Jokic

[12footrim]

I don't think people in the NBA understand how awesome this guy was last year. Hopefully your coach actually does and will play him more than 22 minutes a game.

#9th highest Real Plus Minus in the NBA (#1 center by a mile, #2 post player behind Draymond)
#24th highest PER in the NBA

9th highest +/- of any rookie in NBA history.
14th highest rookie PER in the 3point shot era (40 years)

The rookie seasons ahead of him were usually older guys that included guys

Jordan
David Robinson (24 years old)
Sabonis (31 year old)
Bird (23 year old)
etc

He had on of the best statistical rookie seasons ever and as a 20 year old. People talk about Godzingis but he can't really hold a candle to what Jokic did last year in his minutes. He should get more shine and really be held up with Townes.

[NuggetsWY]

Thanks! The fans in the Nuggets forum definitely get it. Many are saying he is now the most important player on the team. That's saying something with Gallinari still there, but claiming he is the most important might be looking at the future (and Gallinari's injury issues). Perhaps Mudiay or Murray might be in the running for MVP for the Nuggets; but a big man with Jokic's ability is rather unusual. Some of the fans felt coach should have played him more last year - a lot more. I was on another forum more and said that repeatedly there, but then again, I watch as much international ball as I can find. I'd seen what this guy could do. Yet even his Olympic team this year didn't pay him any respect at the beginning but by the end they were playing him more, just not running plays for him. In their defense, their starting lineup was pretty impressive and he is much younger.

Coach played Jokic with Nurkic towards the end of the year and has hinted that he may try that more this year. Jokic isn't really a center, but he's not really a power forward. In this time of "position-less players", it seems like he'll be even more valuable.

[12footrim]

Thanks! The fans in the Nuggets forum definitely get it. Many are saying he is now the most important player on the team. That's saying something with Gallinari still there, but claiming he is the most important might be looking at the future (and Gallinari's injury issues). Perhaps Mudiay or Murray might be in the running for MVP for the Nuggets; but a big man with Jokic's ability is rather unusual. Some of the fans felt coach should have played him more last year - a lot more. I was on another forum more and said that repeatedly there, but then again, I watch as much international ball as I can find. I'd seen what this guy could do. Yet even his Olympic team this year didn't pay him any respect at the beginning but by the end they were playing him more, just not running plays for him. In their defense, their starting lineup was pretty impressive and he is much younger.

Coach played Jokic with Nurkic towards the end of the year and has hinted that he may try that more this year. Jokic isn't really a center, but he's not really a power forward. In this time of "position-less players", it seems like he'll be even more valuable.

I just made a trade to get up to draft him in my dynasty fantasy league so I was doing research to make sure everything checked out and the more I dug the more I was kind of surprised just how good he was especially in the plus minus team on off stuff. That's from a guy that already had an eye on him and knew statistically what he was producing.

I watched a lot of his highlights, certainly highly skilled and even checked his measurable. I disagree about being a center. He's got an above average standing reach for a center and one that's 3 inches longer than Anthony Davis for instance. 9-3" standing reach which is probably more important than just being tall with a long neck or something since it's your hands that are tall. The guy checks out and defensively he must be smart because his numbers check out there too. He rated already like a top 25 player in the NBA last year by most stats.

[NuggetsWY]

I just made a trade to get up to draft him in my dynasty fantasy league so I was doing research to make sure everything checked out and the more I dug the more I was kind of surprised just how good he was especially in the plus minus team on off stuff. That's from a guy that already had an eye on him and knew statistically what he was producing.

I watched a lot of his highlights, certainly highly skilled and even checked his measurable. I disagree about being a center. He's got an above average standing reach for a center and one that's 3 inches longer than Anthony Davis for instance. 9-3" standing reach which is probably more important than just being tall with a long neck or something since it's your hands that are tall. The guy checks out and defensively he must be smart because his numbers check out there too. He rated already like a top 25 player in the NBA last year by most stats.

You'll probably like him for fantasy (I have zero experience there). He should get 25-30 mpg this year. I'm thinking he should get 15 pts & 9 rebs per game and could go higher. I don't know how it translates to fantasy but he's just plain old smart. Not a lot of blocks but always seems to have his man shooting from a place where he's not going to hit his average. He's such a brilliant passer that everyone watches for his passes and he still sneaks a few great ones in there. I know fantasy is about numbers, not fancy, but those spectacular passes keep people playing off from him just a little and that gives him space. I suspect that as a rookie, who barely got 20 mpg, he was a little afraid to shoot because if he missed, he'd get the bench. Really expecting a lot more from him, even with Gallinari, Chandler, Barton, Harris, Murray, Mudiay, Beasley all waiting to score too - oh yeah, add in Arthur and Hernangomez and Nelson. Hey, at least Nurkic & Faried aren't looking to be big time scorers.

[12footrim]

You'll probably like him for fantasy (I have zero experience there). He should get 25-30 mpg this year. I'm thinking he should get 15 pts & 9 rebs per game and could go higher. I don't know how it translates to fantasy but he's just plain old smart. Not a lot of blocks but always seems to have his man shooting from a place where he's not going to hit his average. He's such a brilliant passer that everyone watches for his passes and he still sneaks a few great ones in there. I know fantasy is about numbers, not fancy, but those spectacular passes keep people playing off from him just a little and that gives him space. I suspect that as a rookie, who barely got 20 mpg, he was a little afraid to shoot because if he missed, he'd get the bench. Really expecting a lot more from him, even with Gallinari, Chandler, Barton, Harris, Murray, Mudiay, Beasley all waiting to score too - oh yeah, add in Arthur and Hernangomez and Nelson. Hey, at least Nurkic & Faried aren't looking to be big time scorers.

I wager hundreds of dollars on fantasy so I subscribe to a service that rates and projects all this stuff for the season.

Last year he was the #68th best fantasy player overall despite only playing 21 minutes a game and the 13th best per minute average.

Your projections are close to this season projections on their service.

14.1ppg
9.9 rpg
3.7 apg
1.6 spg
1.0 bpg
.507 FG %
.833 FT%
in 29.0 minutes per game

That's how they see him this coming season although they tag him as risky and say it all depends on Malone playing him. Projects as the #14th rated fantasy player overall and the 9th best per minute this season. Said he could eventually be a top 5 fantasy player in the NBA. As heavily as the plus minus stuff backs him up I don't know why he couldn't be a top 5 real player before all is said and done. Doesn't seem like he gets a fair shake because he was a 2nd round pick. Eventually people want care though if he keeps this up.

[NuggetsWY]

You'll probably like him for fantasy (I have zero experience there). He should get 25-30 mpg this year. I'm thinking he should get 15 pts & 9 rebs per game and could go higher. I don't know how it translates to fantasy but he's just plain old smart. Not a lot of blocks but always seems to have his man shooting from a place where he's not going to hit his average. He's such a brilliant passer that everyone watches for his passes and he still sneaks a few great ones in there. I know fantasy is about numbers, not fancy, but those spectacular passes keep people playing off from him just a little and that gives him space. I suspect that as a rookie, who barely got 20 mpg, he was a little afraid to shoot because if he missed, he'd get the bench. Really expecting a lot more from him, even with Gallinari, Chandler, Barton, Harris, Murray, Mudiay, Beasley all waiting to score too - oh yeah, add in Arthur and Hernangomez and Nelson. Hey, at least Nurkic & Faried aren't looking to be big time scorers.

I wager hundreds of dollars on fantasy so I subscribe to a service that rates and projects all this stuff for the season.

Last year he was the #68th best fantasy player overall despite only playing 21 minutes a game and the 13th best per minute average.

Your projections are close to this season projections on their service.

14.1ppg
9.9 rpg
3.7 apg
1.6 spg
1.0 bpg
.507 FG %
.833 FT%
in 29.0 minutes per game

That's how they see him this coming season although they tag him as risky and say it all depends on Malone playing him. Projects as the #14th rated fantasy player overall and the 9th best per minute this season. Said he could eventually be a top 5 fantasy player in the NBA. As heavily as the plus minus stuff backs him up I don't know why he couldn't be a top 5 real player before all is said and done. Doesn't seem like he gets a fair shake because he was a 2nd round pick.

Wow - I'm not a good statistics guy. I like to look at them once a month or so and like I said, never even looked at playing fantasy. Maybe I need to setup a service and sell my projections. Of course the only team I know very much about is the Nuggets, so that might limit my chances.

[12footrim]

I've been playing 5 years and their projections are usually pretty accurate or at least well based, they even factor in injury history and project games played.

Other nuggets of interest projections this season

#14 Jokic
#68 Harris.........................14.7ppg in 33 minutes per game
#71 Garlinari (62 games played)....17.8ppg, 4.5rpg, 2.3apg...32 minutes per game

#132 Nurkic (66 games played).....11.5ppg, 7.5 rpg 1.8bpg in only 24 minutes per game

That's your only projected top 130 players. Makes sense for a deep team, they project a lot of your players missing games and injury risk.

Nurkic pretty productive in counting stats at least, not all that efficient though. I guess they kind of see him and Jokic splitting time and allow for him to play a little more when he's were likely to get injured at some point and to play a few minutes at PF with him a game as well.

[NuggetsWY]

I've been playing 5 years and their projections are usually pretty accurate or at least well based, they even factor in injury history and project games played.

Other nuggets of interest projections this season

#14 Jokic
#68 Harris.........................14.7ppg in 33 minutes per game
#71 Garlinari (62 games played)....17.8ppg, 4.5rpg, 2.3apg...32 minutes per game

#132 Nurkic (66 games played).....11.5ppg, 7.5 rpg 1.8bpg in only 24 minutes per game

That's your only projected top 130 players. Makes sense for a deep team, they project a lot of your players missing games and injury risk.

Nurkic pretty productive in counting stats at least, not all that efficient though. I guess they kind of see him and Jokic splitting time and allow for him to play a little more when he's were likely to get injured at some point and to play a few minutes at PF with him a game as well.

OK, now I'm not feeling so smart. I would be afraid of Gallinari being that high because he usually only plays about 60 games a year but for those games, he's great at scoring, exceptionally high FT usage. Plus Chandler is back and he's going to play SF minutes and I expect the Nuggets to hold Gallinari's minutes down, hoping he can play more games - oh yeah, Hernangomez & Arthur might get a few SF minutes, maybe.

I can see Harris MAYBE making 15 ppg but I'd also be afraid of his minutes staying at 33, which means he wouldn't get those points. Barton will be behind Gallinari & Chandler instead of just Gallinari. He's going to get more minutes at SG than last year - by a lot. Plus Murray & Beasley are going to be fighting for minutes. I'd have guessed Harris at around 12 ppg and 25 mpg (or that ballpark).

Nurkic might just be in those ranges. He had a bad year last year, not sure his injury ever healed fully and missing training camp with a new coach always hurts a young player. If Malone plays Nurkic 24 mpg, that means Jokic is playing some PF. I can see that.

All the opinions of a Nuggets fanatic who's not too smart at the rest of this.

[skywalker33]

Interesting, has Nurkic revived his career enough to start this season, with Jokic moving to the PF position. Easy for Nurkic, he hasn't had to adjust from the C position, but looks to be playing like he did in his rookie season, perhaps even better. Jokic, while still playing well, hasn't stood out like Nurkic has in the preseason as much. Is this move to PF detrimental to Jokic's potential ?

[NuggetsWY]

Interesting, has Nurkic revived his career enough to start this season, with Jokic moving to the PF position. Easy for Nurkic, he hasn't had to adjust from the C position, but looks to be playing like he did in his rookie season, perhaps even better. Jokic, while still playing well, hasn't stood out like Nurkic has in the preseason as much. Is this move to PF detrimental to Jokic's potential ?

I'm thinking Jurkic is just a preseason experiment and Jokic will be the starting center. At PF, it will probably be hard to be effective for extended minutes. Anthony Davis, Draymond Green, Porzingis just to name three that I don't believe he matches up with very well. Short periods of the two of them, could be devastating against certain opponent combinations, but Jokic isn't going to be able to go out and cover stretch-4s that can handle too.

Malone is probably playing the two of them to placate fans (and players) but unless they sign another center, Jokic is unlikely to see more than 5-10 minutes at PF, especially considering Faried + Arthur and Gallinari sliding over to PF. Even if Nurkic plays 30 minutes at center, that leaves Jokic 18 minutes at center and if he plays 30 minutes total, that's 12 at PF. Now what does Malone do with the remaining 36 PF minutes? 12 to Gallinari to allow Chandler more SF? 24 minutes to split between Faried & Arthur? The numbers just don't match up.

Nurkic & Jokic 24 each
Faried & Arthur 24 each
Gallinari & Chandler 24 each
Harris 30 & Barton 18
Mudiay 30 & Nelson 18 with Murray eating into minutes at both guard slots.

That seems like the "foundation" rotation at least to start the year. Beasley & Hernangomez & slot #15 will have to wait for injuries to get much playing time.

[TunaFish]

Interesting, has Nurkic revived his career enough to start this season, with Jokic moving to the PF position. Easy for Nurkic, he hasn't had to adjust from the C position, but looks to be playing like he did in his rookie season, perhaps even better. Jokic, while still playing well, hasn't stood out like Nurkic has in the preseason as much. Is this move to PF detrimental to Jokic's potential ?

I'm thinking Jurkic is just a preseason experiment and Jokic will be the starting center. At PF, it will probably be hard to be effective for extended minutes. Anthony Davis, Draymond Green, Porzingis just to name three that I don't believe he matches up with very well. Short periods of the two of them, could be devastating against certain opponent combinations, but Jokic isn't going to be able to go out and cover stretch-4s that can handle too.

Malone is probably playing the two of them to placate fans (and players) but unless they sign another center, Jokic is unlikely to see more than 5-10 minutes at PF, especially considering Faried + Arthur and Gallinari sliding over to PF. Even if Nurkic plays 30 minutes at center, that leaves Jokic 18 minutes at center and if he plays 30 minutes total, that's 12 at PF. Now what does Malone do with the remaining 36 PF minutes? 12 to Gallinari to allow Chandler more SF? 24 minutes to split between Faried & Arthur? The numbers just don't match up.

Nurkic & Jokic 24 each
Faried & Arthur 24 each
Gallinari & Chandler 24 each
Harris 30 & Barton 18
Mudiay 30 & Nelson 18 with Murray eating into minutes at both guard slots.

That seems like the "foundation" rotation at least to start the year. Beasley & Hernangomez & slot #15 will have to wait for injuries to get much playing time.

I get your point about the lack of a backup center. Barton is getting a strong look at shooting guard, as well. Malone is experimenting. Still, I think we are seeing something special out of Jokic and Nurkic playing together. Have you not see it?

[TunaFish]

Interesting, has Nurkic revived his career enough to start this season, with Jokic moving to the PF position. Easy for Nurkic, he hasn't had to adjust from the C position, but looks to be playing like he did in his rookie season, perhaps even better. Jokic, while still playing well, hasn't stood out like Nurkic has in the preseason as much. Is this move to PF detrimental to Jokic's potential ?

They are learning to play together. I think this has always been the plan, at least since the end of the season when they were forced to face with what to do with Faried and his defense. To me, Faried would be great off the bench but you better have some defense from around him. Not the same issues with either Jokic or Nurkic, so you start them. They can do it all with complete floor games, score, rebound and good to great defense. Jokic has to learn the assignments of the power forward position but he is effective now.

Once Jokic arrived as a player, they had to find a way to take advantage of his skills outside the paint. Malone has been quoted saying that Jokic doesn't have a position. He can play them all. The only issue is whether he plays center the best and then you can't afford to hold him back. On the other hand, you can't hold Nurkic back either.

Isn't it great to have this problem!

[NuggetsWY]

I was a huge fan of the Jokic-Nurkic combo idea. Now that I've seen it, I'm less of a fan. I'd like to see it used when the opponent tries to go to two bigs against the Nuggets. Then again, playing them together is going to give other teams fits in many ways. Color me with mixed feelings on this one. What I am CONFIDENT of is that I love having both of them on the team. I'd love to see them both play 30 mpg which would mean 12 mpg together.