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Let Nene Walk?

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The Rebel
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Re: Let Nene Walk? 

Post#21 » by The Rebel » Sun Dec 4, 2011 11:00 pm

Mac1958 wrote:Mozgov might end up being the guy. Perfect. Otherwise I'd like to see Jordan (1.76 blocks per 36) or maybe Dalmebert, unless someone else is available that we don't know about. If you guys think that it's worth it to pay whatever it takes to have a dominant center, we'll just have to disagree. Didn't realize I was going to ruffle feathers like that.

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Name the last time any team won without at least 1 elite big, then come back and explain to me how they make no difference, and are not worth the money.
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Re: Let Nene Walk? 

Post#22 » by Nuggninja » Mon Dec 5, 2011 12:06 am

The Rebel wrote:
Mac1958 wrote:Mozgov might end up being the guy. Perfect. Otherwise I'd like to see Jordan (1.76 blocks per 36) or maybe Dalmebert, unless someone else is available that we don't know about. If you guys think that it's worth it to pay whatever it takes to have a dominant center, we'll just have to disagree. Didn't realize I was going to ruffle feathers like that.

.


Name the last time any team won without at least 1 elite big, then come back and explain to me how they make no difference, and are not worth the money.


Jordan's Bulls teams.
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Re: Let Nene Walk? 

Post#23 » by Nuggninja » Mon Dec 5, 2011 12:07 am

The Rebel wrote:
Mac1958 wrote:Mozgov might end up being the guy. Perfect. Otherwise I'd like to see Jordan (1.76 blocks per 36) or maybe Dalmebert, unless someone else is available that we don't know about. If you guys think that it's worth it to pay whatever it takes to have a dominant center, we'll just have to disagree. Didn't realize I was going to ruffle feathers like that.

.


Name the last time any team won without at least 1 elite big, then come back and explain to me how they make no difference, and are not worth the money.


Jordan's Bulls teams.
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Re: Let Nene Walk? 

Post#24 » by The Rebel » Mon Dec 5, 2011 12:13 am

Nuggninja wrote:
The Rebel wrote:
Mac1958 wrote:Mozgov might end up being the guy. Perfect. Otherwise I'd like to see Jordan (1.76 blocks per 36) or maybe Dalmebert, unless someone else is available that we don't know about. If you guys think that it's worth it to pay whatever it takes to have a dominant center, we'll just have to disagree. Didn't realize I was going to ruffle feathers like that.

.


Name the last time any team won without at least 1 elite big, then come back and explain to me how they make no difference, and are not worth the money.


Jordan's Bulls teams.


On team in the last 30+ years? that is your example? do we have a greatest of all time candidate, with a top 5 current NBA players as the 2nd best player? Unless you have Jordan, you have to have at least 1 elite big. those bigs cost money, and the right big makes the difference between titles, and 1st round fodder.

Besides that even with all the talent on the wings, Grant was not that far off from being elite when they won the 1st 3 peat, and rodman may have been the most dominant defensive bigman in the history of the game.
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Re: Let Nene Walk? 

Post#25 » by Mac1958 » Mon Dec 5, 2011 12:13 am

The Rebel wrote:Name the last time any team won without at least 1 elite big, then come back and explain to me how they make no difference, and are not worth the money.


OK, fair question, let's see. Here's the champion and runner-up for a few years:

2010/2011 Mavericks
Tyson Chandler
10.1/9.4/1.1

2010/2011 Heat
Joel Anthony
4.0/7.4/2.4 (per 40 minutes)

2009/2010 Lakers
Andrew Bynum
15.0/8.3/1.4

2009/2010 Celtics
Kendrick Perkins
10.1/7.6/1.7

2008/2009 Lakers
Andrew Bynum
14.3/8.0/1.8

2008/2009 Magic
Dwight Howard
20.6/13.8/2.9

2007/2008 Celtics
Kendrick Perkins
6.9/6.1/1.5

2006/2007 Spurs
Cast of characters from Tim Duncan to Melvin Ely, no regular center

2006/2007 Cavs
Z Ilgausksas
11.9/7.7/1.3

2005/2006 Miami Heat
Shaquille O'Neal
20.0/9.2/1.8

2005/2006 Dallas Mavericks
Boris Diaw? (Amare only played 3 games)
13.3/6.9/1.0

Looks to me like the quality of the starting centers on these winners is all over the map, from elite to mediocre and everything in between. Some very dynamic teammates though, as I mentioned in my original post.

Is it nice to have an elite center? Of course. My point is that there are so few excellent centers in the league that they can command salaries that are above their real value. Supply and demand. In a league with a salary cap, that can be problematic.

So, given the economics of the salary cap, if we choose not to over-pay for a center, my preference would be for a solid defensive presence for whom we're not paying a bundle. That's all. That's it.

And by the way, I did not say, as you claim, that elite bigs "make no difference." Ugh. Straw man arguments give me gas.

.
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Re: Let Nene Walk? 

Post#26 » by corona » Mon Dec 5, 2011 2:20 am

i believe you meant to say:

Mavericks - Dirk Nowitzki
Lakers - Pau Gasol
Lakers - Pau Gasol
Celtics - Kevin Garnett
Spurs - Tim Duncan
Heat - Shaq
Spurs - Tim Duncan
Pistons - Sheed & Wallace
Spurs - Tim Duncan
Lakers - Shaq
Lakers - Shaq
Lakers - Shaq
Spurs - Duncan & Robinson
Bulls* - GOAT x 6

big != center, necessarily
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Re: Let Nene Walk? 

Post#27 » by clockwork » Mon Dec 5, 2011 8:07 am

Mac1958 wrote:Mozgov might end up being the guy. Perfect. Otherwise I'd like to see Jordan (1.76 blocks per 36) or maybe Dalmebert, unless someone else is available that we don't know about. If you guys think that it's worth it to pay whatever it takes to have a dominant center, we'll just have to disagree. Didn't realize I was going to ruffle feathers like that.

.

dalembert's work ethic is questionable, why do you think sixers dumped him. also he's 30. also he's in slow decline in rebounding, fg %, bpg, mpg. also he sucks.

why bring in that bozo or anybody else for a higher salary for that matter when mozgoz could probably reproduce a guy like dalembert's stats given the minutes.
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Re: Let Nene Walk? 

Post#28 » by Mac1958 » Mon Dec 5, 2011 11:33 am

corona wrote:i believe you meant to say...

...big != center, necessarily



No, I said precisely what I meant to say. I said "center", you changed it to "big" to enhance your point.

And yes, I would definitely agree that top "bigs" are pretty much a requirement. At least one. You can be successful if the other is good at, at least one thing. Such as defense.

But that wasn't my point.

There are far more good/excellent power forwards than there are good/excellent centers, which is why you see so many 4's having to play the 5. Supply/Demand. That was my point, again.

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Re: Let Nene Walk? 

Post#29 » by Mac1958 » Mon Dec 5, 2011 11:38 am

clockwork wrote:why bring in that bozo or anybody else for a higher salary for that matter when mozgoz could probably reproduce a guy like dalembert's stats given the minutes.



Yeah, I'd much rather Mosgov developed and ending up being the guy. I wonder what he's been doing in the off season.

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Re: Let Nene Walk? 

Post#30 » by eathb_au » Mon Dec 5, 2011 5:20 pm

After some thought, I'd much rather have Gasol over Nene due to two reasons: 1. He's younger, 2. He's 7"1.
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Re: Let Nene Walk? 

Post#31 » by KAVK » Tue Dec 6, 2011 3:02 am

eathb_au wrote:After some thought, I'd much rather have Gasol over Nene due to two reasons: 1. He's younger, 2. He's 7"1.


I am on that wagon :) .
George Karl !

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