Batum lost his spot in the rotation last year because he was so bad, teams trying to sign him are hoping it was because he was still recovering and that maybe true, but he would have been the worst player on our roster last year.
Who do you cut? We currently do not have any roster spaces and all the contracts for the 15 man roster appear to be fully guaranteed at this point.
Batum is a SF, which is what we really need, we have 7 guards under contract next season, and 1 true SF.
The biggest issue is that by my calculations we are about $1.6 million under the luxury tax line and a minimum contract to Batum paying $2.1 million, with teams like Golden State and Brooklyn lined up to pay huge tax bills the team loses what they have to pay in tax plus the money they would get back from tax payers. Then you also have to cut someone on a guaranteed contract, so say Cancar gets cut, you still have to pay him $900,000. So Batum would cost $2.85 million, the cost to cut Cancar of $900K, plus the luxury tax payout which looks like it will be in the neighborhood of $5-7 million. So Batum will cost about $9 million for 1 year, and considering how young this team is and how bad Batum was last year, I would rather not sign him.
From my calculations we are 3-4M under the luxury tax, assuming Campazzo signed BAE. That gives Denver the margin to acquire a PF around 20M salary trading away Barton + Monte (even Cancar).
Another option might be using Grant´s TPE in PJ Tucker, but we would still need to dump Cancar +3M extra to avoid the tax
I finally had the chance to sit down and do the actual math (fanduel really should fix their sunday morning issues), and we are both off.
Based off Larry Coon's CBA FAQs and basketball reference, as well as the reported contracts offered but not yet reported as signed we are at
Those numbers include the $500K bonus for the 2nd round that both Jokic and Harris get, and the typical 120% that almost all rookie contracts actually pay out to their players.
Of course that is not including Harris's incentives for games available and total minutes played, which could add another million for the salary cap. So by my math (which could still be off) we could theoretically spend about $5 million more before the luxury tax becomes a huge concern.
Excellent work Rebel. It's possible that the Nuggets will hold on to that 5 mil slot until they see if injuries become a concern and they need to find a replacement (one they can fit in under a TPE).
Batum lost his spot in the rotation last year because he was so bad, teams trying to sign him are hoping it was because he was still recovering and that maybe true, but he would have been the worst player on our roster last year.
Who do you cut? We currently do not have any roster spaces and all the contracts for the 15 man roster appear to be fully guaranteed at this point.
Batum is a SF, which is what we really need, we have 7 guards under contract next season, and 1 true SF.
The biggest issue is that by my calculations we are about $1.6 million under the luxury tax line and a minimum contract to Batum paying $2.1 million, with teams like Golden State and Brooklyn lined up to pay huge tax bills the team loses what they have to pay in tax plus the money they would get back from tax payers. Then you also have to cut someone on a guaranteed contract, so say Cancar gets cut, you still have to pay him $900,000. So Batum would cost $2.85 million, the cost to cut Cancar of $900K, plus the luxury tax payout which looks like it will be in the neighborhood of $5-7 million. So Batum will cost about $9 million for 1 year, and considering how young this team is and how bad Batum was last year, I would rather not sign him.
From my calculations we are 3-4M under the luxury tax, assuming Campazzo signed BAE. That gives Denver the margin to acquire a PF around 20M salary trading away Barton + Monte (even Cancar).
Another option might be using Grant´s TPE in PJ Tucker, but we would still need to dump Cancar +3M extra to avoid the tax
I finally had the chance to sit down and do the actual math (fanduel really should fix their sunday morning issues), and we are both off.
Based off Larry Coon's CBA FAQs and basketball reference, as well as the reported contracts offered but not yet reported as signed we are at
Those numbers include the $500K bonus for the 2nd round that both Jokic and Harris get, and the typical 120% that almost all rookie contracts actually pay out to their players.
Of course that is not including Harris's incentives for games available and total minutes played, which could add another million for the salary cap. So by my math (which could still be off) we could theoretically spend about $5 million more before the luxury tax becomes a huge concern.
According to Spotrac, Jokic´s salary is 1M higher and similar case with Cancar´s. It is tough to fully estimate the cap because Harris´bonus are not disclosed.
If Spotrac and Hoopshype are correct, we should add 2M extra to your numbers and we are roughly 4M below the tax.
From my calculations we are 3-4M under the luxury tax, assuming Campazzo signed BAE. That gives Denver the margin to acquire a PF around 20M salary trading away Barton + Monte (even Cancar).
Another option might be using Grant´s TPE in PJ Tucker, but we would still need to dump Cancar +3M extra to avoid the tax
I finally had the chance to sit down and do the actual math (fanduel really should fix their sunday morning issues), and we are both off.
Based off Larry Coon's CBA FAQs and basketball reference, as well as the reported contracts offered but not yet reported as signed we are at
Those numbers include the $500K bonus for the 2nd round that both Jokic and Harris get, and the typical 120% that almost all rookie contracts actually pay out to their players.
Of course that is not including Harris's incentives for games available and total minutes played, which could add another million for the salary cap. So by my math (which could still be off) we could theoretically spend about $5 million more before the luxury tax becomes a huge concern.
According to Spotrac, Jokic´s salary is 1M higher and similar case with Cancar´s. It is tough to fully estimate the cap because Harris´bonus are not disclosed.
If Spotrac and Hoopshype are correct, we should add 2M extra to your numbers and we are roughly 4M below the tax.
You have to be careful on all the salaries reported, they all are incorrect on some players for some reason, basketball reference is usually the most correct once they have updated. I heard a rumor that Shamssports (not Shams Charania) was redoing his site, for a long time he was the most reliable by far.
You are right about Harris's deal, I just remember that I read several reports that he had $450,000 bonuses each for the team getting into the 1st round, 2nd round, games he is available to play, and total minutes played. With the likelyhood affecting the cap for signings, trades, and free agency based on the previous year but the actual tax calculated at the end of the season based on actual payout. We do know that the Nuggets openly have talked about leaving a cushion when they look at the tax.
You are correct in that Cancar is actually making $1,517,981 which is the minimum for a 2nd year player.
Jokic's salary based on his original max salary of $24,605,101 with a yearly 8% raise puts him at $28,542,009. Under CBA rules the raises do not compound so the increase stays the same every year.
Updating Cancar's salary leaves us at $5,490,425.00, plus you have to still deduct about $900K for Harris's bonuses so $4.5 in cap room the team may spend if needed.
TunaFish wrote:It's possible that the Nuggets will hold on to that 5 mil slot until they see if injuries become a concern and they need to find a replacement (one they can fit in under a TPE).
Has the NBA announced any special considerations due to potential covid infections? - Allowing teams to carry an extra player or two - Special cap exemptions
TunaFish wrote:It's possible that the Nuggets will hold on to that 5 mil slot until they see if injuries become a concern and they need to find a replacement (one they can fit in under a TPE).
Has the NBA announced any special considerations due to potential covid infections? - Allowing teams to carry an extra player or two - Special cap exemptions
I heard there was talk of extending the amt of games played by 2-way players but I have nothing to validate that. Nothing on cap exemptions though.
Texas Chuck wrote:I'd like to see Utah, and Denver lose
THE J0KER wrote:After clearing waivers Nic Batum going to Clippers. Another missed opportunity to improve defensively on cheap way.
You complain about Harris's lack of offense yet this is a "missed opportunity" for a guy whose in SERIOUS decline averaging around 8ppg over the past 3 years......granted we wouldn't be paying him $19M, but your assessment of Batum and his fit here does feel a bit odd.
Texas Chuck wrote:I'd like to see Utah, and Denver lose
THE J0KER wrote:After clearing waivers Nic Batum going to Clippers. Another missed opportunity to improve defensively on cheap way.
What based on his game last year makes you think he would be a good fit in our system? Who do you cut to bring him in? Who do you promise him minutes over to get him to sign here? That is what happens if you want him here, that is what it takes, and saying well he is good means nothing to me, give a real argument of why we missed out on a guy who would get minutes here this year.
Judging by his game the last 3 years he is not getting minutes over Millsap, Green, Barton, or MPJ, in fact I am not sure he could get minutes over Cancar or Bol at this point.
THE J0KER wrote:After clearing waivers Nic Batum going to Clippers. Another missed opportunity to improve defensively on cheap way.
What based on his game last year makes you think he would be a good fit in our system? Who do you cut to bring him in? Who do you promise him minutes over to get him to sign here? That is what happens if you want him here, that is what it takes, and saying well he is good means nothing to me, give a real argument of why we missed out on a guy who would get minutes here this year.
Judging by his game the last 3 years he is not getting minutes over Millsap, Green, Barton, or MPJ, in fact I am not sure he could get minutes over Cancar or Bol at this point.
I like Batum and at one time, I thought he might actually fit nicely in Denver. But he no long seems to fit into our roster. He'd be, at best, a backup to Porter. I just don't see him as being a starter in Denver. Barton plays a close enough style that he can fill that same role. I'd rather, if we are getting a small forward, find someone with stronger defense.
THE J0KER wrote:After clearing waivers Nic Batum going to Clippers. Another missed opportunity to improve defensively on cheap way.
What based on his game last year makes you think he would be a good fit in our system? Who do you cut to bring him in? Who do you promise him minutes over to get him to sign here? That is what happens if you want him here, that is what it takes, and saying well he is good means nothing to me, give a real argument of why we missed out on a guy who would get minutes here this year.
Judging by his game the last 3 years he is not getting minutes over Millsap, Green, Barton, or MPJ, in fact I am not sure he could get minutes over Cancar or Bol at this point.
Nobody says Batum is the same player which signed a 120/5 contract four years ago, but he was a day ago the best available player we can get right now close to a veteran minimum range, and at 32y he is actually not that old at all. We don't need him as a backup for Millsap or Green, but for Harris and Barton. Last season with injuries and confusion about his status, Batum played only 20 games, but the season before, in 2018-19, he is an all-around 45%39%87% two-way player. If Clippers thinks due to his versatility Batum can be a decent backup for elite NBA guard-forwards George and Kawhi, I'm pretty sure he would find his role and minutes in this Nuggets team, especially because Harris and Barton are players with the biggest injury problems last season.
THE J0KER wrote:If Clippers thinks due to his versatility Batum can be a decent backup for elite NBA guard-forwards George and Kawhi,
Do they really think that tho? They likely picked him because they have nothing to lose, half of their roster are guys that may or may not be there in the nearest future, they are not developing anyone so why not.
THE J0KER wrote:After clearing waivers Nic Batum going to Clippers. Another missed opportunity to improve defensively on cheap way.
What based on his game last year makes you think he would be a good fit in our system? Who do you cut to bring him in? Who do you promise him minutes over to get him to sign here? That is what happens if you want him here, that is what it takes, and saying well he is good means nothing to me, give a real argument of why we missed out on a guy who would get minutes here this year.
Judging by his game the last 3 years he is not getting minutes over Millsap, Green, Barton, or MPJ, in fact I am not sure he could get minutes over Cancar or Bol at this point.
Nobody says Batum is the same player which signed a 120/5 contract four years ago, but he was a day ago the best available player we can get right now close to a veteran minimum range, and at 32y he is actually not that old at all. We don't need him as a backup for Millsap or Green, but for Harris and Barton. Last season with injuries and confusion about his status, Batum played only 20 games, but the season before, in 2018-19, he is an all-around 45%39%87% two-way player. If Clippers thinks due to his versatility Batum can be a decent backup for elite NBA guard-forwards George and Kawhi, I'm pretty sure he would find his role and minutes in this Nuggets team, especially because Harris and Barton are players with the biggest injury problems last season.
In that whole paragraph you did not answer a single 1 of my questions, so I don't know why you quoted me.
Who are the Clippers backup forwards? Last I checked they lost their backup forwards outside of Morris SR, and they still have roster slots available.
Batum has not played SG in years and is not likely to play meaningful minutes there again, and at SF we have Barton backing up MPJ, so once again where do the minutes come from?
He was not injured last year, he lost his starting job the previous year to Bridges and last year lost his backup minutes to a couple of 2nd round pick rookies.
Your whole paragraph is basically well he used to be good and the Clippers signed him, so we missed out. He could have been our 4 string SF.
So I will ask again. What based on his game last year makes you think he would be a good fit in our system? Who do you cut to bring him in? Who do you promise him minutes over to get him to sign here? That is what happens if you want him here, that is what it takes, and saying well he is good means nothing to me, give a real argument of why we missed out on a guy who would get minutes here this year.
The Rebel wrote: What based on his game last year makes you think he would be a good fit in our system? Who do you cut to bring him in? Who do you promise him minutes over to get him to sign here? That is what happens if you want him here, that is what it takes, and saying well he is good means nothing to me, give a real argument of why we missed out on a guy who would get minutes here this year.
Judging by his game the last 3 years he is not getting minutes over Millsap, Green, Barton, or MPJ, in fact I am not sure he could get minutes over Cancar or Bol at this point.
Nobody says Batum is the same player which signed a 120/5 contract four years ago, but he was a day ago the best available player we can get right now close to a veteran minimum range, and at 32y he is actually not that old at all. We don't need him as a backup for Millsap or Green, but for Harris and Barton. Last season with injuries and confusion about his status, Batum played only 20 games, but the season before, in 2018-19, he is an all-around 45%39%87% two-way player. If Clippers thinks due to his versatility Batum can be a decent backup for elite NBA guard-forwards George and Kawhi, I'm pretty sure he would find his role and minutes in this Nuggets team, especially because Harris and Barton are players with the biggest injury problems last season.
In that whole paragraph you did not answer a single 1 of my questions, so I don't know why you quoted me.
Who are the Clippers backup forwards? Last I checked they lost their backup forwards outside of Morris SR, and they still have roster slots available.
Batum has not played SG in years and is not likely to play meaningful minutes there again, and at SF we have Barton backing up MPJ, so once again where do the minutes come from?
He was not injured last year, he lost his starting job the previous year to Bridges and last year lost his backup minutes to a couple of 2nd round pick rookies.
Your whole paragraph is basically well he used to be good and the Clippers signed him, so we missed out. He could have been our 4 string SF.
So I will ask again. What based on his game last year makes you think he would be a good fit in our system? Who do you cut to bring him in? Who do you promise him minutes over to get him to sign here? That is what happens if you want him here, that is what it takes, and saying well he is good means nothing to me, give a real argument of why we missed out on a guy who would get minutes here this year.
But he’s got a big name (at least at one time)
Texas Chuck wrote:I'd like to see Utah, and Denver lose
THE J0KER wrote:Nobody says Batum is the same player which signed a 120/5 contract four years ago, but he was a day ago the best available player we can get right now close to a veteran minimum range, and at 32y he is actually not that old at all. We don't need him as a backup for Millsap or Green, but for Harris and Barton. Last season with injuries and confusion about his status, Batum played only 20 games, but the season before, in 2018-19, he is an all-around 45%39%87% two-way player. If Clippers thinks due to his versatility Batum can be a decent backup for elite NBA guard-forwards George and Kawhi, I'm pretty sure he would find his role and minutes in this Nuggets team, especially because Harris and Barton are players with the biggest injury problems last season.
In that whole paragraph you did not answer a single 1 of my questions, so I don't know why you quoted me.
Who are the Clippers backup forwards? Last I checked they lost their backup forwards outside of Morris SR, and they still have roster slots available.
Batum has not played SG in years and is not likely to play meaningful minutes there again, and at SF we have Barton backing up MPJ, so once again where do the minutes come from?
He was not injured last year, he lost his starting job the previous year to Bridges and last year lost his backup minutes to a couple of 2nd round pick rookies.
Your whole paragraph is basically well he used to be good and the Clippers signed him, so we missed out. He could have been our 4 string SF.
So I will ask again. What based on his game last year makes you think he would be a good fit in our system? Who do you cut to bring him in? Who do you promise him minutes over to get him to sign here? That is what happens if you want him here, that is what it takes, and saying well he is good means nothing to me, give a real argument of why we missed out on a guy who would get minutes here this year.
But he’s got a big name (at least at one time)
I'm not trying to be an ****, I just don't get it. This isn't video games where an older guy just isn't as fast and has less stamina, injuries can and do end careers. I am not sure Batum is really at the end of his career, or just decided to quit on his team the last couple of years, but either way I am not interested in him.
Over the last 5 years our front office has drafted and developed 6 guys who are projected to start for their teams in the 5 years between 2013-2018. Add in Morris, Craig, Goodwin, and Davis there are 4 more that were 2nd rounders or found off the scrap heap. That is 10 guys that they found and developed in 5 years will be important role players up to a franchise player for their teams. Out of only 15 draft picks, 8 of which were 1st round picks. I cannot remember a front office since the early 90s that was nearly that good at finding guys through the draft and overlooked unsigned players. For all the hype Presti got, and he is good, he was drafting much higher and still did not find that much talent in 5 years.
Right now we have Bol, Cancar, Hampton, Nnaji, Campazzo, Hartenstein, Howard, and Whittington that we do not know enough about, they are all rookies or close to it. Considering our front office's history I am willing to bet there are at least 4 rotation quality players right there right now. That along with Jokic, Murray, Morris, Harris, Barton, MPJ, Millsap, and Green gives us a 12 man rotation and that is at a minimum considering Connelly's history. Of course at most our rotation is likely to be around 10, so there will be competition for those bench minutes, which is how this team has been built since Connelly took over.
Don't get me wrong, if there is an obvious upgrade than I think we should pursue it, but that obvious upgrade is not going to be a guy like Batum if you ask me.
The Rebel wrote:In that whole paragraph you did not answer a single 1 of my questions, so I don't know why you quoted me.
Who are the Clippers backup forwards? Last I checked they lost their backup forwards outside of Morris SR, and they still have roster slots available.
Batum has not played SG in years and is not likely to play meaningful minutes there again, and at SF we have Barton backing up MPJ, so once again where do the minutes come from?
He was not injured last year, he lost his starting job the previous year to Bridges and last year lost his backup minutes to a couple of 2nd round pick rookies.
Your whole paragraph is basically well he used to be good and the Clippers signed him, so we missed out. He could have been our 4 string SF.
So I will ask again. What based on his game last year makes you think he would be a good fit in our system? Who do you cut to bring him in? Who do you promise him minutes over to get him to sign here? That is what happens if you want him here, that is what it takes, and saying well he is good means nothing to me, give a real argument of why we missed out on a guy who would get minutes here this year.
But he’s got a big name (at least at one time)
I'm not trying to be an ****, I just don't get it. This isn't video games where an older guy just isn't as fast and has less stamina, injuries can and do end careers. I am not sure Batum is really at the end of his career, or just decided to quit on his team the last couple of years, but either way I am not interested in him.
Over the last 5 years our front office has drafted and developed 6 guys who are projected to start for their teams in the 5 years between 2013-2018. Add in Morris, Craig, Goodwin, and Davis there are 4 more that were 2nd rounders or found off the scrap heap. That is 10 guys that they found and developed in 5 years will be important role players up to a franchise player for their teams. Out of only 15 draft picks, 8 of which were 1st round picks. I cannot remember a front office since the early 90s that was nearly that good at finding guys through the draft and overlooked unsigned players. For all the hype Presti got, and he is good, he was drafting much higher and still did not find that much talent in 5 years.
Right now we have Bol, Cancar, Hampton, Nnaji, Campazzo, Hartenstein, Howard, and Whittington that we do not know enough about, they are all rookies or close to it. Considering our front office's history I am willing to bet there are at least 4 rotation quality players right there right now. That along with Jokic, Murray, Morris, Harris, Barton, MPJ, Millsap, and Green gives us a 12 man rotation and that is at a minimum considering Connelly's history. Of course at most our rotation is likely to be around 10, so there will be competition for those bench minutes, which is how this team has been built since Connelly took over.
Don't get me wrong, if there is an obvious upgrade than I think we should pursue it, but that obvious upgrade is not going to be a guy like Batum if you ask me.
As usual, good perspective, well said
Texas Chuck wrote:I'd like to see Utah, and Denver lose
The Rebel wrote: What based on his game last year makes you think he would be a good fit in our system? Who do you cut to bring him in? Who do you promise him minutes over to get him to sign here? That is what happens if you want him here, that is what it takes, and saying well he is good means nothing to me, give a real argument of why we missed out on a guy who would get minutes here this year.
Judging by his game the last 3 years he is not getting minutes over Millsap, Green, Barton, or MPJ, in fact I am not sure he could get minutes over Cancar or Bol at this point.
Nobody says Batum is the same player which signed a 120/5 contract four years ago, but he was a day ago the best available player we can get right now close to a veteran minimum range, and at 32y he is actually not that old at all. We don't need him as a backup for Millsap or Green, but for Harris and Barton. Last season with injuries and confusion about his status, Batum played only 20 games, but the season before, in 2018-19, he is an all-around 45%39%87% two-way player. If Clippers thinks due to his versatility Batum can be a decent backup for elite NBA guard-forwards George and Kawhi, I'm pretty sure he would find his role and minutes in this Nuggets team, especially because Harris and Barton are players with the biggest injury problems last season.
In that whole paragraph you did not answer a single 1 of my questions, so I don't know why you quoted me.
Who are the Clippers backup forwards? Last I checked they lost their backup forwards outside of Morris SR, and they still have roster slots available.
Batum has not played SG in years and is not likely to play meaningful minutes there again, and at SF we have Barton backing up MPJ, so once again where do the minutes come from?
He was not injured last year, he lost his starting job the previous year to Bridges and last year lost his backup minutes to a couple of 2nd round pick rookies.
Your whole paragraph is basically well he used to be good and the Clippers signed him, so we missed out. He could have been our 4 string SF.
So I will ask again. What based on his game last year makes you think he would be a good fit in our system? Who do you cut to bring him in? Who do you promise him minutes over to get him to sign here? That is what happens if you want him here, that is what it takes, and saying well he is good means nothing to me, give a real argument of why we missed out on a guy who would get minutes here this year.
I answered you why in Batum's case 2018-19 is more relevant where he played 75 games than 2019-20 where he played just 22 with messed status. BTW you estimate him also "...Judging by his game the last 3 years..." so I give you a different estimation of him based on these last 3 seasons. Last season 30+ mpg guys Harris and Barton missed many games, and Harris would miss the playoff if it is not played in summer while Barton missed even with few months postponed postseason, but you asking why we need (as insurance) guy who can replace Harris and Barton both!? You talking about the Clippers like they are a lottery tanking team which doesn't care very much who they sign for the bench, but that team is a title contender lately famous for the role they give to their bench rotation, including three different Clippers players which won 6th man award 5 times in past 7 years. And isn't our biggest 2020 FA market addition their's 20mpg JaMychal Green? With Millsap aging and Plumlee left the team, Batum has the potential to be our #2 defensive specialist (after Harris).
I'm not sure how good will be the upcoming season for Batum, because the previous one was a real mess, but based on everything else it is not surprising that three elite defensive teams Clippers, Bucks, and Jazz tried to get Batum after Charlotte cleared him. With decent 2021 percentages, he would not only find his place in 15 men roster but in 10-men playoff rotations, especially if Harris or Barton's injury problems continue next season.
In the other post, you talked about young players which we need to develop. But until Malone is our coach they will not get more minutes than garbage time with or without Batum anyway. Porter last season in "per 36 minutes" numbers is in the close level (if not the same) as Zion or Morant, and when he finally get some decent playing time in the bubble (only thanks to the team's injury problems) he was part of 2020 all-NBA bubble team. But at the end of the day, he was not part of the all-star rookie game nor not even a member of the all-rookie 2nd team due to lack of minutes!? If MPJ with such a level of 2020 play (our already 3rd best player in "per 36 minutes" stats) was ignored most of the time by Malone what to expect from our 2021 kindergarten? I just hope to see Bol Bol playing 15+mpg and have no other expectations from Malone. We can say how Malone developed Nurkic and Beasley into notable NBA players, Juancho and Lyles are NBA starters too, but how many minutes they get in the final year in Denver, still young but with 3 or 4 NBA years experience? And they all are ready for a bigger role, as starters in the new teams from the very first game. Some Craig, Barton, or Chandler will always get an advantage under Malone, so if the coach gives veterans playing time anyway, why not sign a veteran which is a good bet to be useful for under 5M money?
THE J0KER wrote: why not sign a veteran which is a good bet to be useful for under 5M money?
A good bet wouldn't be waved then signed for a vet minimum. I mean, if that was the Nugget's goal, then what was the point of letting Craig go? He was also defensive-minded, cheap and if anything better fitting and not an injury concern.
THE J0KER wrote: why not sign a veteran which is a good bet to be useful for under 5M money?
A good bet wouldn't be waved then signed for a vet minimum. I mean, if that was the Nugget's goal, then what was the point of letting Craig go? He was also defensive-minded, cheap and if anything better fitting and not an injury concern.
Well, hard to make changes when you don’t know the impact on the chemistry of this team, part of why we were so good last year
Texas Chuck wrote:I'd like to see Utah, and Denver lose
THE J0KER wrote:Nobody says Batum is the same player which signed a 120/5 contract four years ago, but he was a day ago the best available player we can get right now close to a veteran minimum range, and at 32y he is actually not that old at all. We don't need him as a backup for Millsap or Green, but for Harris and Barton. Last season with injuries and confusion about his status, Batum played only 20 games, but the season before, in 2018-19, he is an all-around 45%39%87% two-way player. If Clippers thinks due to his versatility Batum can be a decent backup for elite NBA guard-forwards George and Kawhi, I'm pretty sure he would find his role and minutes in this Nuggets team, especially because Harris and Barton are players with the biggest injury problems last season.
In that whole paragraph you did not answer a single 1 of my questions, so I don't know why you quoted me.
Who are the Clippers backup forwards? Last I checked they lost their backup forwards outside of Morris SR, and they still have roster slots available.
Batum has not played SG in years and is not likely to play meaningful minutes there again, and at SF we have Barton backing up MPJ, so once again where do the minutes come from?
He was not injured last year, he lost his starting job the previous year to Bridges and last year lost his backup minutes to a couple of 2nd round pick rookies.
Your whole paragraph is basically well he used to be good and the Clippers signed him, so we missed out. He could have been our 4 string SF.
So I will ask again. What based on his game last year makes you think he would be a good fit in our system? Who do you cut to bring him in? Who do you promise him minutes over to get him to sign here? That is what happens if you want him here, that is what it takes, and saying well he is good means nothing to me, give a real argument of why we missed out on a guy who would get minutes here this year.
I answered you why in Batum's case 2018-19 is more relevant where he played 75 games than 2019-20 where he played just 22 with messed status. BTW you estimate him also "...Judging by his game the last 3 years..." so I give you a different estimation of him based on these last 3 seasons. Last season 30+ mpg guys Harris and Barton missed many games, and Harris would miss the playoff if it is not played in summer while Barton missed even with few months postponed postseason, but you asking why we need (as insurance) guy who can replace Harris and Barton both!? You talking about the Clippers like they are a lottery tanking team which doesn't care very much who they sign for the bench, but that team is a title contender lately famous for the role they give to their bench rotation, including three different Clippers players which won 6th man award 5 times in past 7 years. And isn't our biggest 2020 FA market addition their's 20mpg JaMychal Green? With Millsap aging and Plumlee left the team, Batum has the potential to be our #2 defensive specialist (after Harris).
I have never said that we do not need a backup for Barton and/or Harris, in fact I think I have been very clear that I think we need another SG/SF all offseason. The issue is whether Batum would be a suitable argument? Using numbers from 2 years ago while ignoring last season tells me that you really do not have an argument. You see you may have a case if Batum had been injured last year but that wasn't the issue. He showed up out of shape and half assed it all season, he lost his job too a 21 year old in training camp and then lost the backup role to 2nd round rookies.
THE J0KER wrote: I'm not sure how good will be the upcoming season for Batum, because the previous one was a real mess, but based on everything else it is not surprising that three elite defensive teams Clippers, Bucks, and Jazz tried to get Batum after Charlotte cleared him. With decent 2021 percentages, he would not only find his place in 15 men roster but in 10-men playoff rotations, especially if Harris or Barton's injury problems continue next season.
The Jazz had a undrafted rookie starting playoff games at forward in the playoffs, they are desperate for forwards. The Bucks lost Korver, Williams, Ilyosova, and Brown at forward this offseason and replaced them with Bobby Portis and Torrey Craig and have 2 open roster spots that they need to fill with forwards. The Clippers traded Harkless during the season and lost both Harrell and Green to free agency replaced them with a PF/C in Ibaka, they also have 2 open roster spots and are desperate for a SF to backup Kawhi who constantly load manages. They had huge needs.
You keep bringing up Harris, Batum has not played SG in at least 4 years, and we have 7 guards. We don't need another guard. As for SF Barton is backing up MPJ, we have 2 starting quality SFs and a bench combo forward, how much depth do you think we need?
THE J0KER wrote:In the other post, you talked about young players which we need to develop. But until Malone is our coach they will not get more minutes than garbage time with or without Batum anyway. Porter last season in "per 36 minutes" numbers is in the close level (if not the same) as Zion or Morant, and when he finally get some decent playing time in the bubble (only thanks to the team's injury problems) he was part of 2020 all-NBA bubble team. But at the end of the day, he was not part of the all-star rookie game nor not even a member of the all-rookie 2nd team due to lack of minutes!? If MPJ with such a level of 2020 play (our already 3rd best player in "per 36 minutes" stats) was ignored most of the time by Malone what to expect from our 2021 kindergarten? I just hope to see Bol Bol playing 15+mpg and have no other expectations from Malone. We can say how Malone developed Nurkic and Beasley into notable NBA players, Juancho and Lyles are NBA starters too, but how many minutes they get in the final year in Denver, still young but with 3 or 4 NBA years experience? And they all are ready for a bigger role, as starters in the new teams from the very first game. Some Craig, Barton, or Chandler will always get an advantage under Malone, so if the coach gives veterans playing time anyway, why not sign a veteran which is a good bet to be useful for under 5M money?
The same Porter that had a rotation spot by mid-December despite being behind 2 guys that ended the season starting for their teams? The guy who sprained his ankle at the end of January so he missed some games in February, but up until then was getting 21 mpg in January? That guy? Zion and Morant got plenty of minutes, they were force fed minutes, how many playoff minutes did they get? How many starting quality players did they have in front of them on the depth chart? Who cares about meaningless awards, we are trying to win a championship, not win awards for rookies putting up stats on a hopeless team.
It is laughable how some of you guys bitch about Malone not playing young guys when we have 6 of out top 8 minutes guys last year are guys that Malone developed. When just 2 years ago we were the 4th youngest team in league history to get to the 2nd round, and we are younger now outside of Millsap. Talented young guys who put in the work needed are what this entire team has been built on, and the fact that our rotation will likely have 6-7 guys that Malone developed proves it.
Now you want to talk about guys that are gone. How does that support your argument? Beasley could not take minutes from Harris, Barton, nor Morris because he refused to put effort in on defense. Nurkic was clearly outplayed by Jokic in a position battle and refused to change his game or come off the bench. Lyles is still not as good as Grant nor Millsap, why should he have gotten minutes? The funniest thing is that you bitch about MPJ not getting minutes, and then use Juancho not getting minutes against Malone? Juancho was traded because Porter took his minutes and he could not beat out Barton, MPJ, Millsap, or Grant for minutes, the fact that he was starting for the Twolves says a lot more about our depth and their lack of talent than it does about Malone, especially since we got 3 guys that were rotation guys for them with the 1 we cut because we had no need for him being a starter and the other 2 getting almost no meaningful minutes for us.
Our bench was bad last year, especially in the playoffs. Statistically the 3 worst during the season were Craig, Plumlee, and Grant, in the playoffs Craig and Plumlee were terrible. We now have either Barton or MPJ coming off the bench, we have 3 guys to battle for minutes at C, 3 guys to battle for backup minutes at PF, 3 guys to battle for backup minutes at SF, and 5 guys to battle at backup SG for minutes. Most of them are in their 1st 2 years in the league and many are young, Malone will have no choice but to play young guys throughout the season, so your answer is that Malone doesn't play young guys and let's go get a washed up veteran? But then you bitch that Malone will not play young guys. HOw does that even start to make sense?
