Nurkic: "I don't see my future in Denver"

[U hova]

nah don't want a capped out division rival to fix up their holes.

Let Portland waddle in mediocrity.

[skywalker33]

nah don't want a capped out division rival to fix up their holes.

Let Portland waddle in mediocrity.

+100

[The Rebel]

Vonleh and 2017 CLE...

You'd be betting on Vonleh's potential and he's already been traded away from the team that drafted him, seems like a big risk there. As for the pick, it's #27, might as well be a 2nd

I'll pass.

and I get that, but I say better to take a flyer on Vonleh than to waste Nurkic - plus I like him too much to watch him waste away; send him somewhere we he'll be appreciated. As for Cleveland's pick, we might get lucky and it's #26 .

there is no way I trade Nurkic for **** vonley and the Cleveland pick, he can rot in the bench

[NuggetsWY]

You'd be betting on Vonleh's potential and he's already been traded away from the team that drafted him, seems like a big risk there. As for the pick, it's #27, might as well be a 2nd

I'll pass.

and I get that, but I say better to take a flyer on Vonleh than to waste Nurkic - plus I like him too much to watch him waste away; send him somewhere we he'll be appreciated. As for Cleveland's pick, we might get lucky and it's #26 .

there is no way I trade Nurkic for **** vonley and the Cleveland pick, he can rot in the bench

Everyone has a right to be wrong now and then. My only problem is, sometimes I can't tell if it's my turn.

[skywalker33]

I agree with The Rebel, I'm not appeasing the spoiled child. I'd sit him down and put it to him this way " If you continue to pout and give a crappy effort, we'll sit your ass on the bench until you hit RFA, no one will see what you can do and no one will offer you anything contract-wise. Your NBA career will dry up. Now play like you're capable of with a professional attitude, you'll increase your value to us as well as your new team, you'll be viewed as a professional, help us, we'll help you !!"

[NuggetsWY]

I agree with The Rebel, I'm not appeasing the spoiled child. I'd sit him down and put it to him this way " If you continue to pout and give a crappy effort, we'll sit your ass on the bench until you hit RFA, no one will see what you can do and no one will offer you anything contract-wise. Your NBA career will dry up. Now play like you're capable of with a professional attitude, you'll increase your value to us as well as your new team, you'll be viewed as a professional, help us, we'll help you !!"

I've often wished teams would take that approach. Unfortunately, I think the Denver Nuggets will never do that. It would take a seriously committed FO & GM to do that and Denver's biggest commitment is to the $$$ IMO.

[Patsfan1081]

Anyway, let myself get sidetracked. Came here to see what Denver fans were saying about Nurkic. Just like with Philly and Noel, I figure it's a longshot cause we're not likely to meet Denver's asking price. But, like cl2117, I also figure we'll put ourselves in the mix just in case bidding stays tepid for some reason, and just tip our caps and bow out when it gets too rich. Rozier, MEM 1st, Zizic is definitely too rich for me.

jesus. thats basically nothing in return for denver. maybe zizic ends up being as good as nurkic down the road. small chance he becomes a star or anything close to it. not implying nurkic will be a star either but what the hell will we do with 2 guys who wont play and a bad pick?

id hate to see what you think is a fair offer

Not sure how exactly that isn't a fair offer. A first that has declining protection, a prospect that is currently seeing decent minutes in his sophomore season, and one of the better prospects currently in Europe who's getting a ton of hype right now. Now it might not be the fit Denver fans want, that's perfectly understandable. Let me ask you what you believe Nurkic's value is then? How do you know the Memphis pick will be bad this far in advance and how can you know a 19 and 22 year old kid won't get minutes next season?

[Patsfan1081]

With Nurkic' still on his rookie contract and with RFA ahead, it's obvious we're not in a desperation mode many posters are anticipating/desiring. I do think we'll try to accommodate him but only if the offers is enticing to the Nuggets. These low-ball offers are just poster wet dreams IMO.

How is the MEM pick and a solid prospect in Rozier a low ball offer for a guy like Nurkic that is likely a back-up at best in a really good team, or a really low usage guy anyway even if he starts that doesnt fit your best player, neither is going to be all that valuable due to the current excess of quality bigs in the league?
Quality bigs are easily attainable at this point, Nurkic is good and I was on him way before nobody in the whole internet, there's proof about this, BUT, you can't just get around his issues offensively and the current value non-flexible players like him offer.

What exactly are his issues offensively?

21% turnover rate?

[Nuggets_Talk]

As a Blazers fan I'm certainly not going to tell you guys what you need nor am I going to try to convince you on a deal that's slanted in Portland's way( your team has got the better of us on more than one trade though so maybe we can even it up ).

I am probably in the minority of Blazers fans but I think Nurkic could be a good fit with Portland if he gets his head and motivation back into it. But of course Lillard and McCollum aren't in this conversation and I would like to hang onto our own first round pick for the 2017 draft. Anything else I'm open to.

Any opinions?

Um...what's left to offer?

[Nuggets_Talk]

Well for me, Rozier would be behind Mudiay, then Murray...so what value does a 3rd string PG have for us ??? At least we can select our own needs with the pick. I'm not sold on Danny Ainge's draft choices and Rozier hasn't proved a ton to me.

If we demanded Zizic be part of the deal, what do BOS fans see as fair deal on that front ?

I'd be all over the pure pick package of Memphis 2019, Min 2017 2nd and Heat 2020 2nd (Young can be salary filler).

I think if Denver demanded Zizic be part of the deal it'd likely either be straight up or no thanks. Contracts play a big part in it. Nurkic would need more money sooner and around the same time some of our core would be looking for raises, whereas Zizic has 4 years of being cheap. It seems like they're really high on Zizic as well so I just don't see that working.

I still think something with Rozier works with Jameer getting sent to a team like Memphis/Cleveland who could use a vet backup PG (maybe they kick a little extra in). Him the Memphis pick and some 2nds feels like better value from my perspective that just the pick package, plus it opens up 25 mins a night that can go to the kids rather than 34 year old Nelson. Even if you took Rozier on just to trade him this summer you'd probably get better value than Min 2017 2nd/MIA 2020 2nd.

Yeah, I don't think Zizic and a pick works. Zizic looks likely to be as good as Nurkic, and he'll be in the first year of his contract. I love Nurkic's upside but he'll want an extension next fall or will go into restricted free agency after that- same boat as Noel - which will lower his trade value if we need to flip him. If you wanted Zizic, we might need something extra back.

I could see Cleveland giving up a 1st to add Rozier to their bench, and we could flip that for Nurkic.

Easy no - still nothing offered to Denver. Bad picks and guys who won't play

[Nuggets_Talk]

I'd be all over the pure pick package of Memphis 2019, Min 2017 2nd and Heat 2020 2nd (Young can be salary filler).

I think if Denver demanded Zizic be part of the deal it'd likely either be straight up or no thanks. Contracts play a big part in it. Nurkic would need more money sooner and around the same time some of our core would be looking for raises, whereas Zizic has 4 years of being cheap. It seems like they're really high on Zizic as well so I just don't see that working.

I still think something with Rozier works with Jameer getting sent to a team like Memphis/Cleveland who could use a vet backup PG (maybe they kick a little extra in). Him the Memphis pick and some 2nds feels like better value from my perspective that just the pick package, plus it opens up 25 mins a night that can go to the kids rather than 34 year old Nelson. Even if you took Rozier on just to trade him this summer you'd probably get better value than Min 2017 2nd/MIA 2020 2nd.

Yeah, I don't think Zizic and a pick works. Zizic looks likely to be as good as Nurkic, and he'll be in the first year of his contract. I love Nurkic's upside but he'll want an extension next fall or will go into restricted free agency after that- same boat as Noel - which will lower his trade value if we need to flip him. If you wanted Zizic, we might need something extra back.

I could see Cleveland giving up a 1st to add Rozier to their bench, and we could flip that for Nurkic.

Here is a classic case of over-valueing someone who hasn't even PLAYED a minute in the NBA and saying "we might need something extra back" I do get that he'll be cheaper, but you truly have no idea how his play will translate in the NBA.

And you can say that CLE would give a 1st for Rozier but until it happens it's just a classic speculation/assumption/crap-outta-the-side-of your-(pick your body part) statement.

Wait, what? Zizic hasn't played in the NBA? Like at all?

I'm being serious. I don't follow Boston that much. I thought he was having a decent rookie year based on what Celtic fans are saying.

You've got to be kidding me.

[Nuggets_Talk]

I love how you guys are coming in here and telling us what the Nuggets need and what is going to work for them, especially when you really do not have a clue what you are talking about. Zizic was a 2nd round pick with no NBA experience, yet you guys think you can get him for a guy that was putting up plenty of double doubles as a starter with very good defense straight up for him? You think the Nuggets need to trade for your 3rd string PG, and hand him minutes, without even realizing that our 3rd string PG is the guy we drafted last summer 7th overall, and I would easily take Murray's future over Rozier's.

Nelson needs to be traded, but not to clear room so the Nuggets can trade Nurkic for a guy who would be 3rd string on this team.

Just about every time the Nuggets make a trade "experts" from throughout Realgm call us Nuggets fans crazy for what we say it will take, then they are shocked that Nuggets fans were right when the deal goes down. If Nurkic gets traded for a 3rd string PG and a marginal way in the future 1st than I think the Nuggets will have gotten robbed. I fully expect at least a solid prospect and a decent 1st to come back our way when Nurkic is traded.

This comment was a little harsh, no? I never once "came in here told you what the Nuggets need". Earlier I admittedly said I thought Murray was projected to be a SG, not a PG. Also, I honestly thought the person I said I agree with was someone from your board without looking into very much.

I've already said I was interested in an offer that someone from your board came up with as well. No need to be so defensive, jeez.

Well, let's be honest, Rozier was not brought up by ANY Nuggets fan and in almost all BOS fan's offers that I've seen. I gave my thoughts on Rozier so it does come across that the BOS fans are trying to push Rozier in most deals and he really isn't wanted here.

And I do get the harshness of going onto another teams boards, I have been all but crucified over on the BOS board. So unless you want to criticize it here but say nothing over there is a bit Kettle/pot IMO. Take a lesson from me, if you don't like it just walk away for awhile.

I have to agree with The Rebel in that most of the Nugget trades we get raked over the coals, be it homerism or not, most Nuggets fans feel that way.

To our credit we are far, far more respectful to other fans than the Boston board. They are relentless over there, super rude to opposing view points. And I fear being banned so I can't even say anything in return.

[Nuggets_Talk]

Portland trades Cle 2017 1st and Ed Davis or Plumlee or Vonleh, take your pick?

I would love to see one decent offer, even if it's still in the other teams favor.

I hope our front office doesn't dump nurkic for nothing.

[Nuggets_Talk]

Vonleh and 2017 CLE...

You'd be betting on Vonleh's potential and he's already been traded away from the team that drafted him, seems like a big risk there. As for the pick, it's #27, might as well be a 2nd

I'll pass.

and I get that, but I say better to take a flyer on Vonleh than to waste Nurkic - plus I like him too much to watch him waste away; send him somewhere we he'll be appreciated. As for Cleveland's pick, we might get lucky and it's #26 .

But why? We have so many role players already. Vonleh won't do anything here. The pick is worthless.

Fans love to offer lesser players and awful picks and hope it's fair I guess?

[SMTBSI]

To our credit we are far, far more respectful to other fans than the Boston board. They are relentless over there, super rude to opposing view points. And I fear being banned so I can't even say anything in return.

Well this is patent nonsense. I can't account for the weird thing that seems to exist between our fanbases right now, but I can say for sure that our mod crew is one of the most reasonable and communicative on the site - they will tell you if they feel you are crossing a line, before taking action.

And there is a large roster of fans from other forums, including key rivals, who hang out with us regularly. In my experience, the Boston forum is more welcome to opposing viewpoints than most.

We are very active, so by sheer volume you're guaranteed to get a few grumps. If one chooses to see only those...

[cl2117]

I am not being defensive, and if you don't want to be connected with a post, then maybe you shouldn't quote something and say you agree with it. Like it or not saying that a team needs to trade a guy elsewhere and then trade you a player for the guy you want to dump on us is pretty much telling us what the Nuggets need to do.

Yeah you are being defensive and just making stuff up at this point. This is what I said:

I still think something with Rozier works with Jameer getting sent to a team like Memphis/Cleveland who could use a vet backup PG (maybe they kick a little extra in). Him the Memphis pick and some 2nds feels like better value from my perspective that just the pick package, plus it opens up 25 mins a night that can go to the kids rather than 34 year old Nelson. Even if you took Rozier on just to trade him this summer you'd probably get better value than Min 2017 2nd/MIA 2020 2nd

Tell me where I say you NEED to trade a guy elsewhere for a guy we want to "dump". I'll wait....

No I said I think a trade would work with Rozier by sending out Jameer (to get value) and to free up minutes for the "kids", meaning Mudiay/Murray and even caveated with the fact that it could be purely to trade him again in the hopes you get more value than just a 2nd. AND this was all building off of a trade that someone on YOUR board posted. It was essentially swapping Rozier for Nelson.

I expect better from mods.

[NuggetsWY]

I am not being defensive, and if you don't want to be connected with a post, then maybe you shouldn't quote something and say you agree with it. Like it or not saying that a team needs to trade a guy elsewhere and then trade you a player for the guy you want to dump on us is pretty much telling us what the Nuggets need to do.

Yeah you are being defensive and just making stuff up at this point. This is what I said:

I still think something with Rozier works with Jameer getting sent to a team like Memphis/Cleveland who could use a vet backup PG (maybe they kick a little extra in). Him the Memphis pick and some 2nds feels like better value from my perspective that just the pick package, plus it opens up 25 mins a night that can go to the kids rather than 34 year old Nelson. Even if you took Rozier on just to trade him this summer you'd probably get better value than Min 2017 2nd/MIA 2020 2nd

Tell me where I say you NEED to trade a guy elsewhere for a guy we want to "dump". I'll wait....

No I said I think a trade would work with Rozier by sending out Jameer (to get value) and to free up minutes for the "kids", meaning Mudiay/Murray and even caveated with the fact that it could be purely to trade him again in the hopes you get more value than just a 2nd. AND this was all building off of a trade that someone on YOUR board posted. It was essentially swapping Rozier for Nelson.

I expect better from mods.

The Rebel is rather respected by other mods & other fans. I'd suggest you back off a little on that challenge. I'd prefer to expect better than that from a Boston fan, where you have some great mods. There are other ways to express an opinion than publicly.

As for this trade that is kicking around; I think Boston would do well to have Nurkic playing next to Horford. They'd probably compliment each other nicely and take some physical play off from Horford's back. If you don't watch Nurkic much, he's somewhat of a "gentle" giant that doesn't try to hurt people, but he can't be shoved around and if he thinks someone is playing too rough, he will not back down for anybody.

Meanwhile, I just haven't seen anything being offered that would be of comparable value. No doubt Denver fans over-value Nurkic. Most fans over-value their players because they see them all of the time. However, offering a 3rd string PG on a team with 4 PGs seems like a week offer. He is young and I like that, but he hasn't shown a lot of potential and 3rd string PGs are easy to find. Meanwhile Denver has Murray, Mudiay, and Nelson. Unless Nelson is included in a trade, it really doesn't make sense for Denver - since we already have 2 young PGs.

If we trade Nurkic, we will need a backup center, even if our coach likes to play a PF at center. Zizic looks good in international play but we all know that doesn't always translate well into the NBA, so he's as big a "maybe" as Rozier. They are both a gamble against Nurkic being a sure thing for at least being a decent backup center, if not starter (especially for Boston that hasn't found a big man amongst the so called excess of big men in the NBA). New Orleans is playing Davis at center and like Horford, he's better suited for PF IMO.

A future pick, 2 or 3 years out is always of questionable value, but can be worth the risk. Denver doesn't need a sure thing. We have plenty of youth we are already gambling on, but perhaps a 2017 pick that is likely to be late lottery, protect for say 1-6 or two future picks where one is projected low-playoff and the other a high-second. Use Rozier to match salaries or someone else to meet cap requirements. None of the Boston deep-bench players are going to kill Denver.

[NuggetsWY]

Why Vonleh? Why not? He's young and in just 12 mpg averages 3.5 pts & 3.5 rebs. Give him 24 mpg and he might be a 7 & 7 guy. That's not bad for a backup and who knows, he might pan out to be more. He's 6'9" with a 7'4" wingspan and fairly mobile but at 245 lbs, he's not going to be easily pushed around.

Throw in a late 1st round pick and that's two players to gamble on when trading one that isn't working for Denver.

I'm wondering if Boston & Philadelphia are having trouble trading because all the teams know they have too many assets "with potential". Denver might be in the same boat. So trading a player we don't want for two potentials is a gamble that I think makes sense. Improving the team is probably more valuable than "getting our money's worth" IMO. I know many will disagree, but that's part of my thinking.

[cl2117]

I am not being defensive, and if you don't want to be connected with a post, then maybe you shouldn't quote something and say you agree with it. Like it or not saying that a team needs to trade a guy elsewhere and then trade you a player for the guy you want to dump on us is pretty much telling us what the Nuggets need to do.

Yeah you are being defensive and just making stuff up at this point. This is what I said:

I still think something with Rozier works with Jameer getting sent to a team like Memphis/Cleveland who could use a vet backup PG (maybe they kick a little extra in). Him the Memphis pick and some 2nds feels like better value from my perspective that just the pick package, plus it opens up 25 mins a night that can go to the kids rather than 34 year old Nelson. Even if you took Rozier on just to trade him this summer you'd probably get better value than Min 2017 2nd/MIA 2020 2nd

Tell me where I say you NEED to trade a guy elsewhere for a guy we want to "dump". I'll wait....

No I said I think a trade would work with Rozier by sending out Jameer (to get value) and to free up minutes for the "kids", meaning Mudiay/Murray and even caveated with the fact that it could be purely to trade him again in the hopes you get more value than just a 2nd. AND this was all building off of a trade that someone on YOUR board posted. It was essentially swapping Rozier for Nelson.

I expect better from mods.

The Rebel is rather respected by other mods & other fans. I'd suggest you back off a little on that challenge. I'd prefer to expect better than that from a Boston fan, where you have some great mods. There are other ways to express an opinion than publicly.

It's not a challenge, it's holding people accountable. I think he's a good poster/mod, but he's wrong in this instance. He misrepresented what I said in a chastising manner, ignored my response and quoted another poster where he misrepresented me again. And the public/private route runs both ways. Your comments should be headed in the other direction on this one.

On the trade though, I completely understand your standpoint on Nurkic. I think what gets lost in all of this is that the value in the Boston "package" being bandied about is the Memphis pick. The rest is just finessing it try to to get it closer to fair value because admittedly that's not going to be enough for Denver fans based on what Nurkic has shown already, regardless of what is going on with him there internally. So I think it's destined to be contentious. Whether that other value is 2nd round picks or a guy like Yabusele or the dreaded Rozier, I think that's just putting makeup on a pig if the idea of trading Nurkic for a package based on that Memphis pick isn't close from the jump.

The problem being that if that's not enough for you, it's difficult to make anything else work. Nurkic is worth more than Boston's nickels (Rozier/Yabs/their own picks) but not as much as their dollars (BKN picks, Brown and despite it sounding ridiculous Zizic). That Memphis pick is about as close as Boston can get to Nurkic's value with a single piece without going over.

The exciting thing is that it looks like Nurkic will be traded by the deadline, so at least we'll all get to know what he goes for in the end regardless of where he ends up (I hate the blue balls of these discussions when nothing happens).

[NuggetsWY]

It's not a challenge, it's holding people accountable. I think he's a good poster/mod, but he's wrong in this instance. He misrepresented what I said in a chastising manner, ignored my response and quoted another poster where he misrepresented me again. And the public/private route runs both ways. Your comments should be headed in the other direction on this one.

I've always enjoyed your posts but on this single topic, I think you are out of perspective and not willing to even consider that. Now you are getting defensive. I'd suggest just letting it drop. It won't end well any other way.

Let another Celtic fan begin the concept anew and we shall consider it again. Thanks.