Where is all thje jj hickson hate stemming from?

StunnaStan · Post #1 » by **StunnaStan** » Tue Jun 24, 2014 3:30 pm

Personally, i think adding hickson was a great move but due to javale being hurt and shaw's early refusal of playing mozzy forced jj to play out of position again. i think when our roster is healthy, hickson off the bench for faried can really ware teams out. hopefully he recovers well from the acl tear but i want to know your take on hickson's play last season and going foward

RRFB · Post #2 » by **RRFB** » Tue Jun 24, 2014 3:59 pm

Yeah I blame Shaw more than I blame Hickson. Hickson should have never been a starting center. He was clearly a horrible fit next to Faried and it was destined to be a disaster defensively. I actually kind of like Hickson as a 15mpg backup to Faried.

Post #3 » by **The Rebel** » Tue Jun 24, 2014 6:35 pm

For the last 2 years Hickson has been one of the worst defenders in the league, I understand that he was playing out of position, but being at PF is not going to make him a better pick and roll defender, it is not going to make him better at stepping out on the perimeter, his lateral quickness is not going to get better, none of that is going to be helped in a league where the teams are going more and more to stretch 4s. Hickson signed with the Nuggets for the MLE late because nobody else wanted to sign him for more or before that, he is not worth the contract and is overpaid to be a 4th big, which is where he is at on the depth chart if McGee comes back health.

skywalker33 · Post #4 » by **skywalker33** » Tue Jun 24, 2014 7:12 pm

You make it sound like he is the only player who has defensive limitations, how many players in this league are complete two-way players ? Do you not trade for a defensive specialist just because he only scores 2.3 ppg ? TR Dunn was one of my favorite Nuggets of all-time but rarely scored in double-digits and I would take him on any team. Same goes for scorers off the bench. When JJ played off the bench, he was much more effective for this team last year.

StunnaStan · Post #5 » by **StunnaStan** » Tue Jun 24, 2014 8:10 pm

it makes sense as to why he was so bad on defense the last 2 years. He has been forced to played center in denver and portland. That could probably fly if we were in the east, but most of the good centers are in the west. There is no 6'9 player in the league that would be able to produce their same stats if they were playing the 5 for their team.
2. I would rather hickson as well as the rest of the bigs on the team not shoot on the perimiter. everyone is falling in love with chucking 3's and letting the bigs do pick and pops. I'm believer that if your name isnt dirk nowitski, kevin garnett, kevin love, and maybe 2-3 others, you shouldnt be looking for a midrange jumper as a big man. jj hickson has never been known as a pick and pop guy. why try to make him into one. just because miami has bosh toss 3s up doesnt mean you need your big to do the same. you have to play to the strength of your personel.
3. What skywalker33 said. everyone is always quick to point out how someone doesnt play defense. Iguodala played defense but as you all know, he fxcking sucked in denver if you compare his numbers to afflalo in denver. carmelo scores 30 ppg basically and his defenders probably average 12-14 ppg. he is winning his matchups in terms of points. now who would you rather have. 30ppg carmelo or 2 way playing, unforced turnover king iguodala.
this why denver needs to draft the sg they think is ready to score some buckets immediatly

Post #6 » by **The Rebel** » Tue Jun 24, 2014 9:18 pm

skywalker33 wrote:You make it sound like he is the only player who has defensive limitations, how many players in this league are complete two-way players ? Do you not trade for a defensive specialist just because he only scores 2.3 ppg ? TR Dunn was one of my favorite Nuggets of all-time but rarely scored in double-digits and I would take him on any team. Same goes for scorers off the bench. When JJ played off the bench, he was much more effective for this team last year.

Was he? The offense was worse with Hickson on the floor than with him off it, and the defense was better with him off it as well. TR Dunn was a shut down player, and while not being all that good on offense he understood his limitations and played within them. Hickson is a below average effeciency offensive player, with a high usage, while being terrible on defense. He is a suitable 4th big, but he is paid to be a 2nd/3rd big and he is not that.

StunnaStan wrote:it makes sense as to why he was so bad on defense the last 2 years. He has been forced to played center in denver and portland. That could probably fly if we were in the east, but most of the good centers are in the west. There is no 6'9 player in the league that would be able to produce their same stats if they were playing the 5 for their team.

So what was the excuse in Cleveland or Sacramento? Where he was also terrible on defense as well? Actually in Sacramento the Kings paid him to go away not long after trading a young SG and 1st round pick to get him, since he was so bad on both ends of the court/

StunnaStan wrote:2. I would rather hickson as well as the rest of the bigs on the team not shoot on the perimiter. everyone is falling in love with chucking 3's and letting the bigs do pick and pops. I'm believer that if your name isnt dirk nowitski, kevin garnett, kevin love, and maybe 2-3 others, you shouldnt be looking for a midrange jumper as a big man. jj hickson has never been known as a pick and pop guy. why try to make him into one. just because miami has bosh toss 3s up doesnt mean you need your big to do the same. you have to play to the strength of your personel.

Where did I say I wanted my bigs to shoot 3s? I said that many teams in the league are going to spread 4s and they have to be defended, Hickson does not go out on the perimeter it would hurt his rebounding stats.

StunnaStan wrote:3. What skywalker33 said. everyone is always quick to point out how someone doesnt play defense. Iguodala played defense but as you all know, he fxcking sucked in denver if you compare his numbers to afflalo in denver. carmelo scores 30 ppg basically and his defenders probably average 12-14 ppg. he is winning his matchups in terms of points. now who would you rather have. 30ppg carmelo or 2 way playing, unforced turnover king iguodala.
this why denver needs to draft the sg they think is ready to score some buckets immediatly

Funny you bring up stats, just a couple of posts after talking about the stats that Hickson puts up. Hickson sucked in Denver, he put up below average scoring effeciency, and was terrible on defense as well. Both terrible things for a PF. The guy puts up a ton of stats, but has shown to be very ineffective in helping teams win games, that is why he is on his 4th team despite only being 25 years old.

TSA_Denver3 · Post #7 » by **TSA_Denver3** » Tue Jun 24, 2014 9:28 pm

As others have mentioned, JJ Hickson might work as a big off the bench. Another issue is that he is overpaid for that role and doesnt bring anything different to the table that the other nuggets bigs do.

Wish TC would have added a team option in his contract or signed him for 2/15 instead of 3/15

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skywalker33 · Post #8 » by **skywalker33** » Tue Jun 24, 2014 9:35 pm

First off, I am and have always been on board with trading Hickson, his (and WC's) salary is very prohibitive to our salary cap, I too think he's overpaid. Also, I can't disagree with his lack of defense, just pointing out he isn't the only one in the NBA who never plays a lick of defense. I do still maintain he was used better as a big off the bench, provides versatility and is a decent rebounder and sometime scorer. If we could get any reasonable value for him, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

eathb_au · Post #9 » by **eathb_au** » Tue Jun 24, 2014 11:59 pm

Terrible defender
Incredibly selfish on the offensive end
Puts up empty stats
His effort sucks

Portland improved after he left. Denver improved when he got injured.

Would be a player that I'd take a cap hit and waive.

ET Da Gawd · Post #10 » by **ET Da Gawd** » Wed Jun 25, 2014 12:57 am

i just want to see our team health first before we do anything. not like anyones trade value is going to drop.

DaFan334 · Post #11 » by **DaFan334** » Wed Jun 25, 2014 3:00 pm

Am I the only one that thinks Arthur is the better player and much better fit to back up Faried? He is a better shooter and defender by a large margin IMO.

Powder Blue · Post #12 » by **Powder Blue** » Wed Jun 25, 2014 3:17 pm

DaFan334 wrote:Am I the only one that thinks Arthur is the better player and much better fit to back up Faried? He is a better shooter and defender by a large margin IMO.

Arthur was terribly inconsistent last year. Arthur at his best might be a better player...but we rarely saw that. I think if JJ plays 7th-8th man next season he'd be held in a higher standing around here.

RRFB · Post #13 » by **RRFB** » Wed Jun 25, 2014 3:35 pm

DaFan334 wrote:Am I the only one that thinks Arthur is the better player and much better fit to back up Faried? He is a better shooter and defender by a large margin IMO.

Yep, I'd even say Arthur is our best backup big. He's easily the best defender and he's easily the best stretch 4. It's just too bad he always has health issues.

StunnaStan · Post #14 » by **StunnaStan** » Fri Jun 27, 2014 7:34 pm

Arthur is a better stretch 4 but Hickson is a better player than Arthur period. Did Arthur ever grab 10 rebounds in a single game for Denver. Hickson did a couple Times playing the undersized 5 role. How do you guys think Arthur would have done if he was our starting center lmao. We would of had Wiggins or Parker if that were the case

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Post #15 » by **The Rebel** » Fri Jun 27, 2014 7:41 pm

StunnaStan wrote:Arthur is a better stretch 4 but Hickson is a better player than Arthur period. Did Arthur ever grab 10 rebounds in a single game for Denver. Hickson did a couple Times playing the undersized 5 role. How do you guys think Arthur would have done if he was our starting center lmao. We would of had Wiggins or Parker if that were the case

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Last I checked the game was played on both ends, Arthur is the best big defender on the roster, Hickson is the worst defender on the team overall. I would much prefer to have the better defender than an inefficient stat stuffer.

something47 · Post #16 » by **something47** » Wed Jul 30, 2014 6:51 pm

skywalker33 wrote:First off, I am and have always been on board with trading Hickson, his (and WC's) salary is very prohibitive to our salary cap, I too think he's overpaid. Also, I can't disagree with his lack of defense, just pointing out he isn't the only one in the NBA who never plays a lick of defense. I do still maintain he was used better as a big off the bench, provides versatility and is a decent rebounder and sometime scorer. If we could get any reasonable value for him, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

Just wondering, what would you consider reasonable value for him?

RRFB · Post #17 » by **RRFB** » Wed Jul 30, 2014 7:23 pm

something47 wrote:
skywalker33 wrote:First off, I am and have always been on board with trading Hickson, his (and WC's) salary is very prohibitive to our salary cap, I too think he's overpaid. Also, I can't disagree with his lack of defense, just pointing out he isn't the only one in the NBA who never plays a lick of defense. I do still maintain he was used better as a big off the bench, provides versatility and is a decent rebounder and sometime scorer. If we could get any reasonable value for him, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

Just wondering, what would you consider reasonable value for him?

Most people here would probably trade him for a bag of peanuts but I think our FO values him more than that. I could see us trading him for an expiring/non-guaranteed contract.

skywalker33 · Post #18 » by **skywalker33** » Wed Jul 30, 2014 9:29 pm

RRFB wrote:
something47 wrote:
skywalker33 wrote:First off, I am and have always been on board with trading Hickson, his (and WC's) salary is very prohibitive to our salary cap, I too think he's overpaid. Also, I can't disagree with his lack of defense, just pointing out he isn't the only one in the NBA who never plays a lick of defense. I do still maintain he was used better as a big off the bench, provides versatility and is a decent rebounder and sometime scorer. If we could get any reasonable value for him, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

Just wondering, what would you consider reasonable value for him?

Most people here would probably trade him for a bag of peanuts but I think our FO values him more than that. I could see us trading him for an expiring/non-guaranteed contract.

Personally, I could see a late first if he's traded near the deadline, he'd be a good depth player on a playoff team.
That may be optimistic on my part, so I could see a early to mid 2nd or an expiring, maybe even on overseas prospect.