melo

[eathy]

Backpedaling? I'm right here.
The bronze medal was monumental, it shocked alot of people. He was somewhat of the leader of that team. That's why I bring it up. He's not entirely responsible for that, I wouldn't even say he had a key role, but he had a role none the less.

the same thing could be said about the NCAA tournament and vice-versa.

Winning the NCAA tournament doesn't mean much to the pros. There is a lot of guys that have done that. It's almost like saying he won the Gus Macker Tournament or something. Every year there is at least one player in the lottery that can say that, and usually it's 2 and sometimes even 4 or so.

the same thing could be said about the Bronze medal and vice-versa.

Yeah it is. It's not even close to half his career. You can't look at that trade talking about how they aren't even trying to build around him when they traded away some defense for another scoring option that can shoot better. They let Miller run his course and the course led nowhere. Now they try something in another route and you wanna complain because you actually had to give something up.

Actually the course was getting somewhere. That team before the AI trade was probably the closest assembled to the perfect team built around Melo. We were also in a rebuilding phase, and Karl was giving the rookies and younger players decent minutes.

The trade for AI would have had never happened had the suspensions come (and yes it was very poor by Melo and the blame is on him), which then forced us to go into "win-now" mode. The main reason why the Nuggets FO was because they had to, to stay in touch in the playoffs.

Every Nugget fans (AI homers don't count) know it... getting AI here is a huge step backwards.

Possibly, they don't take enough shots to get in rhythm, no pass outs from the post for open J's, ETC. Looking at the numbers it looks like they get alot more open looks in other places.

i'd love to see those numbers. feel free to post it and a source.

correct me if i'm wrong, but guys like Anthony Carter, Steve Blake, JR Smith, Marcus Camby, Eduardo Najera and even Allen Iverson are putting greater and more efficient numbers playing WITH melo.

Shouldn't that help Melo out even more?

not really. Camby leaves his man A LOT just to go for a block, many times when he doesn't need to. This then allows whoever Camby is coming towards to just kick it to his open man.

but yeah, i'm guessing that's Melo's fault for not rotating and picking up Camby's slack.

[SunTzuMachiavelli]

the same thing could be said about the NCAA tournament and vice-versa.

it's a much more limited number. it's every four years and it's basically all superstars with established games.

Actually the course was getting somewhere. That team before the AI trade was probably the closest assembled to the perfect team built around Melo. We were also in a rebuilding phase, and Karl was giving the rookies and younger players decent minutes.

The trade for AI would have had never happened had the suspensions come (and yes it was very poor by Melo and the blame is on him), which then forced us to go into "win-now" mode. The main reason why the Nuggets FO was because they had to, to stay in touch in the playoffs.

Every Nugget fans (AI homers don't count) know it... getting AI here is a huge step backwards.

the Melo fans just want to complain. I remember back then when he was under criticism for being all offense. you guys would say he has no choice because he was the only one who could score and he needed a second option. Even right now you say that Melo needs shooters. This trade did address two things.

Possibly, they don't take enough shots to get in rhythm, no pass outs from the post for open J's, ETC. Looking at the numbers it looks like they get alot more open looks in other places.

i'd love to see those numbers. feel free to post it and a source.

I'm too lazy to pull them up again, i'm sure you will say i'm full of it for it but truthfully I don't care anymore. I'm tired. Earl Boykins was one though.

not really. Camby leaves his man A LOT just to go for a block, many times when he doesn't need to. This then allows whoever Camby is coming towards to just kick it to his open man.

but yeah, i'm guessing that's Melo's fault for not rotating and picking up Camby's slack.

Camby leaves his man to block Melo's man, and this doesn't help Melo? I'm not talking about the team here, I'm talking specifically about Melo's performance. Melo should rotate occasionally too, you're damn right. The team isn't supposed to revolve entirely around his needs. If you want an offense build around his ability to possibly find open shooters and cover his non existant defense then he should easily be expected to rotate on d like most players would.

[denvers_finest]

Backpedaling? I'm right here.
The bronze medal was monumental, it shocked alot of people. He was somewhat of the leader of that team. That's why I bring it up. He's not entirely responsible for that, I wouldn't even say he had a key role, but he had a role none the less.
Winning the NCAA tournament doesn't mean much to the pros. There is a lot of guys that have done that. It's almost like saying he won the Gus Macker Tournament or something. Every year there is at least one player in the lottery that can say that, and usually it's 2 and sometimes even 4 or so.

Melo was a leader on that team? Are you joking? He just finished his rookie year, he barely made the team, and he barely played. LB benched him very early on, and I don't think he saw very many meaningful minutes.

If were tossing stones about who's to blame from that team, how about guys that actually played AI, Duncan, Marbury, RJ, Marion, etc. Hell even Bron and Wade saw more PT and were more of a leader on that team than Melo.

Or, we could talk about the teams that Melo actually WAS a leader on. Like the Syracuse team or the national team that played in the FIBA tournament last year (where they were undefeated). That probably wouldn't go to well with your arguement though. Sorry, your not right.

Yeah it is. It's not even close to half his career. You can't look at that trade talking about how they aren't even trying to build around him when they traded away some defense for another scoring option that can shoot better. They let Miller run his course and the course led nowhere. Now they try something in another route and you wanna complain because you actually had to give something up.

Then why is it ok for you to bring up guys like Person (played half a season with Melo), Barry (played one season with Melo), Vo (played a season and a half with Melo), White, (played a season and a half with Melo), Watson (played a half season with Melo) etc..? You use these as examples of how the FO has tried to build around Melo with "shooters" yet none of them have played together with Melo as much as AI has. Your backpedaling and contradictions are getting old. Find a point and stick to it.

Possibly, they don't take enough shots to get in rhythm, no pass outs from the post for open J's, ETC. Looking at the numbers it looks like they get alot more open looks in other places.

What numbers? Do you have any actual facts, or are you just gonna keep posting your opinion on these players.

DJ was out of the league before he played with the Nuggets, and is out of the league now. Same with Person. BRuss was traded from the Nuggets and never played another game. Boykins was out of the league most of last year. Rodney White, is he even in the NBA? C'mon these guys weren't that good, or were way past their prime. Its a fact.

right, they used to have a little more defensive mindset which was sacrificed for more offense. Now you want both with even more shooting. Problem is that a team full of tough defensive scrappy players who can shoot don't even need Melo, that team is already very good on their own. Oddly enough the only team I can think of like that is Detroit.

When? Seriously when have the Nuggets (as a team, not just one player) ever had a defensive mindset? They play up tempo and try to outscore teams. Thats why they lead the league in fast break points (or were in the top 5) for Melo's whole career, and thats why they have been near the bottom in points allowed. Its not all Melo's fault, thats the philosiphy of the team, and until they get someone here who preaches D over O, they are going to continue to be a middle of the pack or worse defensive team.

Look at how much I've had to type (and I doubt I'm done yet). Look how many of you are nitpicking over my words trying to discredit me. How could you possibly say this is easier?

Touche

True. Everyone has role in it. Ultimately Melo is still the backbone of this team though, and he's been the one constant defensive weakness his whole career. I personally wouldn't call it ignorant to say that a SF playing no defense could be largely responsible for a team's lack of d. I'd gladly welcome you to try it out in a pick up game and see what happens. Your teammate could end up bailing you out (like Camby does Melo sometimes), but even that is only going to do so much.

It's not ignorant in and of itself. What makes it ignorant is your inability to look past one player. You don't think a 6'0 SG cause problems on defense? Or how about a 5'5 SG? You don't think Camby, Nene, and K-Mart missing a decades worth of games in the past 5 years causes issues with team defense and rotations?

I'm not excussing Melo for his role, I said he deserves SOME of the blame, I just don't think that MOST of the blame should fall on him. He's awful at rotating. Always has been. He's lazy when he goes to close out on shooters, sometimes doesn't even put his hands up. He's not perfect, and if you brought up valid points, I'd agree with you. But all your doing is saying the Nuggets have a bad defense, must be Melo's fault. The Nuggets can't get out of the first round, must be Melo's fault. And that my friend, is ignorant.

And for the record, I play D, but I'm not a great scorer. So I need my teamates help to put the ball in the hole, and they need my help to pick up the slack on the other end of the court. Thats kind of how a team works.

[SunTzuMachiavelli]

Then why is it ok for you to bring up guys like Person (played half a season with Melo), Barry (played one season with Melo), Vo (played a season and a half with Melo), White, (played a season and a half with Melo), Watson (played a half season with Melo) etc..? You use these as examples of how the FO has tried to build around Melo with "shooters" yet none of them have played together with Melo as much as AI has. Your backpedaling and contradictions are getting old. Find a point and stick to it.

first of all, I say something, you question it and I explain it to the best of my ability and this is BACKPEDALING? If that's the case then whatever, I obviously don't know what that word means in your heads.

Secondly, when I list off like eight players and you list one it shows what i'm saying pretty well. 3-point specialists have roles on almost every successful team, on the nuggets they have no role because no one will give them the ball.

right, they used to have a little more defensive mindset

When? Seriously when have the Nuggets (as a team, not just one player) ever had a defensive mindset?

how did i know that would be taken entirely out of context as soon as I typed it? I didn't say anything like what you got out of that, read it right and it makes sense. When they traded MIller they did lose some defense, I don't see how any sane person could argue with that.

You don't think a 6'0 SG cause problems on defense?

It's worked very well for Iverson before.

Or how about a 5'5 SG?

Yeah i'm sure that made Miller's job very difficult

You don't think Camby, Nene, and K-Mart missing a decades worth of games in the past 5 years causes issues with team defense and rotations?

Not as much as someone not trying to rotate anyways.

I'm not excussing Melo for his role, I said he deserves SOME of the blame, I just don't think that MOST of the blame should fall on him. He's awful at rotating. Always has been. He's lazy when he goes to close out on shooters, sometimes doesn't even put his hands up. He's not perfect, and if you brought up valid points, I'd agree with you. But all your doing is saying the Nuggets have a bad defense, must be Melo's fault. The Nuggets can't get out of the first round, must be Melo's fault. And that my friend, is ignorant.

I didn't say that Melo is solely responsible. I said he's mostly responsible. I don't see how a team with a guy who doesn't even try on defense could be a good defensive team either. Iverson for example, he sucks at guarding people but he'll hustle and try to pick off passes because he can do that at least and if he gets a big to cover for his gambles at the basket then it's not that bad. NAsh will try to flop, but he still sucks.

And for the record, I play D, but I'm not a great scorer. So I need my teamates help to put the ball in the hole, and they need my help to pick up the slack on the other end of the court. Thats kind of how a team works.

congrats on playing d. do you run on offense? set picks? cut to the basket just in case? or do you truly do nothing and demand your teammates do it for you. if you do that I bet your team isn't very good.