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Denver Drafts Michael Porter Jr.

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Re: Denver Drafts Michael Porter Jr. 

Post#41 » by kuclas » Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:26 am

skywalker33 wrote:
The Rebel wrote:I don't know that any surgery sounds promising, but that doesn't change the risk, especially since it was known to be a possibility when we drafted him.


At this stage seems like it would be a cleanup but no details, that's just my speculation. Still have no qualms about having him miss the entire year as long as he's good for 2019-2020


Redshirt him. Safest way to go. No need to rush. Harry Giles was redshirted. Will see how he does. Ben Simmons redshirt and he probably wouldn’t have had the rookie season he had without redshirting. Same with Joel embiid (2 seasons out).
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Re: Denver Drafts Michael Porter Jr. 

Post#42 » by skywalker33 » Thu Jul 19, 2018 3:45 pm

Well, at least this wasn't another microdiscectomy surgery, but working on a herniated disc isn't the best news. Nuggets have yet to comment on his status but we're still two months away from TC, 3mo from the season...more time to heal/rehab.
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Re: Denver Drafts Michael Porter Jr. 

Post#43 » by THE J0KER » Thu Jul 19, 2018 6:18 pm

Update without update on our official site:
Michael Porter Jr. Medical Update
Posted: Jul 19, 2018

Michael Porter Jr. has undergone surgery of the lumbar spine at The Carrell Clinic in Dallas, Tex. The Procedure was performed by Dr. Andrew Dossett. There is no timetable for his return to basketball participation.
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Re: Denver Drafts Michael Porter Jr. 

Post#44 » by FNQ » Thu Jul 19, 2018 7:22 pm

skywalker33 wrote:Well, at least this wasn't another microdiscectomy surgery, but working on a herniated disc isn't the best news. Nuggets have yet to comment on his status but we're still two months away from TC, 3mo from the season...more time to heal/rehab.


Scar tissue removal/cleanup procedure.

Typically done to speed up the recovery timeline, because if it was an everyday joe, they'd just be recommending stretching and rehab to manually break down the scar tissue.

Like they did for me :cry:
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Re: Denver Drafts Michael Porter Jr. 

Post#45 » by THE J0KER » Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:22 pm

There is a thread on the General Board subforum about MPJ injury, and I find the exclusive interview with Porter's surgeon which makes his back surgeries, so I will share it here too. The article is very detailed (updated today, so yesterday 2nd surgery is also explained) and is "must read" for everyone here on Nuggets forum 8-)

Michael Porter Jr.’s back injury, explained by a surgeon and a jelly doughnut

Spoiler:
Here’s everything you need to know about Porter’s injury that caused him to slide in the NBA Draft.
By Matt Ellentuck@mellentuck Updated Jul 19, 2018, 2:40pm EDT

Michael Porter Jr., one of the nation’s best NBA prospects, suffered a back injury in the opening two minutes of his college basketball season that cost him all but two games, and required surgery he hasn't yet fully recovered from. Less than a week before the draft, he even canceled a workout in front of lottery teams because of muscle spasms so bad he couldn‘t leave bed, before deeming it back on.

In the hours before the draft, ESPN’s Jonathan Givony reported that Porter was sliding due to concerns about his back and hip. Sure enough, Porter nearly slid all the way out of the lottery, despite being in contention to go No. 2 overall. The Denver Nuggets finally took him with the No. 14 pick.

What’s wrong with the spine of one of the NBA’s most promising teens? And is it bad enough that he should have slid this far?

In November, Porter had a minimally invasive back surgery called an L3-L4 microdiscectomy to treat herniated disks in his back. The discomfort was caused by small tears in the outer layers of the intervertebral disks that allowed important lubricating material to leak out. Yahoo’s Shams Charania reported that he had a second surgery of his lumbar spine in mid-July.

“One analogy we use a lot is when you poke a hole a jelly doughnut,” Dr. Charla Fischer, a spine surgeon at NYU Langone Health, told SB Nation. “When you squeeze the jelly is gonna come out. If you don’t poke a hole, it’s going to be contained.”

Porter’s talent may have his injury in the spotlight, but herniated disks are not that unusual.

“That process of those small tears happens to everyone over time,“ Fischer says. “Genetics plays a small role, but over time everyone’s disks deflate like a tire getting worn down. In some athletes, if stress is being transferred to an area ... it’s a repetitive stress injury. Over and over, jumping up to catch rebounds, you’re getting stress in one area. Then you get these micro tears and the nucleus pulposus (jelly) comes out.“

Can the prospect once thought to have a higher ceiling than expected top picks Deandre Ayton and Luka Doncic return to form? Will his back hold up over time, or is he destined to have career-long issues? When will Porter look better than he did at Mizzou?

Those questions still lie ahead of the 19-year-old, especially now that he’s slid in the draft.

Why did this happen to Porter?

Pinning down exactly what happened to Porter is difficult. He could be more susceptible to herniations because of his genetics, or maybe there was specific stress in that region of his back that started tears which caused the liquid to leak.

That could mean the specific motions of catching and coming down with rebounds, or possibly over-rotating his spine on passes. But the injury also could have been caused by life itself.

Fischer sees patients like you or I in for the same procedure Porter had. This injury isn’t reserved for athletes.

How’d Porter need surgery all of a sudden?

There wasn’t a single specific event that caused Porter’s injury to happen. It built up over time.

“Usually [patients] have this back pain that’s not severe, but there’s sort of a dull ache for a while,“ Fischer says. “And then it gets worse and worse and worse as those micro tears build up and then the [jelly] makes it’s way out, and that’s painful.

“Then it herniates into the canal and all of a sudden the back pain isn’t that bad and you have severe leg pain or numbness or tingling or weakness in the leg.”

That’s what was likely happening when Porter checked out of his first Mizzou game with a “tweaked hip.”

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Porter Jr.’s surgery wasn’t as terrifying as it’s made out to be

There’s a stigma around back injuries in athletes, and while it’s an extremely dangerous part of the body to hurt, Porter’s surgery was minimally invasive.

“This is an outpatient surgery,” Fischer says, ”like if someone had a knee scope. So you’re only in the hospital for the day of the surgery and then you go home.”

Microdiscectomy surgeries typically last an hour, and patients leave the hospital the same day they walk in. Fischer says patients can walk around, eat, and use the bathroom immediately after waking up.

Porter wasn’t bed-ridden.

How was Porter‘s surgery performed?

“We make a small incision in the back,” Fischer says, ”and we have to get to the disk herniation so we have to go through some muscle of the back ... we have to go through some bone. So a small amount of bone we need to make a hole in in the back part of the spine. Then we protect all of the nerve roots, we get down to where the herniation is, remove all the material and that’s it.

“We’re only taking the part that has come out, we’re not going into the disk and taking everything out. Only the jelly that’s squirted out of the doughnut we take. We leave the rest of the jelly in.

“This is one of the least extensive surgeries you can have in the spine, it’s just still a spine surgery.”

How do patients typically feel after this surgery?

Better! Way better almost instantly.

“Most patients tell me they feel at least 50 to 80 percent better immediately after the surgery,“ Fischer says. “That’s because the jelly that comes out of the doughnut causes a huge inflammatory response in the area. It’s not just pushing on the nerve root, but it’s causing all these inflammatory factors to come in the area and cause an almost internal bruise. Once you remove that, all those factors go away and you feel a lot better.“

So why did Porter look so bad when he returned at Mizzou?

There have been enough lumbar spine injuries in the NBA for a team of doctors to conduct a specific report on it. This Sports Health study by Shobhit V. Minhas, MD, Benjamin S. Kester, MD, and Wellington K. Hsu, MD, takes a look at the recovery times for NBA players who’ve had the same type of surgery as Porter.

“There’s re-herniation rates of 10-to-12 percent over the next 5-to-10 years... If he had that again, he’d elect to do another surgery.”
Using PER as a baseline, the study found that a patient won’t return to his typical level of play until his second season following surgery.

Porter returned to play four months after surgery, which Fischer said sounded about right for someone of his age and athletic abilities. But even if he’s fit enough to play, history says he’s still not going to be delivering peak performance immediately. It probably won’t be until his second NBA season that we see Porter at full strength.

But Porter nearly canceled workouts with back spasms that kept him in bed. Isn’t that bad?

“It sounds normal,“ Fischer says. “It seems like he had some leg muscle weakness from the disc herniation and has had to work on building strength back.“

Whichever team drafts Porter will have to stay patient.

What are his chances for re-injury?

This is the dangerous part in drafting Porter. He will heal from back surgery, and history says he should bounce back to full strength in two years, but he’s at risk for the same injury. NBA teams were sufficiently worried.

"The area where the jelly has come through the doughnut ... that heals over, but not with the same material you were born with,” Fischer explains. ”It fills in with fibrous tissue and scar tissue and it’s similar but not exactly the same. So that area is an area of weakness.

“There’s re-herniation rates of 10-to-12 percent over the next 5-to-10 years. I tell patients that all the time because I want them to know that if the symptoms come back we can start from square one ... Elite athletes need to get back to playing sports. If he had that again, he’d elect to do another surgery.”

Would a second surgery spell doom for Porter’s career?

Nope. It would not.

“It doesn’t affect his return to play,” Fischer says. ”It doesn’t affect his physical therapy, it doesn’t affect his chance of neurologic problems like weakness or numbness or tingling. Some patients say it hurts a little more because we’re going through scar tissue and that’s about it.“

So how worried should you be if your team drafts Michael Porter Jr.?

"These teams have an in-house spine surgeon or will have him evaluated by someone. He’ll be extensively evaluated before anyone decides if they want to draft him. He’s gone through the ringer, if he’s been picked that means he’s been picked by multiple spine surgeons and they agree his recurrence risk is low.”

Of course, that’s Fischer’s professional opinion, so please adjust that logic based on your team’s level of medical dysfunction.

“Whether or not he’s a higher risk, it’s hard to say. Other than being a weightlifter or bodybuilder or smoking, all these athletes are in peak shape. Out of someone who’s going to be a recurrent risk, he’s not doing anything that’s going to put him in a bad spot.

“Even if he didn’t look so good at the end of his current season, he could do well next year. He can definitely bounce back, and there’s enough NBA players who have this for there to have been a study just on NBA players with disk herniations. It’s not so rare that’s there’s only case reports in the literature. There’s a full study looking at 61 NBA players. It’s not a totally rare unheard of thing for NBA players to have microdiscectomies.“

Nobody wanted to be feared out of passing on a player with star potential, yet that appears to have been the case with Porter.
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Re: Denver Drafts Michael Porter Jr. 

Post#46 » by skywalker33 » Sat Jul 21, 2018 4:52 am

With the talent on this team, I am betting we play the safe game and redshirt MPJ. Betting he;ll miss most of TC and he'll be behind with his strength and conditioning. At that point it'd be better to just have training staff add to his core and prepare him for 2019 Summer League
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Exactly as I've been saying all along !!
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Re: Denver Drafts Michael Porter Jr. 

Post#47 » by DaFan334 » Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:19 pm

https://www.kansascity.com/sports/college/sec/university-of-missouri/article215175940.html

His dad seems to think he might be ready to go by the start of the season. That would be pretty crazy but I am sure the Nuggets will be cautious not to bring him back too soon.
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Re: Denver Drafts Michael Porter Jr. 

Post#48 » by THE J0KER » Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:18 pm

With such talented young player, better to show "too much" caution, than risk anything. If everything in his recovery goes well, we can put him in the roster but not before mid-February all-star break, and only if Juancho has another disappointing season or Barton receive injury. Redshirt means no competitive games, but at the same times it also means the same practice work with teammates and coaching staff as other pros, so the player can really improve well during such season. Look at Embiid or Simmons first months as rookies after being redshirt previous season. They literally played like experienced players since their very first NBA game. MPJ is our great 2020+ gambling project, which can payoff already in 2019-20... so why to push things already in 2018?
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Re: Denver Drafts Michael Porter Jr. 

Post#49 » by skywalker33 » Sat Jul 21, 2018 9:38 pm

Since we're more likely than not to have traded our 2019 1st, why not look at it as if Vanderbilt is our 2018 1st and MPJ is our 2019 1st :lol: And with Lydon we should be used to not having a 1st :oops:
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Exactly as I've been saying all along !!
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Re: Denver Drafts Michael Porter Jr. 

Post#50 » by THE J0KER » Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:03 pm

According to ESPN writer Chris Forsberg, Michael Porter Jr. says he's pain-free after second back surgery

Maybe we 2018-19 redshirted MPJ too early? Porter himself even believe he can start normally this season in October because he feels excited finally being pain-free. I really doubt we will see him in any kind of the action in October or November, but if with MPJ recovering process everything really going perfect, maybe after Nikola Jokic 2016 December and Jamal Murray 2017 December, Nuggets are going to have another "December Miracle"?!!?

:nod: :nod: :nod: :rock:
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Re: Denver Drafts Michael Porter Jr. 

Post#51 » by skywalker33 » Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:52 pm

MPJ joining this squad THIS season makes this look much more promising. I'll stick with my 52 game win prediction !!
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Exactly as I've been saying all along !!
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Re: Denver Drafts Michael Porter Jr. 

Post#52 » by THE J0KER » Mon Aug 13, 2018 1:42 am

Annual 2018 NBA Rookie Photo Shoot: MPJ shows who is shooting boss of his draft class
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Re: Denver Drafts Michael Porter Jr. 

Post#53 » by skywalker33 » Mon Aug 13, 2018 1:47 am

THE J0KER wrote:Annual 2018 NBA Rookie Photo Shoot: MPJ shows who is shooting boss of his draft class


Young is a really good shooter, but MPJ is hitting "nuthin' but NET" !!!
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Exactly as I've been saying all along !!
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Re: Denver Drafts Michael Porter Jr. 

Post#54 » by nayyyyyyyyo09 » Tue Aug 14, 2018 12:08 pm

I don’t believe we should redshirt MPJ, with all the reports we’ve heard I don’t believe him resting the entire season would do us or him any good. He’s had the second surgery and is healing adequately. I believe if there is still an underlying issue with his back, rest wouldn’t do him any good but just keep us from knowing for a longer period of time. If the surgeons and trainers believe he’s fine, and he’s healed from his second surgery, I have no qualms with him coming back as early as the first week of the season. With the surgery done already, and healed, why keep him out in an attempt to heal him further when that wouldn’t fix the issue in his back if he does in fact still have one. Hopefully that makes sense on paper because in my head it makes plenty of sense lmao.
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Re: Denver Drafts Michael Porter Jr. 

Post#55 » by skywalker33 » Tue Aug 14, 2018 5:08 pm

SlayOrNay wrote:I don’t believe we should redshirt MPJ, with all the reports we’ve heard I don’t believe him resting the entire season would do us or him any good. He’s had the second surgery and is healing adequately. I believe if there is still an underlying issue with his back, rest wouldn’t do him any good but just keep us from knowing for a longer period of time. If the surgeons and trainers believe he’s fine, and he’s healed from his second surgery, I have no qualms with him coming back as early as the first week of the season. With the surgery done already, and healed, why keep him out in an attempt to heal him further when that wouldn’t fix the issue in his back if he does in fact still have one. Hopefully that makes sense on paper because in my head it makes plenty of sense lmao.


While he may get medical clearance, he'll still need to strengthen his core, get into basketball shape and learn the feel/speed of NBA basketball. The last time he played organized basketball he was going against high schoolers and young college guys, he's about to be going up against grown men, quite a different story. I'd rather have him around for the long-haul than enjoy a little instant gratification and shorten his career. Give him to JAN to get him into the rotation and use it as a catalyst for that brutal end-of-the-year schedule.
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Exactly as I've been saying all along !!
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Re: Denver Drafts Michael Porter Jr. 

Post#56 » by nayyyyyyyyo09 » Tue Aug 14, 2018 5:25 pm

skywalker33 wrote:
SlayOrNay wrote:I don’t believe we should redshirt MPJ, with all the reports we’ve heard I don’t believe him resting the entire season would do us or him any good. He’s had the second surgery and is healing adequately. I believe if there is still an underlying issue with his back, rest wouldn’t do him any good but just keep us from knowing for a longer period of time. If the surgeons and trainers believe he’s fine, and he’s healed from his second surgery, I have no qualms with him coming back as early as the first week of the season. With the surgery done already, and healed, why keep him out in an attempt to heal him further when that wouldn’t fix the issue in his back if he does in fact still have one. Hopefully that makes sense on paper because in my head it makes plenty of sense lmao.


While he may get medical clearance, he'll still need to strengthen his core, get into basketball shape and learn the feel/speed of NBA basketball. The last time he played organized basketball he was going against high schoolers and young college guys, he's about to be going up against grown men, quite a different story. I'd rather have him around for the long-haul than enjoy a little instant gratification and shorten his career. Give him to JAN to get him into the rotation and use it as a catalyst for that brutal end-of-the-year schedule.


I would almost agree with you but by December we should have our rotations down, adding him could more likely do harm than good to the chemistry of this team. I’m not saying start him and play him 30+ mpg from the get go, but around the beginning of November maybe start him off with 3-5 minutes a game. It would help him get a better feel for the game and wouldn’t put much stress on his body. And from there obviously see how his back responds and continue his core strengthening.
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Re: Denver Drafts Michael Porter Jr. 

Post#57 » by NuggetsWY » Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:36 pm

SlayOrNay wrote:
skywalker33 wrote:
SlayOrNay wrote:I don’t believe we should redshirt MPJ, with all the reports we’ve heard I don’t believe him resting the entire season would do us or him any good. He’s had the second surgery and is healing adequately. I believe if there is still an underlying issue with his back, rest wouldn’t do him any good but just keep us from knowing for a longer period of time. If the surgeons and trainers believe he’s fine, and he’s healed from his second surgery, I have no qualms with him coming back as early as the first week of the season. With the surgery done already, and healed, why keep him out in an attempt to heal him further when that wouldn’t fix the issue in his back if he does in fact still have one. Hopefully that makes sense on paper because in my head it makes plenty of sense lmao.

While he may get medical clearance, he'll still need to strengthen his core, get into basketball shape and learn the feel/speed of NBA basketball. The last time he played organized basketball he was going against high schoolers and young college guys, he's about to be going up against grown men, quite a different story. I'd rather have him around for the long-haul than enjoy a little instant gratification and shorten his career. Give him to JAN to get him into the rotation and use it as a catalyst for that brutal end-of-the-year schedule.

I would almost agree with you but by December we should have our rotations down, adding him could more likely do harm than good to the chemistry of this team. I’m not saying start him and play him 30+ mpg from the get go, but around the beginning of November maybe start him off with 3-5 minutes a game. It would help him get a better feel for the game and wouldn’t put much stress on his body. And from there obviously see how his back responds and continue his core strengthening.

Sure, Porter might miss out on this year, especially because this is a deep team - at least deep in youth if not proven talent; plus Malone is not known for playing young players. So with Barton at SF plus Craig and Hernangomez waiting to play; you are correct, Porter may not get much playing time this year.

But let's analyze, I am known for being a fan of playing youth and letting them learn on the court but Porter playing is a risk and frankly, we don't know how good he will be. Should we mess with the expected rotation? I'm with Sky on this and say, let's go cautious with Porter - just like they did with Beasley in his rookie year.

My focus has always been on seeing the Nuggets contend for a championship. Playing young players helps them develop but we have enough youth that's gaining experience that minimal Porter time this year, while he builds his strength and conditioning makes a lot of sense. It's easier for one young player to slide into a solid rotation. A little patience is called for now IMO.

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