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Barton: Nugget or Not?

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Barton: Nugget or Not? 

Post#1 » by NuggetsWY » Sat Apr 14, 2018 2:22 am

Early reports are quoting Connelly as saying that re-signing Barton is a priority (although he place Jokic at the top of the list).
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Re: Barton: Nugget or Not? 

Post#2 » by Mickey8 » Sat Apr 14, 2018 2:52 am

I am not the fan of his , if he stays his role should be reduced and Denver should not overpay him.
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Re: Barton: Nugget or Not? 

Post#3 » by skywalker33 » Sat Apr 14, 2018 2:55 am

Silly topic, we all KNOW he isn't coming back !
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Re: Barton: Nugget or Not? 

Post#4 » by Zaccaibone » Sat Apr 14, 2018 3:16 am

He may that's what I think
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Re: Barton: Nugget or Not? 

Post#5 » by U hova » Sat Apr 14, 2018 4:37 am

For the love of me no.
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Re: Barton: Nugget or Not? 

Post#6 » by youngthegiant » Sat Apr 14, 2018 5:20 am

I say yes. Will Barton was constantly filling different roles for this team. Denver fans need to relax, yes he takes some bad shots. But Barton is the real deal and people always overlook him. He was averaging 16,4 and 5 on 12 shots a game.Shooting 45% from the field and 37% from 3. Denver's best lineup was when Barton started at sf with the other guys(Murray, Harris, Millsap, Jokic). Those 5 guys only saw 65 minutes together the entire season. They posted a 124 offensive rating and 92 defensive rating in those minutes.(32.7 Net Rating) Barton is a keeper and should be the starting small forward next season. With that said, Denver needs to pay him around 14 million and look to move some salary right after. While also looking to add some defense on the wing(my guy Troy brown Jr. at #14). Mason Plumlee, Faried, Arthur, Chandler don't bring anything close to what Barton has brought to this team. Barton is that extra scorer in the starting lineup and I'm frankly excited to see those 5 guys on the court together full time.
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Re: Barton: Nugget or Not? 

Post#7 » by NuggetsWY » Sat Apr 14, 2018 5:51 am

skywalker33 wrote:Silly topic, we all KNOW he isn't coming back !

Tell that to Connelly. He says he's keeping Malone and wants Barton. Are you believing one statement but not the other? :-?
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Re: Barton: Nugget or Not? 

Post#8 » by NuggetsWY » Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:02 am

youngthegiant wrote:I say yes. Will Barton was constantly filling different roles for this team. Denver fans need to relax, yes he takes some bad shots. But Barton is the real deal and people always overlook him. He was averaging 16,4 and 5 on 12 shots a game.Shooting 45% from the field and 37% from 3. Denver's best lineup was when Barton started at sf with the other guys(Murray, Harris, Millsap, Jokic). Those 5 guys only saw 65 minutes together the entire season. They posted a 124 offensive rating and 92 defensive rating in those minutes.(32.7 Net Rating) Barton is a keeper and should be the starting small forward next season. With that said, Denver needs to pay him around 14 million and look to move some salary right after. While also looking to add some defense on the wing(my guy Troy brown Jr. at #14). Mason Plumlee, Faried, Arthur, Chandler don't bring anything close to what Barton has brought to this team. Barton is that extra scorer in the starting lineup and I'm frankly excited to see those 5 guys on the court together full time.

OK, we see him very differently, but that's OK. I'd love Barton off the bench. I don't like his game with Jokic but when he is hot, he's unstoppable. I just wish he'd learn what to do when he's not hot.

But my objection is the 14 million you mention. For ease of argument, let's call the salary cap $120m. If you have three stars that all make $25m. That's $75m leaving $45m for your other 12 players or roughly $4m per player. We've signed Faried & Arthur & Plumlee to contracts that are well above that $4m level and it is starting to hurt.

Where's the dividing line?
Stars get $25m (or more)?
Other starters get $15m? That leaves $105m for five players.
Bench players get $1.5m? You won't have much of a bench.
The Nuggets need to learn how to manage their cap and spending $14m on Barton is not going to do it. He was second on the team in minutes but fourth on the team in scoring. He's not a primary option on the Nuggets, not as a starter. He should be paid bench salary and he could become the Sixth Man of the Year.
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Re: Barton: Nugget or Not? 

Post#9 » by skywalker33 » Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:25 am

NuggetsWY wrote:
skywalker33 wrote:Silly topic, we all KNOW he isn't coming back !

Tell that to Connelly. He says he's keeping Malone and wants Barton. Are you believing one statement but not the other? :-?


Well what else is he supposed to say ??
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Re: Barton: Nugget or Not? 

Post#10 » by psimanic1 » Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:31 am

If he will play SF(Chandler leaves, we get SF trough draft) I'm fine with it, but I want to see Beasley getting more minutes, he can be much better than Barton
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Re: Barton: Nugget or Not? 

Post#11 » by NuggetsWY » Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:00 pm

skywalker33 wrote:
NuggetsWY wrote:
skywalker33 wrote:Silly topic, we all KNOW he isn't coming back !

Tell that to Connelly. He says he's keeping Malone and wants Barton. Are you believing one statement but not the other? :-?

Well what else is he supposed to say ??

Sorta' like a used car salesman? :cheesygrin:
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Re: Barton: Nugget or Not? 

Post#12 » by The Rebel » Sat Apr 14, 2018 1:52 pm

youngthegiant wrote:I say yes. Will Barton was constantly filling different roles for this team. Denver fans need to relax, yes he takes some bad shots. But Barton is the real deal and people always overlook him. He was averaging 16,4 and 5 on 12 shots a game.Shooting 45% from the field and 37% from 3. Denver's best lineup was when Barton started at sf with the other guys(Murray, Harris, Millsap, Jokic). Those 5 guys only saw 65 minutes together the entire season. They posted a 124 offensive rating and 92 defensive rating in those minutes.(32.7 Net Rating) Barton is a keeper and should be the starting small forward next season. With that said, Denver needs to pay him around 14 million and look to move some salary right after. While also looking to add some defense on the wing(my guy Troy brown Jr. at #14). Mason Plumlee, Faried, Arthur, Chandler don't bring anything close to what Barton has brought to this team. Barton is that extra scorer in the starting lineup and I'm frankly excited to see those 5 guys on the court together full time.


While it is true that lineup produced very well in limited minutes, was Barton the cause or the beneficiary? With 414 minutes played together our best 4 man lineup was Murray/ Harris/ Millsap/ Jokic and a +12 net rating, and we all know that Chandler was not helping the minutes he was with them. Adding Chandler to that lineup for 245 minutes of game time dropped that lineup to a +8.9 so Chandler was obviously a big drag on that lineup which plays heavily into the final stats. If you replace Harris with Barton in the 5 man starting lineup it was actually only a 8.7 rating so that tells me that Barton wasn't necessarily the catalyst to the improvement in the starting lineup, but that Chandler was the hindrance. So to me Barton was a help but how much of a help compared to what someone like Craig could bring not to mention an actual starting level SF?

Last summer there were 14 teams with raw cap space to sign someone, this year there are only about 6 teams with that kind of cap space. IT took a 1st to move Jamal Crawford's 1 yr $11 million deal, 2 1st round picks to move the 2 year contract of Carroll, to move Mozgov and save 2 years his deal it cost the Lakers a very good prospect and they got back an expiring and late 1st round pick. That is with considerably more cap space available last year than this year. This year to move FAried's expiring deal into raw cap space I would not be surprised if it cost at least 2 picks, and that may not even happen. So the idea of signing Barton and then trying to create cap space is far from a given and I woul say it is even unlikely at this point.

Now if you can find someone willing to give cap space do you consider the 14th overall pick, one of the 2nds, and an expiring contract of say Faried worth Barton? That is likely the minimum it would cost.

I will say that I think the expiring deals of faried and Arthur could actually get us a starting level SF and/or a good backup PG with incentive coming this way as teams are going to be trying to free up money from the deals they signed in 2016 a year early.
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Re: Barton: Nugget or Not? 

Post#13 » by MidMountain » Sat Apr 14, 2018 3:55 pm

Barton is great 6th man and we will miss him if he leaves. I just don't see how we re-sign him though. He thinks he's a starter and wants starter money. He turned down a 4yr/$42 mil extension last fall.
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Re: Barton: Nugget or Not? 

Post#14 » by U hova » Sat Apr 14, 2018 4:26 pm

Carmelo Anthony is a great SF and we will miss him if he leaves.
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Re: Barton: Nugget or Not? 

Post#15 » by torotoe » Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:48 pm

Nuggets and Barton are in a very awkward spot. I think Barton is a good player and I like the idea of bringing him back, but there are issues.

They offered him that 4 year extension which is more than he will likely be offered in this tight market. Barton is going to be offered mle money in the open market. Nuggets are going to piss him off if they lower their offer compared to the extension. They might have to go after another wing because I see Barton wanting 11m from the nuggets.
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Re: Barton: Nugget or Not? 

Post#16 » by Powder Blue » Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:13 pm

Doubt the Nuggets go into the tax for Barton, Chandler and probably Faried have to go to make space for Barton. The MF'in Plumlee deal is also a factor, If I'm Barton there's no way I'd take less than what Plumlee got from the Nuggets unless it's a 4-5 year deal.
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Re: Barton: Nugget or Not? 

Post#17 » by DaFan334 » Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:11 am

The Rebel wrote:
youngthegiant wrote:I say yes. Will Barton was constantly filling different roles for this team. Denver fans need to relax, yes he takes some bad shots. But Barton is the real deal and people always overlook him. He was averaging 16,4 and 5 on 12 shots a game.Shooting 45% from the field and 37% from 3. Denver's best lineup was when Barton started at sf with the other guys(Murray, Harris, Millsap, Jokic). Those 5 guys only saw 65 minutes together the entire season. They posted a 124 offensive rating and 92 defensive rating in those minutes.(32.7 Net Rating) Barton is a keeper and should be the starting small forward next season. With that said, Denver needs to pay him around 14 million and look to move some salary right after. While also looking to add some defense on the wing(my guy Troy brown Jr. at #14). Mason Plumlee, Faried, Arthur, Chandler don't bring anything close to what Barton has brought to this team. Barton is that extra scorer in the starting lineup and I'm frankly excited to see those 5 guys on the court together full time.


While it is true that lineup produced very well in limited minutes, was Barton the cause or the beneficiary? With 414 minutes played together our best 4 man lineup was Murray/ Harris/ Millsap/ Jokic and a +12 net rating, and we all know that Chandler was not helping the minutes he was with them. Adding Chandler to that lineup for 245 minutes of game time dropped that lineup to a +8.9 so Chandler was obviously a big drag on that lineup which plays heavily into the final stats. If you replace Harris with Barton in the 5 man starting lineup it was actually only a 8.7 rating so that tells me that Barton wasn't necessarily the catalyst to the improvement in the starting lineup, but that Chandler was the hindrance. So to me Barton was a help but how much of a help compared to what someone like Craig could bring not to mention an actual starting level SF?

Last summer there were 14 teams with raw cap space to sign someone, this year there are only about 6 teams with that kind of cap space. IT took a 1st to move Jamal Crawford's 1 yr $11 million deal, 2 1st round picks to move the 2 year contract of Carroll, to move Mozgov and save 2 years his deal it cost the Lakers a very good prospect and they got back an expiring and late 1st round pick. That is with considerably more cap space available last year than this year. This year to move FAried's expiring deal into raw cap space I would not be surprised if it cost at least 2 picks, and that may not even happen. So the idea of signing Barton and then trying to create cap space is far from a given and I woul say it is even unlikely at this point.

Now if you can find someone willing to give cap space do you consider the 14th overall pick, one of the 2nds, and an expiring contract of say Faried worth Barton? That is likely the minimum it would cost.

I will say that I think the expiring deals of faried and Arthur could actually get us a starting level SF and/or a good backup PG with incentive coming this way as teams are going to be trying to free up money from the deals they signed in 2016 a year early.



I heard those stats that youngthegiant gave about Barton on the radio from Scott Hastings and it made me rethink not bringing Barton back and also made me question why Barton didn't get more playing time over Chandler, especially in the last game against the Wolves when Harris sat all of overtime. A lineup with Plumlee instead of Milsap was second on Net Rating for lineups with over 50 minutes as well having logged only 87minutes together. This was a good counterpoint by Rebel but I still think its worth looking into trying to bring Barton back to fill that role.

This market might help us and might hurt us. It could lower Barton's value if people aren't willing to offer anything over the MLE for him. It could however hurt us if Wilson Chandler decides that he is better off staying here and not testing free agency which would make money even tighter if Faried or Arthur can't be moved for a decent price. I wonder if or how much the team would be willing to pay in Luxury tax in order to keep the team together. After next year, Faried, Arthur, and possibly Milsap coming off the books does create quite a bit of relief and help us get back below the tax.
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Re: Barton: Nugget or Not? 

Post#18 » by U hova » Wed Apr 18, 2018 5:44 pm

We don't actually need Barton. If we had a real coach that could hold players accountable and made proper lineup adjustments, I may have wanted Barton back with a more defined role, but Barton as he stands is asked to do-it-all by Malone and produces very little consistency in the results. We are using a screwdriver as a swissarmyknife. Add to it - we are not a team that should be winning or losing because of Barton. He is a luxury that saves us 2 or 3 games a season by dropping a 30 pounder on poor defenses, but does he really help against the teams better teams in the league?

We aren't losing out on a SF. We'd be losing out on a guard is our biggest hole on defense statistically. We skipped practices and didn't play Craig since we couldn't open up a roster spot and didn't want to lose him once his 2-way expired. That roster spot is now open.
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Re: Barton: Nugget or Not? 

Post#19 » by TunaFish » Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:06 pm

Tough call on Barton. This is again all about contract. Few teams have cap space and Denver will have some room to sign him if he doesn't doesn't get a "big" offer (that I can't see). He has been a scoring spark in GHarris' absence.

I think he is priced as a good sixth man and those guys do command decent contracts, sometimes as much as starters. At a minimum we are looking at something above 12 million a year probably at or about 15. He may get that much or more elsewhere. Can the Nuggets afford that with Jokic's deal on the horizon?

The other issue is that if you are going to pay that kind of money to have a good to great sixth man, you have to factor in what other sixth man candidates are also available. If you are the Nuggets and going to salary slot and build a team with 3 max contracts, where do you price a top sixth man?

I have always thought Barton was out the door but he has played well enough to be considered.
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Re: Barton: Nugget or Not? 

Post#20 » by NuggetsWY » Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:15 pm

TunaFish wrote:Tough call on Barton. This is again all about contract. Few teams have cap space and Denver will have some room to sign him if he doesn't doesn't get a "big" offer (that I can't see). He has been a scoring spark in GHarris' absence.

I think he is priced as a good sixth man and those guys do command decent contracts, sometimes as much as starters. At a minimum we are looking at something above 12 million a year probably at or about 15. He may get that much or more elsewhere. Can the Nuggets afford that with Jokic's deal on the horizon?

The other issue is that if you are going to pay that kind of money to have a good to great sixth man, you have to factor in what other sixth man candidates are also available. If you are the Nuggets and going to salary slot and build a team with 3 max contracts, where do you price a top sixth man?

I have always thought Barton was out the door but he has played well enough to be considered.

Yeah, he would be a nice fit if Malone stopped using him as a PG and defensive stopper. He's a great scorer off the bench IMO. But like you say, can they afford him? Probably not unless Faried or Arthur or Chandler or Plumlee are gone without salary coming back (or not much). I do think you under-estimate what other teams have. It looks to me like more than half the teams in the NBA will be under the cap - assuming they don't re-sign their free agents. So if someone wants him, they might be able to make a good offer. Better than what we offered last year? I just don't know. I would think so, but the question is; how much better?

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