointing out that whining about it over and over when Denver had no business winning that game is moot. Now if it was a close hard fought game throughout and that happened with you guys down 3pts lets say, then yes you have a legitimate argument to keep harping on the call. But then again horrible calls happen EVERY game and honestly this game was over before any of that went down.

There was like 1:38 seconds when that push happened, so where are you getting just a minute? After the ball was handed to the hawks, we got it back and there was under a minute during that time the score never changed. Seems like controversial games follow the hawks this year.

[blue steel]

Why are you guys even talking to these hawks fans? They've had to deal with years and years of less than mediocrity and now they are doing ok so of course they are going to act like the nuggets had no chance and that the no call on iverson was legitimate "because there was only a minute left."

They are just going to repeat over and over again that they played better in the first half, which they did. But last I checked games are 48 minutes long and a 6 point deficit with 1:38 left is still a game. Unfortunately that game was taken away from us, and its not like it was a call that could go either way. The ref had a perfect view. He blew it.

[pickaxe]

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I'm not whining about anything. Just responding to your griping. Since when do the Nuggets play ANY defense? They have one hell of an offense but are by no means known for having any defense. Give me a break. So your assuming the Nuggets are going to score there on 2 straight possessions to get to 97 before any of the no-call fouls occurred? And that the Hawks would not get any FT attempts? Shut down defense? Please!

I know. They're not known for their defense. They keep switching it on and switching it off. For one, the San Antonio game. Shorthanded Spurs, yes, but more shorthanded teams have scored more on the Nuggets. That was well played defensively.

There is one other game where the Nugz came back from about 20 down and won in the final moments. There have been a few of those over the last 3 years.

There are also examples of quarters and games where the Nuggets completely shut down the opponent. An 11 point quarter.

The problem with the Nuggets defense is it isn't 48 minutes. And that's why they lost this game.

And yes, the Nuggets believe they can shut down a team and come back. The problem is they can't do it every game. They will win maybe 1 out of 10 games where they only clamp down in the 4th quarter.

Ultimately though, my griping is about the call at the end, so we don't need to go back and forth about whether the Nuggets would have won it. They' didn't.

[conleyorbust]

Why are you guys even talking to these hawks fans? They've had to deal with years and years of less than mediocrity and now they are doing ok so of course they are going to act like the nuggets had no chance and that the no call on iverson was legitimate "because there was only a minute left."

They are just going to repeat over and over again that they played better in the first half, which they did. But last I checked games are 48 minutes long and a 6 point deficit with 1:38 left is still a game. Unfortunately that game was taken away from us, and its not like it was a call that could go either way. The ref had a perfect view. He blew it.

That wasn't my point and I certainly didn't say that it was a legitimate call. I said that there are bad calls made throughout a game and cited one where Melo got a star call. I said that it sucks to end a game like that but the refs didn't take this game away from you.

[pickaxe]

To put it in perspective though, bad calls happen all through the game. Melo got a BS foul called on Josh Smith with about 6 minutes in the first quarter on a little spin move where it was pretty obvious he wasn't fouled. No one is gonna complain about that but it helped put our best defender in foul trouble which could have changed the complexion of the game. The fact that AI and JR made such a ruckus makes that call seem worse but in the end a foul is a foul and I can gaurantee you that AI and Melo get more questionable calls than any player on the Hawks.

I still see why you'd be mad: end of the game, finally playing hard in it. On the other hand there is no conspiracy to keep Denver down, the refs didn't have anything to do with the 65 points the Hawks put up in the first half.

Anyway, not trying to start anything here. Just pointing something out that happens in every game.

Amazing how those can just slip by.

[pickaxe]

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That wasn't my point and I certainly didn't say that it was a legitimate call. I said that there are bad calls made throughout a game and cited one where Melo got a star call. I said that it sucks to end a game like that but the refs didn't take this game away from you.

Ok, maybe a little more perspective. There are at least 10 no calls every game on AI or Melo - literal hacks. Some games there are phantom calls on the other team. Most go by the wayside and nothing is said.

Yes the ref did take the game away. The whole game is about what you can do in 48 minutes, not 46-47.

[conleyorbust]

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Ok, maybe a little more perspective. There are at least 10 no calls every game on AI or Melo - literal hacks. Some games there are phantom calls on the other team. Most go by the wayside and nothing is said.

Yes the ref did take the game away. The whole game is about what you can do in 48 minutes, not 46-47.

48 minutes, exactly, my point. NBA refs are bad at getting the right call in general. They aren't gonna be any better at it at the end of the game, I'll admit that it sucks extra to get hit with some BS at the end of the game but the fact is that it wasn't the only bad call the whole game, Melo and AI (whether you like to admit it) are given the benefit of the doubt more than most players because they are more skilled, more athletic, and have bigger names.

It sucks, you lost, you have a good team, get over it.

By the way, I love the Nuggets... I've been an AI guy since Gtown.

EDIT: and don't let Gutz piss you off.

[blue steel]

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That wasn't my point and I certainly didn't say that it was a legitimate call. I said that there are bad calls made throughout a game and cited one where Melo got a star call. I said that it sucks to end a game like that but the refs didn't take this game away from you.

Yea, there are bad calls throughout a game. They are just more noticeable when less than 2 minutes remain. I'm gonna have to disagree with you tho, the refs took away the opportunity to win the game. It's completely possible for this team to steal wins when we have played poorly. We've already come back from larger deficits this season to win in the final seconds.

But the main thing is that the foul was obvious and should have been called. It was one of the most obvious fouls I've ever seen not called considering the position and view the ref had.

[conleyorbust]

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Yea, there are bad calls throughout a game. They are just more noticeable when less than 2 minutes remain. I'm gonna have to disagree with you tho, the refs took away the opportunity to win the game. It's completely possible for this team to steal wins when we have played poorly. We've already come back from larger deficits this season to win in the final seconds.

But the main thing is that the foul was obvious and should have been called. It was one of the most obvious fouls I've ever seen not called considering the position and view the ref had.

I agree, its more noticable but certainly doesn't make it any less likely. NBA refs are terrible from start to finish. I have no doubt that the Nugs are capable of stealing a game and it sucks that you didn't get a fair chance to steal the game but couldn't you make an argument that if Smith hadn't been pulled for foul trouble (sorry to keep rehashing this one, I just remember it pretty vividly as a really bad call) we would have done an even better job at shutting the Nugs down in the first? Anyway, you don't have to agree with me, the refs blew a call but not the game, as **** of a call as it was to blow.

Good luck in Utah, I'm back to my board where I belong.

[pickaxe]

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48 minutes, exactly, my point. NBA refs are bad at getting the right call in general. They aren't gonna be any better at it at the end of the game, I'll admit that it sucks extra to get hit with some BS at the end of the game but the fact is that it wasn't the only bad call the whole game, Melo and AI (whether you like to admit it) are given the benefit of the doubt more than most players because they are more skilled, more athletic, and have bigger names.

It sucks, you lost, you have a good team, get over it.

By the way, I love the Nuggets... I've been an AI guy since Gtown.

EDIT: and don't let Gutz piss you off.

I'm over the loss. I accept the loss because the Nuggets played porous defense long enough to lose. The Hawks took advantage of it. That's how it's suppose to go.

I'm not over the bad call. I know it happens all the time. Somebody fix it.

I like the idea in the NFL of being able to challenge a call or lose a down.

I'd be in favor of an NBA coach being able to challenge, and if he loses then team loses possession or opposing team shoots a free throw.

Melo and AI get a few calls because of status I'm sure, but just the same if the ref doesn't like the way they look at him they've been known to ignore fouls too. Just call it like it is.

And that's right, this ref was right in front of the play this time. No "out of position" excuses or "we're only human" excuses - AI's human too and gets pushed around a lot. Yes he draws contact - but how else do you get past guys that are twice your size? Think about it for a second.

[Nuggetsfanduh98]

Ya I was just trying to get a laugh...I was trying to calm myself down. BTW ballings why did you mozy over here anyways it seems like every post you make about the nuggets is a negative toward them. Like In every game thread you pick against the nuggets and in the all-star picks you said I picked howard over melo I know he won't start but he is a better overall player as well as win they win in the thread you put wow the nuggets really surprised me tonight...I mean have your opinion but if your gonna post here atleast show a little bit and respect to the nugget players/team plz.