Game 30: Denver Nuggets @ Oklahoma City 8:00 PM ET

[Mickey8]

They are already reduced this year, he is capable scorer , I am sure that he can adjust not solely being point guard on this team.

[Mickey8]

See, I knew you would evade a direct response although it doesn't surprise me that you re-directed the blame, you have to keep Jokic on that pedestal. If you were watching the game, you would have noticed that he was coming back in after tweaking his ankle, nothing serious but it did show that he is STILL recovering from the severe ankle sprain he sustained a couple weeks back. That's the reason he isn't starting right now, they're trying to be cautious bringing him back slower than you like. Westbrook was looking to EXPLOIT his weakness, he recognized what apparently you refuse to acknowledge.

I didn't evade your question, the blame on the defensive end is on the collective as whole , you can't blame just one player, when Westbrook is in the zone its hard to stop him.
As far starting issue goes, he was playing 25 minutes last night, if he was hurt you don't play him at all, he could have played those minutes last night as the starter. To me this look like Malone was awarding Plumlee for that win against Pelicans, I wouldn't be surprise a bit if Malone promotes Plumlee as the starter until the end of this season, everything Malone does is on his own term, I don't think Jokic had any saying in that decision to start the games off the bench.

Your logic is very flawed IMO. Jokic is really in a contract year, to create dissension between himself/the Nuggets and Jolic is career suicide.....paranoid much ?? If Plumlee is promoted to a starter for the end of the season, I'll gladly eat crow. Care to make that as a wager with the corresponding result ??

Do you mean if Malone is creating dissension ??? I think he already doing that and I am not paranoid. If you are marketing Jokic as your future than you build off of him , you then continue what you were doing last season , and not suddenly change everything just because you have signed aging veteran in the last off season .

[skywalker33]

They are already reduced this year, he is capable scorer , I am sure that he can adjust not being point guard on this team.

Jokic himself has diminished his PG skills, his passing hasn't been as crisp as last year, nor has he passed as much. Not sure Malone had anything to do with that. And no one has questioned his scoring capabilities, but his willingness does seem to be in question. I haven't heard ANYONE say he is on shooting limitations, except you.

[skywalker33]

I didn't evade your question, the blame on the defensive end is on the collective as whole , you can't blame just one player, when Westbrook is in the zone its hard to stop him.
As far starting issue goes, he was playing 25 minutes last night, if he was hurt you don't play him at all, he could have played those minutes last night as the starter. To me this look like Malone was awarding Plumlee for that win against Pelicans, I wouldn't be surprise a bit if Malone promotes Plumlee as the starter until the end of this season, everything Malone does is on his own term, I don't think Jokic had any saying in that decision to start the games off the bench.

Your logic is very flawed IMO. Jokic is really in a contract year, to create dissension between himself/the Nuggets and Jolic is career suicide.....paranoid much ?? If Plumlee is promoted to a starter for the end of the season, I'll gladly eat crow. Care to make that as a wager with the corresponding result ??

Do you mean if Malone is creating dissension ??? I think he already doing that and I am not paranoid. If you are marketing Jokic as your future than you build off of him , you then continue what you were doing last season , and not suddenly change everything just because you have signed aging veteran in the last off season .

Well then show me where Jokic is complaining, I haven't seen him say anything ??? Why wouldn't he speak up if there was a problem ?And as far as I can see, trying to implement a better defensive scheme is the biggest change, why would any star refuse to get better on the defensive end ???

[Mickey8]

They are already reduced this year, he is capable scorer , I am sure that he can adjust not being point guard on this team.

Jokic himself has diminished his PG skills, his passing hasn't been as crisp as last year, nor has he passed as much. Not sure Malone had anything to do with that. And no one has questioned his scoring capabilities, but his willingness does seem to be in question. I haven't heard ANYONE say he is on shooting limitations, except you.

His skills can't diminish over the night , he's still a great passer for the big man. The only two games this season have resembled some of his PG duty games from the last season and those were the games at home against Orlando and Toronto, he had season high's in the assists in those games. To be clear I don't like him being strictly PG on this team , he wasn't that all the time last season, in some games he was the scorer , in some facilitator and in others mix of both. This season he's reduced to be by stander in many games he played , which is sad. I don't think he has problem with the will to shoot, he proved otherwise against Washington ,New York, Nets , Memphis ,Malone has to be vocal , tell his guard to pass the ball to Jokic, to involve him on the offense, often they just ignore him, especially Murray, Jokic was visibly frustrated by him many times this season.

[Mickey8]

Your logic is very flawed IMO. Jokic is really in a contract year, to create dissension between himself/the Nuggets and Jolic is career suicide.....paranoid much ?? If Plumlee is promoted to a starter for the end of the season, I'll gladly eat crow. Care to make that as a wager with the corresponding result ??

Do you mean if Malone is creating dissension ??? I think he already doing that and I am not paranoid. If you are marketing Jokic as your future than you build off of him , you then continue what you were doing last season , and not suddenly change everything just because you have signed aging veteran in the last off season .

Well then show me where Jokic is complaining, I haven't seen him say anything ??? Why wouldn't he speak up if there was a problem ?And as far as I can see, trying to implement a better defensive scheme is the biggest change, why would any star refuse to get better on the defensive end ???

I already wrote that his mentality is different than for an example Nurkic, he wont go and complain in the media, but you can notice him being not happy many times this season, body language can tell a lot about player state of mind.
Improving defense is nice but why you have to change the entire offense, Let Millsap adjust to it , its not like Denver defense is that much improved , the Nuggets opponents are still scoring 120+ points against the Nuggets very often ,and they were scoring like that against Denver even when Jokic was out of the line up . Its not like that Nuggets went on the big winning streak with this new defensive scheme, they are on the same pace from the last season, wining game or two than losing one or two etc.

[skywalker33]

Do you mean if Malone is creating dissension ??? I think he already doing that and I am not paranoid. If you are marketing Jokic as your future than you build off of him , you then continue what you were doing last season , and not suddenly change everything just because you have signed aging veteran in the last off season .

Well then show me where Jokic is complaining, I haven't seen him say anything ??? Why wouldn't he speak up if there was a problem ?And as far as I can see, trying to implement a better defensive scheme is the biggest change, why would any star refuse to get better on the defensive end ???

I already wrote that his mentality is different than for an example Nurkic, he wont go and complain in the media, but you can notice him being not happy many times this season, body language can tell a lot about player state of mind.
Improving defense is nice but why you have to change the entire offense, Let Millsap adjust to it , its not like Denver defense is that much improved , the Nuggets opponents are still scoring 120+ points against the Nuggets very often ,and they were scoring like that against Denver even when Jokic was out of the line up . Its not like that Nuggets went on the big winning streak with this new defensive scheme, they are on the same pace from the last season, wining game or two than losing one or two etc.

Glad you got your shrink degree cause you'd suck as a lawyer....you talk about the Nuggets lack of defense, Nuggets seemed better on D without him, maybe even the same without Millsap too. They're a +.3 on the season, your facts are a bit askew with the 120ppg, but that's just another exaggeration, I get it. And most teams that are missing their top two players don't go on winning streaks, yet the Nuggets maintained status quo. As for the pace they are on for 44-46 wins, a 10% increase over last year so again, you seems a little messed on that.

I see that you're a Jokic fan and not a lot more, to each his own

[NuggetsWY]

Well then show me where Jokic is complaining, I haven't seen him say anything ??? Why wouldn't he speak up if there was a problem ?And as far as I can see, trying to implement a better defensive scheme is the biggest change, why would any star refuse to get better on the defensive end ???

I already wrote that his mentality is different than for an example Nurkic, he wont go and complain in the media, but you can notice him being not happy many times this season, body language can tell a lot about player state of mind.
Improving defense is nice but why you have to change the entire offense, Let Millsap adjust to it , its not like Denver defense is that much improved , the Nuggets opponents are still scoring 120+ points against the Nuggets very often ,and they were scoring like that against Denver even when Jokic was out of the line up . Its not like that Nuggets went on the big winning streak with this new defensive scheme, they are on the same pace from the last season, wining game or two than losing one or two etc.

Glad you got your shrink degree cause you'd suck as a lawyer....you talk about the Nuggets lack of defense, Nuggets seemed better on D without him, maybe even the same without Millsap too. They're a +.3 on the season, your facts are a bit askew with the 120ppg, but that's just another exaggeration, I get it. And most teams that are missing their top two players don't go on winning streaks, yet the Nuggets maintained status quo. As for the pace they are on for 44-46 wins, a 10% increase over last year so again, you seems a little messed on that.

I see that you're a Jokic fan and not a lot more, to each his own

I do believe you will find that with Jokic, the Nuggets' defense gave up an average of 106.3 ppg.
In games without Jokic, the Nuggets' defense gave up an average of 109.7 ppg.

Compared to league averages our defense would then be 20th with Jokic & 27th without Jokic.
So arguing defense is like comparing one sinking boat to another sinking boat and saying that one is not sinking as fast as the other. But that's just my opinion and I've been wrong before.

Why not consider the Nuggets offense? With Jokic 106.4 ppg - without Jokic 110.6 ppg --- that would be 12th with Jokic & 6th without Jokic.

Statistics seem to say the Nuggets are better on defense with Jokic and are worse on offense with Jokic. Based on last season, those numbers are vastly different. So I would say that Jokic is being poorly used. Of course all of that is dependent upon who is playing with Jokic and it is assumed that Jokic is our best player. So yeah, Jokic is being poorly used IMO.

[Mickey8]

The Game against Boston 124 points allowed , Pacers 126, Pelicans 123,Mavericks 123 , I don't know what are you talking about , that's the most points allowed in the games since Jokic got hurt . You are saying team is better without Jokic on the defense but with Jokic in the line up Nuggets had only two games when opposing teams have scored 120 + points and those were the games against the two best offenses in the league , the best two teams in the league as the matter of fact , I think they are way better teams than Boston, GS and Houston Now you sound like Jokic hater , which you probably are This season pace is similar to the last season pace , from the point where Jokic was promoted as the starting center, up until the end of the season.

[NuggetsWY]

The Game against Boston 124 points allowed , Pacers 126, Pelicans 123,Mavericks 123 , I don't know what are you talking about , that's the most points allowed in the games since Jokic got hurt . You are saying team is better without Jokic on the defense but with Jokic in the line up Nuggets had only two games when opposing teams have scored 120 + points and those were the games against the two best offenses in the league , the best two teams in the league as the matter of fact , I think they are way better teams than Boston, GS and Houston Now you sound like Jokic hater , which you probably are This season pace is similar to the last season pace , from the point where Jokic was promoted as the starting center, up until the end of the season.

Yep, they have a great many issues and you caught my drift. But I don't think they are as good as last year because of Jokic. I think they are about the same as last year because Malone is misusing Jokic or we would be better than last year.

[The Rebel]

Did last season's offense propel us into the playoffs? It seemed to me that it started to fail when the games began to matter and the opposing team applied pressure on defense.

What is the point of this post. Offense was how we won games last year. It faltered because our veterans and Barton would heave and haul the ball when they got tired of getting bodied in the paint. We lost games because the team lacked leadership and didn't show up when they checked the injury report and saw that our opponents were missing players.

Offense is still the reason why our team is winning games this year, we're just running a noticeably different and worse variant. Why not run the offense that works much better?

The point of my post was to highlight that we had a good regular season offense that was easily disrupted by a little defensive pressure. Just returning to last year is not ideal solution. Building an offense that can succeed against a variety of defensive schemes and has countermeasures for various pressures will help the team succeed when the going gets tough.

You and I must have watched different games last year, the offense when ran through Jokic did not collapse when the defense applied pressure, it collapsed when Chandler, Nelson, and the other veterans decided that they were not going to use the system and were going to use iso plays and take stupid shots. The system that we are using now is designed for more iso plays and stupid shots, which is why this offense struggles especially in the 4th quarter when teams focus on defense. If anything this offense is outdated and proven not to work when you do not have dominant iso scorers.

[MidMountain]

What is the point of this post. Offense was how we won games last year. It faltered because our veterans and Barton would heave and haul the ball when they got tired of getting bodied in the paint. We lost games because the team lacked leadership and didn't show up when they checked the injury report and saw that our opponents were missing players.

Offense is still the reason why our team is winning games this year, we're just running a noticeably different and worse variant. Why not run the offense that works much better?

The point of my post was to highlight that we had a good regular season offense that was easily disrupted by a little defensive pressure. Just returning to last year is not ideal solution. Building an offense that can succeed against a variety of defensive schemes and has countermeasures for various pressures will help the team succeed when the going gets tough.

You and I must have watched different games last year, the offense when ran through Jokic did not collapse when the defense applied pressure, it collapsed when Chandler, Nelson, and the other veterans decided that they were not going to use the system and were going to use iso plays and take stupid shots. The system that we are using now is designed for more iso plays and stupid shots, which is why this offense struggles especially in the 4th quarter when teams focus on defense. If anything this offense is outdated and proven not to work when you do not have dominant iso scorers.

We lost several close games last year because the opposition was able to get key stops. The offense failed. It's difficult to say whether the motion offense was halted by the opposition and that players resorted to iso play or that their iso play was what halted the motion.

[MidMountain]

The point of my post was to highlight that we had a good regular season offense that was easily disrupted by a little defensive pressure. Just returning to last year is not ideal solution. Building an offense that can succeed against a variety of defensive schemes and has countermeasures for various pressures will help the team succeed when the going gets tough.

So most people, when they fail, learn from their mistakes and build upon that. They don't scrap up the entire project and head in a new direction. We didn't have a good "regular season" offense. We had a great offense. There's heavy revisionist history going on in your post. The only game we fell under 100 pts in that final stretch was against a Pelicans team where all our players played down to competition when Cousins was sitting. What killed us wasn't our inability to score. It was our inability to defend.

What have we seen this year that makes you say this is an offense designed to be robust in the playoffs. What we're seeing is a team that has tons and tons of trouble executing halfcourt, which is a huge difference from last year when there were little nuances and mixups incorporated that helped the cutters get open under the rim. Our current regular season offense makes other teams look like they're running playoff defenses.

While I am guilty of disparaging last year's offense, I see several posters are guilty of deifying it. While a great offense, it was not perfect. My posts are definitely a reaction to the vitriol against this team after every loss. I don't advocate a blind trust of everything that is happening, but am trying to present alternative perspectives to: this year's offense sucks, Malone sucks, the Nuggets suck!

[NuggetsWY]

The point of my post was to highlight that we had a good regular season offense that was easily disrupted by a little defensive pressure. Just returning to last year is not ideal solution. Building an offense that can succeed against a variety of defensive schemes and has countermeasures for various pressures will help the team succeed when the going gets tough.

So most people, when they fail, learn from their mistakes and build upon that. They don't scrap up the entire project and head in a new direction. We didn't have a good "regular season" offense. We had a great offense. There's heavy revisionist history going on in your post. The only game we fell under 100 pts in that final stretch was against a Pelicans team where all our players played down to competition when Cousins was sitting. What killed us wasn't our inability to score. It was our inability to defend.

What have we seen this year that makes you say this is an offense designed to be robust in the playoffs. What we're seeing is a team that has tons and tons of trouble executing halfcourt, which is a huge difference from last year when there were little nuances and mixups incorporated that helped the cutters get open under the rim. Our current regular season offense makes other teams look like they're running playoff defenses.

While I am guilty of disparaging last year's offense, I see several posters are guilty of deifying it. While a great offense, it was not perfect. My posts are definitely a reaction to the vitriol against this team after every loss. I don't advocate a blind trust of everything that is happening, but am trying to present alternative perspectives to: this year's offense sucks, Malone sucks, the Nuggets suck!

True - but if you think about it, last year's offense was "don't let the coach call a play, we'll just 'street ball" around Jokic" - but at least it worked. But then again, that's more or less the way Malone's defense is too - and that doesn't work at all.

One of the biggest signs to me is the extreme scoring differences both by the Nuggets and against the Nuggets. That speaks loudly of a team that is either poorly coached or not listening to their coach.

Game 1 - give up 106
Game 2 - give up 79
Game 3 - give up 109

Magic score 107 but Portland only 99 then New Orleans 114? Seems like Portland is the best team but we held them to fewer points in that 3 game stretch.

While at the same time we scored 125 then 82 then 146 against those same three teams.

And there are more samples.

[MidMountain]

Malone with the worst coaching decision of the year. Tells the team to foul so OKC gets the last shot instead of Denver. Now ive seen everything. SHould be fired for that alone

This was mostly on Murray. Malone called for an early foul, but Murray didn't do it. If he had, we would have about 8 seconds left for the last play. Murray doesn't commit the foul that Malone was calling for, Lyles sees Malone yelling for the foul and by the time he can commit one it was too late. The shot clock reset to 14 seconds and that left only almost no time on the game clock.

[Mickey8]

The point of my post was to highlight that we had a good regular season offense that was easily disrupted by a little defensive pressure. Just returning to last year is not ideal solution. Building an offense that can succeed against a variety of defensive schemes and has countermeasures for various pressures will help the team succeed when the going gets tough.

You and I must have watched different games last year, the offense when ran through Jokic did not collapse when the defense applied pressure, it collapsed when Chandler, Nelson, and the other veterans decided that they were not going to use the system and were going to use iso plays and take stupid shots. The system that we are using now is designed for more iso plays and stupid shots, which is why this offense struggles especially in the 4th quarter when teams focus on defense. If anything this offense is outdated and proven not to work when you do not have dominant iso scorers.

We lost several close games last year because the opposition was able to get key stops. The offense failed. It's difficult to say whether the motion offense was halted by the opposition and that players resorted to iso play or that their iso play was what halted the motion.

Nelson and Barton have lost at least 6,7 games because they wanted to play hero ball, I remember clearly how we criticized them and Malone for that.

[The Rebel]

The point of my post was to highlight that we had a good regular season offense that was easily disrupted by a little defensive pressure. Just returning to last year is not ideal solution. Building an offense that can succeed against a variety of defensive schemes and has countermeasures for various pressures will help the team succeed when the going gets tough.

You and I must have watched different games last year, the offense when ran through Jokic did not collapse when the defense applied pressure, it collapsed when Chandler, Nelson, and the other veterans decided that they were not going to use the system and were going to use iso plays and take stupid shots. The system that we are using now is designed for more iso plays and stupid shots, which is why this offense struggles especially in the 4th quarter when teams focus on defense. If anything this offense is outdated and proven not to work when you do not have dominant iso scorers.

We lost several close games last year because the opposition was able to get key stops. The offense failed. It's difficult to say whether the motion offense was halted by the opposition and that players resorted to iso play or that their iso play was what halted the motion.

No I would say it was pretty obvious what was happening last year, go read through the game threads of the close losses. Nelso jacking up terrible shots or one. Of the other veterans trying to take over the game playing iso. With Finch leaving despite rumors we were paying him top dollar for an assistant, the end of game situations last year, and the way Malone went back tto an iso/drive and kick offense 1st chance we got, I would say that it was Malone's call to move away from the offense in the 4th quarter last year and this year in total.