Trey Lyles

[skywalker33]

I'd say the same thing if he were any nationality. Lyles is one of the Nuggets best players (he's averaging 20 pts in the last 6 games or something) and his numbers since he has been playing real minutes are better than Millsap's earlier in the season. Why waste 30 million on an aging vet when he has trade value and you can fill up the hole at SF with a young player? All that happens by keeping Millsap is 1) hurts Lyles development and 2) Millsap loses trade value as he ages or potentially gets injured and the opportunity to upgrade the SF is wasted. Millsap was a stop gap move, I really doubt that Millsap is part of the owner's long term plan (that's why he only has a 2 year deal with a team option). Also, Faried is a decent backup so it solves three problems at once.

And THIS is why I call it a bias. WHEN HEALTHY, Millsap IS a better player. He brings a better well-rounded game than Lyles, provides leadership and is more of a go-to player than Lyles. His defense is what we pay him $30M along with grit and nasty, something I hope Lyles to pick up on..Will Lyles get there, I'd bet on it. Will Lyles eventually take over for Millsap, I can see that too, probably after the 2019 season when Trey turn 24yo. Right now he's getting a chance to build chemistry with Jokic, prove his value, gain confidence without a lot of pressure. I WOULD like to see him in the starting lineup while Millsap is out, but then I AM smarter than Malone.......no need to rush him, we're not competing for a title yet, that should come in 2-3 years when our young talent is approaching it prime !!!

Since December
Lyles 26.12 mp 16 pts 6.9 reb 1.3 ast 50.30 3p% 55.20 fg% 66.10 TS% 10.7 FGA 127 ORTG 108 DRTG

Lyles Season 20.2 PER 2.5 WS .05 VORP

Defense

Opponents shoots 8.0% less than average when guarded by Lyles (since December)

http://stats.nba.com/player/1626168/defense-dash/?Season=2017-18&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&DateTo=01%2F10%2F2018&DateFrom=12%2F01%2F2017

Milsap 29.7 mp 15.3 pts 6.2 reb 3.0 ast 34.50 3p% 44.60 fg% 53.10 TS% 12.60 FGA 107 ORTG 106 DRTG 1.1 WS .04 VORP 17.5 PER

Defense

Opponents shoots 6.3% less than average when guarded by Millsap

http://stats.nba.com/player/200794/defense-dash/
Lyles is better in almost every single offensive/defensive category with the exception of Asts/DRTG and he has a better PER/VORP/WS. There is no way Millsap should be playing in front of Lyles. If Lyles started the season and played the way he had the whole year he'd be an allstar and possibly your best statistical player.

You're entitled to your opinion, but in that time frame, Lyles was still playing against most 2nd stringers coming off the bench. He definitely SHOULD be better than when Millsap was playing agains starter.

[TooBad]

And THIS is why I call it a bias. WHEN HEALTHY, Millsap IS a better player. He brings a better well-rounded game than Lyles, provides leadership and is more of a go-to player than Lyles. His defense is what we pay him $30M along with grit and nasty, something I hope Lyles to pick up on..Will Lyles get there, I'd bet on it. Will Lyles eventually take over for Millsap, I can see that too, probably after the 2019 season when Trey turn 24yo. Right now he's getting a chance to build chemistry with Jokic, prove his value, gain confidence without a lot of pressure. I WOULD like to see him in the starting lineup while Millsap is out, but then I AM smarter than Malone.......no need to rush him, we're not competing for a title yet, that should come in 2-3 years when our young talent is approaching it prime !!!

Since December
Lyles 26.12 mp 16 pts 6.9 reb 1.3 ast 50.30 3p% 55.20 fg% 66.10 TS% 10.7 FGA 127 ORTG 108 DRTG

Lyles Season 20.2 PER 2.5 WS .05 VORP

Defense

Opponents shoots 8.0% less than average when guarded by Lyles (since December)

http://stats.nba.com/player/1626168/defense-dash/?Season=2017-18&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&DateTo=01%2F10%2F2018&DateFrom=12%2F01%2F2017

Milsap 29.7 mp 15.3 pts 6.2 reb 3.0 ast 34.50 3p% 44.60 fg% 53.10 TS% 12.60 FGA 107 ORTG 106 DRTG 1.1 WS .04 VORP 17.5 PER

Defense

Opponents shoots 6.3% less than average when guarded by Millsap

http://stats.nba.com/player/200794/defense-dash/
Lyles is better in almost every single offensive/defensive category with the exception of Asts/DRTG and he has a better PER/VORP/WS. There is no way Millsap should be playing in front of Lyles. If Lyles started the season and played the way he had the whole year he'd be an allstar and possibly your best statistical player.

You're entitled to your opinion, but in that time frame, Lyles was still playing against most 2nd stringers coming off the bench. He definitely SHOULD be better than when Millsap was playing agains starter.

Lyles finishes every game from what i've seen so he is doing this against starters.

[skywalker33]

Since December
Lyles 26.12 mp 16 pts 6.9 reb 1.3 ast 50.30 3p% 55.20 fg% 66.10 TS% 10.7 FGA 127 ORTG 108 DRTG

Lyles Season 20.2 PER 2.5 WS .05 VORP

Defense

Opponents shoots 8.0% less than average when guarded by Lyles (since December)

http://stats.nba.com/player/1626168/defense-dash/?Season=2017-18&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&DateTo=01%2F10%2F2018&DateFrom=12%2F01%2F2017

Milsap 29.7 mp 15.3 pts 6.2 reb 3.0 ast 34.50 3p% 44.60 fg% 53.10 TS% 12.60 FGA 107 ORTG 106 DRTG 1.1 WS .04 VORP 17.5 PER

Defense

Opponents shoots 6.3% less than average when guarded by Millsap

http://stats.nba.com/player/200794/defense-dash/
Lyles is better in almost every single offensive/defensive category with the exception of Asts/DRTG and he has a better PER/VORP/WS. There is no way Millsap should be playing in front of Lyles. If Lyles started the season and played the way he had the whole year he'd be an allstar and possibly your best statistical player.

You're entitled to your opinion, but in that time frame, Lyles was still playing against most 2nd stringers coming off the bench. He definitely SHOULD be better than when Millsap was playing agains starter.

Lyles finishes every game from what i've seen so he is doing this against starters.

You can dream all you want but Lyles isn't even starting while Millsap is hurt, what makes you think it would happen when he gets back ?? Don't get me wrong, I like Lyles but I see what kind of coach Malone is, I've been watching this team for over 35 years. It really is pretty easy to say what I did with conviction. I'm just trying to be real here, I'm not the one trying to fulfill my unrealistic wishes.

[horusgrant]

I'm from his hometown, Saskatoon & know his mom & family very well for since I was 13. His father T came to his step brothers birthday party this summer he's a development coach, works with Tyus Jones & some other players I can't remember who else he said.

Anyways, I'm glad that he's finally getting his chance. Being traded for Mitchell & Mitchell's performance has lit a fire in him, it worked out in the end (still probably a bad trade for Denver).

I don't like Malone, I feel with how consistant Trey is playing when Millsap gets back they need to keep up the minutes or theyre crazy. In all honesty I wish they would just trade Millsap & his huge contract because Trey is putting up those numbers still on Rookie contract.

[Lala870]

I'm from his hometown, Saskatoon & know his mom & family very well for since I was 13. His father T came to his step brothers birthday party this summer he's a development coach, works with Tyus Jones & some other players I can't remember who else he said.

Anyways, I'm glad that he's finally getting his chance. Being traded for Mitchell & Mitchell's performance has lit a fire in him, it worked out in the end (still probably a bad trade for Denver).

I don't like Malone, I feel with how consistant Trey is playing when Millsap gets back they need to keep up the minutes or theyre crazy. In all honesty I wish they would just trade Millsap & his huge contract because Trey is putting up those numbers still on Rookie contract.

No knock on trey but donavon mitchell was the elixir the nuggets needed. I think hes a future perennial all star type player who is an alpha scoring the ball.

I agree with your take on millsapp.

[NuggetsWY]

I'm from his hometown, Saskatoon & know his mom & family very well for since I was 13. His father T came to his step brothers birthday party this summer he's a development coach, works with Tyus Jones & some other players I can't remember who else he said.

Anyways, I'm glad that he's finally getting his chance. Being traded for Mitchell & Mitchell's performance has lit a fire in him, it worked out in the end (still probably a bad trade for Denver).

I don't like Malone, I feel with how consistant Trey is playing when Millsap gets back they need to keep up the minutes or theyre crazy. In all honesty I wish they would just trade Millsap & his huge contract because Trey is putting up those numbers still on Rookie contract.

No knock on trey but donavon mitchell was the elixir the nuggets needed. I think hes a future perennial all star type player who is an alpha scoring the ball.

I agree with your take on millsapp.

Every draft is a crap shoot and if anyone had a clue Mitchell would be what he is; he wouldn't have been available that late.

[U hova]

No knock on trey but donavon mitchell was the elixir the nuggets needed. I think hes a future perennial all star type player who is an alpha scoring the ball.

I agree with your take on millsapp.

Yea and every team can use Kawhi Leonard and Klay Thompson.
A lot of us criticized the trade on draft night because it didn't lead to the guy the Nuggets FO wanted and Trey Lyles was a bust back then, but given how Trey Lyles turned out I can't say I'm too unhappy.

[skywalker33]

I'm from his hometown, Saskatoon & know his mom & family very well for since I was 13. His father T came to his step brothers birthday party this summer he's a development coach, works with Tyus Jones & some other players I can't remember who else he said.

Anyways, I'm glad that he's finally getting his chance. Being traded for Mitchell & Mitchell's performance has lit a fire in him, it worked out in the end (still probably a bad trade for Denver).

I don't like Malone, I feel with how consistant Trey is playing when Millsap gets back they need to keep up the minutes or theyre crazy. In all honesty I wish they would just trade Millsap & his huge contract because Trey is putting up those numbers still on Rookie contract.

No knock on trey but donavon mitchell was the elixir the nuggets needed. I think hes a future perennial all star type player who is an alpha scoring the ball.

I agree with your take on millsapp.

Without KNOWING what he'd look like in the NBA, who were you intending to put on the bench, Murray, Harris or draft a backup at #12 ??? Hindsight is always 20/20, makes you look like someone who knows something yet we all realize you don't.

[NuggetsWY]

What happens with Lyles after Millsap comes back? SF minutes? (Reducing Barton's minutes? Seems unlikely.) PF backup minutes? Around 15-20 mpg? (Reducing Plumlee minutes?) Or is he just going to lose minutes?

[skywalker33]

What happens with Lyles after Millsap comes back? SF minutes? (Reducing Barton's minutes? Seems unlikely.) PF backup minutes? Around 15-20 mpg? (Reducing Plumlee minutes?) Or is he just going to lose minutes?

Seems unlikely that Millsap automatically returns to his 30-35mins per game automatically, can see his starting out 18-24 per games which will leave 24-30mins available at the PF position. I assume Malone's stupidity will allow Plumlee some of those mins, I'd prefer Arthur's resurgence to alter that scenario but I'm not betting on it.

Lyles seems versatile enough to play some SF, love that about his game. Playing him at SF with his size can create mismatches much like Gallo did, but I rarely recall Gallo dominating like he should have. Also, if Lyles could play the SF position effectively, have to think they would've already tried to cultivate that development considering our deficient there.

[NuggetsWY]

Last 10 games :: 23 minutes with 13 pts per game & 7 rebounds per game plus 1 block per game

Only Millsap & Plumlee average over one block per game

[skywalker33]

So, what's Lyles ceiling as far as production. Can he put up 20/10 for a season given a starting position ? His PER36 right now projects him at 19/9

[NuggetsWY]

So, what's Lyles ceiling as far as production. Can he put up 20/10 for a season given a starting position ? His PER36 right now projects him at 19/9

Well, I don't know. I would have said, "No" even a month or so ago. But now I'm not so sure. When we consider he's probably going to be the 4th option in a couple of years ... Can Jokic & Harris & Murray all average 20 pts? Can Lyles do the same? Wow! If he plays more SF than PF, how does that affect this? (Thinking about playing next to Millsap.) Lots of questions with him and his fit.

[MidMountain]

I don't see Lyles as a SF at all. He may see some time alongside Milsap, but it would be Milsap at the 5 and Lyles at the 4.

[NuggetsWY]

I don't see Lyles as a SF at all. He may see some time alongside Milsap, but it would be Milsap at the 5 and Lyles at the 4.

With Malone as the coach? Malone; the man who plays Plumlee at center with Jokic at PF? The man who likes Barton at SF and at PG? Surely you meant to put that in green font.

[skywalker33]

I don't see Lyles as a SF at all. He may see some time alongside Milsap, but it would be Milsap at the 5 and Lyles at the 4.

With Malone as the coach? Malone; the man who plays Plumlee at center with Jokic at PF? The man who likes Barton at SF and at PG? Surely you meant to put that in green font.

Never say never but Lyles mins should be mostly between the stretch 4 and small-ball 5 IMO. Hopefully we'll get a good 3 in this year's draft and not have to worry about filling mins there.

[U hova]

I don't think you can quantify Lyles's contribution with numbers. I don't think you can do that with anyone on this team really - on another team Harris and Murray could both be 23 ppg scorers, but because of the way our ideal offense works I don't think they will ever average that here.

I think Lyles is more or less going to be Gallinari without the illusion that he can play as a SF. If you breakdown their abilities, both are versatile scorers that can run the PnR as the ball-handler and screener, both are good shooters, both can punish switches with their post-play... oh and apparently they're both 6'10. There's obvious difference in play-styles - one is an excessive flopper, had a zealous confidence in his scoring ability, like to pull-up from a step inside the 3pt line, etc, but generally speaking I think you can expect the same level of offensive contribution.

[NuggetsWY]

In today's NBA there are small forwards that weigh 250 pounds and there are small forwards that are nearly seven feet tall. Lyles seems a likely candidate to play SF today (Hernangomez also).

On the other hand, many (maybe most) teams play small-ball with centers that are around 6'9" or 6'10". Seems Lyles could easily matchup against many of those lineups.

The NBA is now a league of players that can play multiple positions. I'd say Lyles is not ideal for center or PF or SF but he could play all three adequately. He's one of our most versatile players.

[skywalker33]

At least the Nuggets bloggers aren't in hibernation. Here's an analysis on the potential of Trey Lyles, Seems simple yet effective

https://www.denverstiffs.com/2018/5/9/17335632/player-evaluation-trey-lyles-be-more-than-just-a-guy