Does George Karl hate JR Smith?

Post #21 » by **corona** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 3:59 am

almost famous wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
No I can assure you that JR would go nuts with Garcia's minutes on an injured Sac team.

yep. on a team that's missed kmart/bibby for most of the year, and for the most part has lacked scoring....jr wouldn't have a problem putting up 18-20 points a game on 44%/40% shooting in 30 minutes a game.
no question it'd involve some questionable shots and crazy turnovers...but he'd do it.

sackings916 · Post #22 » by **sackings916** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 4:15 am

Dont wanna turn this into JR vs Garcia but IMO Garcia is the better overall player. JR could probably put up the same amount of pts and 3s as Garcia has but not play D like him and JR also doesn't have the best decision making.

RRFB · Post #23 » by **RRFB** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 4:26 am

The worst part is the double standard he holds JR to.

I could not stand watching Atkins play like ****, making bad decisions on offense and playing terrible defense while JR was on the bench racking up DNPs.

Post #24 » by **corona** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 4:30 am

Dont wanna turn this into JR vs Garcia but IMO Garcia is the better overall player. JR could probably put up the same amount of pts and 3s as Garcia has but not play D like him and JR also doesn't have the best decision making.

i won't argue defense, since its so subjective and being that jr's minutes have been so spotty....its difficult for either side to prove anything statistically.

as for decision making....at least jr smith has an a/to ratio over 1.0. not really his fault his coach doesn't tolerate mistakes.

jahshawn · Post #25 » by **jahshawn** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 4:36 am

corona wrote:
Dont wanna turn this into JR vs Garcia but IMO Garcia is the better overall player. JR could probably put up the same amount of pts and 3s as Garcia has but not play D like him and JR also doesn't have the best decision making.

i won't argue defense, since its so subjective and being that jr's minutes have been so spotty....its difficult for either side to prove anything statistically.

as for decision making....at least jr smith has an a/to ratio over 1.0. not really his fault his coach doesn't tolerate mistakes.

gk tolerate mistakes he just doesn't tolerate mistakes made by jr

Post #26 » by **corona** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 4:37 am

my mistake, you're correct

jahshawn · Post #27 » by **jahshawn** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 4:49 am

I never liked G.Karl and i never wanted him to be the coach of the Nuggets.He holds JR to double standards and he plays favorites with his players.He said he benched JR last month because he doesn't play defense yet he turns around and plays Atkins 20 minutes a game and he doesn't even he know the meaning of defense.

sackings916 · Post #28 » by **sackings916** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 5:29 am

corona wrote:
Dont wanna turn this into JR vs Garcia but IMO Garcia is the better overall player. JR could probably put up the same amount of pts and 3s as Garcia has but not play D like him and JR also doesn't have the best decision making.

i won't argue defense, since its so subjective and being that jr's minutes have been so spotty....its difficult for either side to prove anything statistically.

as for decision making....at least jr smith has an a/to ratio over 1.0. not really his fault his coach doesn't tolerate mistakes.

I agree but Cisco has shown more at this point, especially this season. Cisco is the more complete player and can do more things on the court on both ends. Then you factor in JR's attitude I think most teams would take Cisco over JR.

almost famous · Post #29 » by **almost famous** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 6:29 am

Well I don't know how much of a case you can make to back that up. JR has a lot of talents on offense. He scores more per minute than Garcia, on a team full of offensive weapons. When he was given decent minutes, him and Melo were leading the league in scoring duos. He can put the ball on the floor and everyone around the league knows he can attack the basket. His shot is deadly. When he's on there's nobody who can stop him from getting it off.

I like Garcia and know how good he is. I respect you're loyalty to your players, but I don't think you've seen enough of JR to know what he's capable of.

Post #30 » by **el loco** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 9:34 am

I know I wanted us to draft Garcia instead of Hodge. I watched Garcia during his college days and new he would develop into a decent pro. But, I think JR has some abilities that Garcia doesn't. Jr can handle the ball better, and he is a better passer. The defense thing I will give to Garcia because of the minutes he gets, but JR has shown some signs this year of being able to play some decent defense. In last nights game, he sent Horfords shot back at him and it shocked everyone in the arena.

almost famous · Post #31 » by **almost famous** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 10:56 am

Yeah if JR can even develop timing, he can get a lot more of those blocks. Kinda like a Josh Smith.

djtruebeliever · Post #32 » by **djtruebeliever** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 5:59 am

I also wanted garcia over hodge. garcia is a very good competitor and his best positive attributes are his hustle and toughness imo. that said, JR's offensive game is much better and garcia's defense is much more consistent and overall is a good deal better. however, JR's upside and athletic ability completely dwarfs that of garcia's and I believe if he received anything remotely representing consistent playing time his defense would be comparable.

noone · Post #33 » by **noone** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 7:33 am

JR has far more potential than Garcia does, but at this point Garcia is the better player. JR has shown flashes of doing everything on the court, passing, shooting, defending, etc but until it comes on a consistent basis, you can't give him credit for it.

yunggunz · Post #34 » by **yunggunz** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 9:33 am

sackings916 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

I agree but Cisco has shown more at this point, especially this season. Cisco is the more complete player and can do more things on the court on both ends. Then you factor in JR's attitude I think most teams would take Cisco over JR.

Garcia was also like 24 when he came in this league. JR is much younger with much more potential.

If you put JR on the Kings when Kevin Martin was out, I am pretty sure he would be averaging 15+ pts per game.

At this point JR is the better shooter, slasher, passer, playmaker and ball handler, while Garcia is a better rebounder, defender and decision maker.

sackings916 · Post #35 » by **sackings916** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:55 pm

yunggunz wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Garcia was also like 24 when he came in this league. JR is much younger with much more potential.

If you put JR on the Kings when Kevin Martin was out, I am pretty sure he would be averaging 15+ pts per game.

At this point JR is the better shooter, slasher, passer, playmaker and ball handler, while Garcia is a better rebounder, defender and decision maker.

How exactly is JR a better passer,playmaker and ballhandler when Garcia has been playing point forward for the Kings since last season and Karl's response to JR playing PG was something like why put the highest TO per min player on the team at PG? And as far as shooting I really cant see how JR is a better shooter than Garcia.

Post #36 » by **The Rebel** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 2:40 pm

sackings916 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

How exactly is JR a better passer,playmaker and ballhandler when Garcia has been playing point forward for the Kings since last season and Karl's response to JR playing PG was something like why put the highest TO per min player on the team at PG? And as far as shooting I really cant see how JR is a better shooter than Garcia.

Jr is not the worst to guy on the team, and it is not close, he also played PG for the 1st few weeks of the season. As for Garcia you can call him a point forward but he has a .75 to 1 turnover ratio, JR has a 1 to 1, which shows JR is better then Garcia in passing and playmaking.

AS for shooting JR shoots a higher percentage behind the arc, while Garcia is slightly higher in 2 point land so I would call that a wash at best for Garcia.

Defensively the stats stay the same for the Nuggets with JR on the court, which is impressive considering he is on a team that ranks in the top 3, but Garcia the EFG and Points per hundred all are higher once Garcia steps on the court. I would say that he must not be that great on defense.

yunggunz · Post #37 » by **yunggunz** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 6:26 pm

sackings916 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Garcia has been playing point forward for the Kings since .

If thats true, then Garcia is a worse passer and playmaker than I thought. For a guy playing point forward, he has a horrible assist rate, and an even worse a/to rate. Over half his games this year he has had 1 assist or less.....thats god awful for a point forward.

noone · Post #38 » by **noone** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 8:09 pm

As for Garcia you can call him a point forward but he has a .75 to 1 turnover ratio, JR has a 1 to 1, which shows JR is better then Garcia in passing and playmaking.

Not necessarily. Denver gets out on the fast break far more than the Kings do and just run more overall which is more conducive to racking up assists. I haven't seen too much of Garcia, but from what I've seen he is a very smart player which probably makes him a much better decision maker than JR (which in fact he is terrible) which is being very underrated.

On a young team that's looking to improve their players with potential, you want the ball in JR's hands where he can do what he wants. But on a playoff team looking to compete you'd rather have Garcia out there where making the right decisions and being consistent is more crucial. This is nothing to do with who the better passer/playmaker is but who you'd rather put out there on the basis of passing/playmaking.

Just looking at their numbers, rebounding they could both improve immensely. JR being as athletic as he is, he could easily be pulling down 5-6 rebounds a game (obviously given more minutes). However, Garcia is underperforming far more than JR in that category. Because he plays SF and plays closer to the basket, he should be grabbing well over 3.9 boards in 30 minutes.

Shooting wise (3 pt) they're different players with similar stats. JR is the type of guy that could hit 10 straight shots and then miss 10 straights. Much more streaky. Garcia from what I've seen is more consistent make or miss. I'd call it a wash, but given more consistency, JR would be much better.

JRmakes_it_rain · Post #39 » by **JRmakes_it_rain** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 6:26 pm

here's the latest one.......

Forty-eight hours after J.R. Smith came to his defense in a dispute with a referee, Iverson returned the favor.

Iverson, ejected along with Smith in the final minutes of a loss to Atlanta on Tuesday night, said Thursday night it is "imperative" Smith get more playing time, because he "can't help us sitting on the bench."

Karl, often bewildered by Smith's inconsistent defense and poor decision-making, couldn't help but smile when told about Iverson's comment.

"I'm glad A.I. feels that way," Karl said. "Way to protect your teammate. I'll be making that decision on a game-by-game basis."

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2 ... anuary-19/

Glad to see AI saying what everyone who's watched a game this year has been thinking.

MKWB · Post #40 » by **MKWB** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 11:26 pm

I think there's a lot more to the coach-player relationship behind the scenes (practices, meetings). It was the same story in New Orleans: the coach obviously saw his poor attitude/ basketball IQ and benched him and spoke poorly of him. It's been seen over and over again in the league- talent alone does not make a good player.