KMart goes off on Karl, and the Melo situation

[The Rebel]

It's just not that cut and dry Rebel. I understand you are correct saying that Allen and Payton didn't mention coming here when there was interest. Let's be a little honest... 1. George can be a very inconsistent coach- yes, he loves the role players, the harder workers. 2. Part of the reason he got on Gary and Ray and Carmelo was to get better, that is suppose to be his job, right? Of course, there is suppose to be professionalism but it goes both ways. You can't just blame George for trying to get the best out of them... yes, George has an issue with superstars, but maybe they should go play defense (Ray and Melo). It took KG for Ray to play any defense... Melo??? everyone once in a great while you see his potential for playing d.

1 considering both Payton and Ray Allen have always had reputations as being among the hardest workers in the league I would guess it is not just about being a hard worker. Personally I think karl likes players like he himself was, scrappy hustle guys who are hanging on in the league by their fingernails. he has always been that way, and always will be.

2. Of course his job is to make every player on his roster better. So which of the top stars that he has coached ever reached their pinnacle under Karl? I"ll give you a hint, the only one that has had their career year under Karl was Melo, and his career is far from done. the sad part is that the one year Melo bought into playing defense, it was not Karl who got him to do it, it was coach K with the national team, and then Chauncey with the Nuggets. Reality is karl is one of the few supposed great coaches around the league that constantly has trouble getting his stars to buy into his system and playing on both ends. You don't hear that about other coaches around the league.l

Also now that Melo, Kmart, and JR are all gone the professional thing to do would to let bygones be bygones and keep your mouth closed as their former boss.

As far as the trade... You know Melo and Mrs. Melo were driving that train to NYC- it wouldn't matter who the coach was... (ok maybe if Phil Jackson was here). Does it suck not having a star...of course it does... it makes night losing a game when you had 4 chances to win and fumble it away very aggravating... but what is the alternative? getting a top 3 pick? Anthony Davis? there isn't a LeBron, D-Wade, Melo, DH12, CP3 in this draft. I thought you were more of the basketball purist and team? more of the Spurs model and yes, I know they have a star... but that star makes them accountable for everything... Melo never did... neither has LeBron- even Larry Bird was quoted that he's rather play with Kobe to win rings. If Gallo and Ty aren't any better than they are currently...don't worry, they will be blowing things up very soon and we will head back to the lottery.

of course Melo wanted NY, but he has confirmed twice since that trade that he thought the closest he could get was NJ. he has admitted that until the night before the deal he thought he was going to Jersey. the New Jersey offer was Cap Relief, Devin Harris (who was rumored to be spun to Portland for Batum), favors, and 3 draft picks (including the pick that was the 3rd overall pick just last year) for Melo and Billups. the Nuggets went with the package from New York because they did not want to fully rebuild

As for getting a top 3 picks, do you know an alternative? i am more of a basketball purist, but I am also a realist, the team has to be built perfect or it has to have a superstar. This team is far from perfect, infact it has as many holes in it as the 2003-2004 team, but the difference is that team was supposed to have holes, this team was supposed to be the deepest in the league.

As for leadership i will give you that a team needs leaders and Lebron and Melo both are not those type of guys, but let's be real the current rumored leader of the Nuggets is Al harrington. Al harrington went from being a chucker/ cancer to now leading a team full of young players, does that sound like a good plan to you?

Trading Gallo and lawson if they do not improve is not a good plan for the future, it is a stall where your pieces either gain or lose value based on future play, if they do not improve their value goes down. The problem is if they improve they still will not improve enough to make the team a great team at this point, they would have to become perennial all stars or every single player has to improve considerably before this team becomes a contender.

J.R?? --- no, not you? JR Smith was the most infuriating basketball player I have ever seen. One moment is is flat out amazing... penetrate and dish, under control, open from half court, and could play D at times as well....(all of that in a few minutes) then shooting unintelligent shots, not playing D, crying at the refs, getting tech's, and pouting... Yes, Karl didn't do JR many favors, but it is a 2 way street... he didn't play the game the right way 1/2 of the time and you more than anyone know this.

Like it or not the top talents in the league are prima-donnas, it is the coaches job to handle them and get the most out of them, not try to out prima-donna them. Jr was and still is inconsistent, but he is more talented than any player on this years Nuggets team. And whether anybody will ever admit it or not even when his shot was off he usually was still good for solid defense and creating for others, which is more then I can say for most guys with his talent.

his strengths also fill the biggest need on the team, he is one hell of a 2 guard that can shoot and create for himself and others. rudy Fernandez is just as infuriating, only when he is one he is still half the player that Jr was even on a bad day.

Do I like Melo anymore...no, he hated on the team and the city I love-- he wanted to be a world wide name, the move was not a basketball move- it was a money move, good for him if he can go get it- but I am a Nuggets fan, why should I be fond of someone that force his way out??? That's why I in pro sports I try not to get attached to a "favorite" cause they are here today and gone tomorrow.

this is not really about liking Melo, it is about letting go. Hell I was not really much of a Melo fan while he was here, and am fine with him being gone. but sooner or later the coach and team should actually move on. Enough of the stupid comments in the media, and trash talking about the former superstars. not only does it make the Karl look classless but it also reflects very badly on the Nuggets franchise, staffs, and fans as a whole. Melo decided to leave, for whatever reasons, but why is it that I am one of the few that realize he is nothing to me and should be the same for the team as well.

and finally K-mart and Karl haven't seen eye to eye in some time...they got over the whole playoff suspension thing back in the day and all, but both had their stance on that. Karl is far from perfect and can be totally aggravating, but this situation we fans are in now... it wouldn't any better if Melo were still here- probably be about the same place... and if Karl were gone... we'd be in pretty much the same boat- Karl can work with the right superstar... and Melo can win a championship in NYC... if he plays some D and plays a little faster and gives up the rock some. They both have issues.

Everybody knows I have always had a love hate relationship with Kmart, and I fully understand the problems that KMart and Karl have had, but this is not about that or Kmart. It is about what his statements were and whether or not they are true. It is funny as I have read through this thread most of the posts are almost personal attacks on Kmart and melo, with nobody really trying to defend the things Karl has said and done over the last few weeks.

I would like to point out that Karl has also made it pretty damn clear over the last year or so since the Melo deal that he does not want to work with a superstar.It is not an accident that he has clashed with every single superstar he has ever had play for him. You know if a guy has a problem coaching one top player then that player may be the problem, if he has problem coaching every single top talent, then the problem may just be him.

You also know from our long history posting on this board that I do not believe being a fan of a team means blindly following or agreeing with everything they say or do. there is no reason that criticism cannot occur, especially for a team struggling to stay in the playoff race.

As for where we would be with or without Karl or Melo, truth is nobody knows that, but as I put in my post we have a long history of teams that have allowed Karl to make personnel decisions, right now karl may be the best coach the Nuggets could get, but I still stand by my statement that Karl may be the worst front office voice we could have in Denver.

[The Rebel]

Your right Dallas won with the help of several role players, but the main piece was and still is a superstar in dirk, to ignore the fact that dirk is a superstar and then trying to use his team as an example is ludicrous.

Payton and Allen loved Karl so much they refused to even discuss coming to Denver when they were free agents and the Nuggets were rumored to want them. Karl traded a prime ray Allen while at the top of his game and that at least his last 2 coaches have called the consummate professional, even while at the top of his game. Karl is a role player coach and always has been, he usually feuds with his most talented players, and that has went on for decades.

I agree Karl is a diva and that drives players away.

And that's why there was no way JR Smith wanted to come back. And that was before Karl went on the radio and called him crazy.

karl drives certain players away. kmart, jr, and melo all share "that" personality that nobody necessarily would like to work with.

karl isn't a diva. melo, jr and kmart are divas.

What about Gary Payton, ray Allen, what about that Us National team in 2002 where players were openly disgusted and the team had the worst results in years? What about always blaming someone else when he fails? Maybe the fact that he now does TV commercials? If someone can look at Karl's history and not see he is a diva, or look at his recent actions and see he wants to be the biggest star of a team, then I have no idea what to tell you.

[Maf]

2 Rebel :

Hey, how about that Supersonics team who fought Bulls in 96? who was the coachu, huh?

Most talented players are prima-donnas? How about Rose, Duncan, Nash, Nowitzky, Bird, Magic, Hakeem, Robinson...? They're champs/MVP's. Second tiers "superstars" might be. But only real superstars as I see little cocky are MJ, Kobe and Shaq.

And yeah, I wouldn't mind trading Ty... I like him. I hate him when it's last five minutes of the game.

(migh write worse english than usually. Too much Scotch's )

[The Rebel]

2 Rebel :

Hey, how about that Supersonics team who fought Bulls in 96? who was the coachu, huh?

Most talented players are prima-donnas? How about Rose, Duncan, Nash, Nowitzky, Bird, Magic, Hakeem, Robinson...? They're champs/MVP's. Second tiers "superstars" might be. But only real superstars as I see little cocky are MJ, Kobe and Shaq.

And yeah, I wouldn't mind trading Ty... I like him. I hate him when it's last five minutes of the game.

(migh write worse english than usually. Too much Scotch's )

what does the supersonics team in 96 have to do with this conversation? I have said several times that I think Karl is a good coach, he is just a horrible GM, and not long after that run he was given more of a say in the Sonics front office which lead to the same disaster that the bucks went through a few years later.

Derick Rose is not a prima-donna? The same guy who refused to call the best player in the NBA because he did not feel it was important, not to mention the same guy who is now reportedly telling his team to trade their starting PF for someone else. Being shy in the media does not always mean they are not a prima donna.

As for duncan, my how fast people forget that he played the free agent game clear back in 1999-2000, almost joining hill and Tmac to form the 1st big 3, and openly flirting with the idea of walking away from the Spurs, despite the fact they were only one year removed from winning the championship.
'
Hakeem threatened management in houston to either get better pieces or he was leaving back in 1992.

bird and Magic were 2 of the biggest prima-donnas in league history, the fact they were on stacked teams that won prevented much of the crap from hitting the fan. but there have always been rumors that Bird was one of the leaders that helped push bill fitch out of the Celtics, and Magic has openly admitted that he go Paul Westhead fired less then a year and a half after winning a title.

I will give you Dirk, Nash, and David robinson but they are more of the exception as opposed to the rule.

there are some things that people seem to forget about players from the 80s-90s, many of the things they did were not pasted all over the internet 10 minutes later. For most of them there was no internet, and others it was not nearly as big as it is now.

Another thing people forget is that coaches can make a difference in keeping a star player in line, and getting them to buy into the system. Phil Jackson made one hell of a difference with Jordan, kobe, and then Shaq. Pat riley found a way to make magic happy, while pushing him to the top. KC Jones somehow kept the Celtics players in line and happy, while they enjoyed their great run. Greg Popovich has always been able to control tim duncan and his other stars. You rarely hear of these guys openly fueding with their players. The same cannot be said for George karl.

[pickaxe]

Yawn. Holy shnikies, batman.

This team situation just seems to come full circle. Now we have a team that is not playing well as a team and wish one player would just break out and be a superstar.

This city becomes tired with its players and coaches too quickly to win any sort of championship. There's no stick-to-it-tiveness. Everyone has flaws. It's just a question of who's flaws can you deal with long enough to Win.

[Maf]

2 rebel again

you wrote: 2. Of course his job is to make every player on his roster better. So which of the top stars that he has coached ever reached their pinnacle under Karl?
That's why I wrote Sonics. Kemp and Payton, I believe, played their best basketball under GK.
I agree he's not as good as Jackson and Popovich. They're TOP 10 coaches ever.

Bout those players... That's all you could dig in? I support Rose's choice to not lick Howard's ass to join him. I read he'd like to play with Pau, not to trade Boozer (who's terrible at Bulls uniform). He's always humble and supportive to his untalented players.

Duncan thinking about changing team, that is it? You really say Duncan belong to group prima-donnas?

Hakeem want from their office to do their job and bring him some talent? He always did his job and played great basketball.

You wrote one negative thing about these players and it's enough to call them prima-donnas? Sorry, I disagree. Might be that you understand term prima-donnas differently than we in Europe do. We use it to someone who is spoiled by his succes, thinks only about himself and his glory. I can't see players I choose this way...

[Nuggets_Talk]

"Man, listen, George needs to keep his mouth shut, first and foremost," Martin said. "Melo don't play there no more. So Karl shouldn't be commenting on Melo. If George was such a great coach, then Melo would want to stay. He wouldn't want to leave.

"If the organization was ran right, he wouldn't want to leave, so it ain't Melo. With Melo, not one time when he was there [in the Nuggets' locker room] did he bring that in the locker room when all that stuff was going on. Not one day. Everybody made it a bigger deal than it had to be. That's a good kid.

"They act like this kid was a cancer, like he came in there and destroyed the locker room and made everybody hate him. No, it wasn't nothing like that man. And it bothers me for people to be talking about how he's a selfish player and he has to defend himself."



"They've got the team they wanted now," Martin said. "They got all us out of there. They didn't offer me an extension, they traded [Anthony], J.R. [Smith] is gone [to New York]. They've got the team they want. So why doesn't [Karl] worry about coaching them and leaving Melo alone -- bottom line? It bothers me for them to keep harping at that."

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/w ... z1mrGcCcPI

uh, wtf kmart...

melo wanted out because of NY and fame. not because of denver or how we ran the organization - if he really cared about that, why would he have gone to one of the worst ran teams in recent history

comments like his makes me even more glad hes gone. holy **** what a headcase

[KAVK]

K Mart is someone will bring it out and i won't blame him for this comment but Melo can defend himself against Karl, just leave them two at it.