So Bucher kind of killed our hopes for Artest

[UNLVNugsFan]

The more I hear from the Artest camp, and the more I think about his personality, the less and less I want to trade Kleiza for him. Artest is bad news, hell, everyone is forgetting that he wasn't just a problem in Indy, but in Sacramento (domestic abuse, animal abuse) as well.

You combine his personal problems, with the fact that we dramatically have to alter our starting lineup to accommodate him (unless everyone is happy with Melo playing PF, or AI playing PG......), the fact that he would possibly bolt for more money elsewhere (or the fact that he is unpredictable and could leave for any # of reasons), and realizing that he could rip apart any type of locker room cohesion the nuggets have (LK and Najera seem to be pretty
well liked in the locker room).

Once you add up all the negatives, I actually sure as hell, would not want to trade LK for Artest. I would much rather bring in Mike Miller (who I believe would accept a bench role, if he was promised 25-30 mpg, plus he does not have a history of near-insanity), Delonte West, or even Sam Cassell.

[AILebronMelo]

Neither Miller, West or Cassell get this team to the next level. Unless you enjoy us at the 7th or 8th spot getting bounce out the first round again.

[TunaFish]

ESPN, during last night's game, is reporting that the Nuggets are unwilling to trade Kleiza as part of a package for Artest. That seems obvious, given the value of Kleiza due to his scoring ability, ability to play multiple positions and his contract. He has upside. The other obvious problem is lack of depth at power forward if both Kleiza and Najera leave. No, I don't think Artest is a power forward.

Clearly, based on what little we can know, the Nuggets are interesting in Artest but for not much in return value. That also is not a surprise given what most teams think about Artest, including the obvious, that he might "blow up" or that he will opt out and demand a huge contract. Sacramento is not likely to want Artest at anywhere near what Artest thinks he is worth next year. For that matter, most teams are going to pass at that amount. Maybe all teams.

Artest's agent, based on his statements, knows nothing about any trade discussions. He only guesses that any trade has to be to the Eastern Conference for obvious reasons such as the Kings' need to move him out of the Western Conference. That is exactly what Artest's agent is hoping. Of course, he thinks Artest is worth 13 to 14 million dollars in his next contract; he wouldn't be much of an agent if he didn't say that. Only a few teams can afford that kind of contract and they are mostly in the Eastern Conference (Philly, Charlotte and Atlanta).

Looking at the teams named by Artest's agent you can see some desperation in his thinking. Atlanta is loaded at guard, pf and small forward, they need a center and point guard and don't look like a good landing spot. Charlotte seems set at sf and 2 guard as well; Philly is set at sf. Atlanta, Philly and Charlotte are not contenders yet and they might see the contract requested as positioning themselves out of contention for free agents in the future. Artest's agent might hope for something from these teams but I doubt they are players for Artest.

The teams that need Artest are contenders now like Denver and will not be offering much because they see the issue the same as Artest's agent. Artest will opt out. Artest is only interested next season in the largest contract he can find, whether it is with a good team or bad. Whoever trades for Artest at this point is doing so only for rental purposes. That hurts his trade value.

Unless Sacramento can make a push into the playoffs, which seems unlikely, then what value is Artest to the Kings? He is an expiring but not a large expiring. If the team doesn't play well down the stretch, Artest is a risk to cause problems. Given how far they are out of a playoff position and the depth of the West, the Kings need to get rid of him to get something back whether their fans realize it or not. After all, they got him for Peja who became an unrestricted free agent and left Indy with nothing in return. The result of just letting his contract expire is not the best option. A combination of an expiring, young talent or draft pick of most any range returning will probably lead to a trade soon. Contenders will not be trading too much talent that they will need for their run, will not have high draft picks to give up and probably are above the cap and might need expirings next season, if they have them. Golden State's trade exception at 10 million is out there but what can Sacramento do with it besides letting it expire?

The question is who will step up with an acceptable offer? Will that be Denver? Najera because of his expiring contract is obviously the bait but alone he is not enough contract wise to match Artest. Add Kleize or J.R. or Hunter with Najera and a trade meets the conditions of the collective bargaining agreement. However, now Denver has to think about what it is giving up to get a rental player.

If Kleiza is the trade piece that holds the deal up, then maybe a trade is not likely with Denver. I think Denver's front office likes J.R.'s future as well and may be reluctant to part with him, despite what Karl may think. Further, Sacramento does not need a 2 guard. If any deal includes J.R. then it would have to involve some third team, just as Artest's agent hints as a possible outcome. Not likely in any event.

Artest's agent might be right that Denver doesn't have the pieces because Denver doesn't want to give up much more that Najera and filler. Perhaps Najera with Von Wafer or Hunter is all that Denver will offer. That may turn out to be a good thing for Denver, now and in the future, if they refuse to trade Kleiza. Maybe Najera and J.R. will be traded and the Kings take J.R. just to move him or another 2 guard later.

If Sacramento makes the trade with Denver then it is because there is nothing to be gained elsewhere, another possibility.

[black06eclipse]

what a shock! Artest's agent is talking big!

gasp!

i'd love to hear what Earl Boykin's agent told him last summer. "Opt out, Earl. We're gonna hold out for the midlevel. It's guaranteed!"

[corona]

good to see you posting, tuna.

The other obvious problem is lack of depth at power forward if both Kleiza and Najera leave. No, I don't think Artest is a power forward.

he's 6'8 and 250lbs. he's not a powerforward in the way most think of PFs (duncan, kg...etc)...but he's more than capable of guarding that position for the most part, and taking advantage of it offensively on the perimeter.
in other words, he's as much a PF as Najera or Kleiza are. so in those terms i don't see the problem with swapping those two for ron.

After all, they got him for Peja who became an unrestricted free agent and left Indy with nothing in return.

peja turned into a trade exception, which turned into al harrington, who along with jackson turned into murphy/dunleavy. so indy did get something out of it, but you're right in that it was an expiring contract.
plus artest's value is lower now being that he's also on an expiring deal.

[UNLVNugsFan]

Neither Miller, West or Cassell get this team to the next level. Unless you enjoy us at the 7th or 8th spot getting bounce out the first round again.

I don't see Artest having much more of an impact then a player like Mike Miller, but thats just me. I would rather have LK for the foreseeable future, and stay at a 6-7 seed (this season), then move up to a 5 seed for half a season with Artest (assuming he doesn't blow up somewhere along the line), and see him walk away with only a TE to show for it.

EDIT: and who's to say that Artest would even help us out? Artest is a very moody player, who I could easily see getting irritated being the 3rd option. Hell, he got irritated in Indy playing the 2nd option behind JO, and some would say he is irritated in Sacramento because he is the 2nd option behind K-Mart. That only makes it more likely he would bolt.

[pickaxe]

what a shock! Artest's agent is talking big!

gasp!

i'd love to hear what Earl Boykin's agent told him last summer. "Opt out, Earl. We're gonna hold out for the midlevel. It's guaranteed!"

Artest should also learn from Sprewell. You can have talent but not a good financial plan.

[AILebronMelo]

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I don't see Artest having much more of an impact then a player like Mike Miller, but thats just me. I would rather have LK for the foreseeable future, and stay at a 6-7 seed (this season), then move up to a 5 seed for half a season with Artest (assuming he doesn't blow up somewhere along the line), and see him walk away with only a TE to show for it.

EDIT: and who's to say that Artest would even help us out? Artest is a very moody player, who I could easily see getting irritated being the 3rd option. Hell, he got irritated in Indy playing the 2nd option behind JO, and some would say he is irritated in Sacramento because he is the 2nd option behind K-Mart. That only makes it more likely he would bolt.

Let me start off sayin I am against us giving up Klieza or Jr Smith because I think they are both good for the future. However if we can get Artest for cheap then I am all for it. I like Miller too dont get me wrong but he has no defense and that is what we are lacking is a peremeiter defender with a nice post game too.

[big123]

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Let me start off sayin I am against us giving up Klieza or Jr Smith because I think they are both good for the future. However if we can get Artest for cheap then I am all for it. I like Miller too dont get me wrong but he has no defense and that is what we are lacking is a peremeiter defender with a nice post game too.

Agreed. Artest gives you more intangibles than Miller does.

[sackings916]

Denver has no choice but to take a gamble IMO. What other options do they have? Leave their team as is and get bounced in the 1st round? I dont think rebuilding is an option right now with their roster. If they can add a high quality player without trading any of their big 3(Melo/AI/Camby) they should take the risk. When AI/Camby come off the books start the rebuilding process.

[big123]

Denver has no choice but to take a gamble IMO. What other options do they have? Leave their team as is and get bounced in the 1st round? I dont think rebuilding is an option right now with their roster. If they can add a high quality player without trading any of their big 3(Melo/AI/Camby) they should take the risk. When AI/Camby come off the books start the rebuilding process.

I agree man. Melo and Nene will still be the centerpieces and most important pieces, so not much would be lost. I think the FO is a little upset right now because they thought AI alone w/Nene would be enough to give them a legit shot, while having a backup plan of Nene, Klieza and JR. Maybe they still think that to an extent, but if they currently don't, espcially without nene this year, they gotta adjust or call it a close call.

[Smills91]

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Well, first of all there are trade restrictions. Sacramento is not going to get 14 mil worth of players for a 7 mil contract. Simple math.

Now, the possibility of Artest helping the Nuggets to a championship (which, can he really attest, haha, to being able to do that?) and garner a contract next couple years closer to his actual worth?

And that's his agent speaking. Of course he's going to try to get as much for Artest as he can.

The best another team can do in a trade is offer picks on top of salaried players.

The only 'A' player we have that would match that is K-Mart. But then, Sac is going to have to give up 7 mil or so in complimentary players.

Simple math would include an undesirable contract of Kenny Thomas to make up that difference, something the Kings would look for HIGHLY in an Artest deal. I don't think he'll get 13 million but I do think he'll get around 10 million a year with his contract, and tell me this, why would the Kings send him at a discounted rate to the Nuggets who they play 4 times a year, when they could send him to the Knicks, Bucks, Heat, etc etc etc in the Eastern conference for a discounted rate? Any Western conference team is going to have to pony up quite a bit more in order to land him, that just makes logical sense.

[big123]

-= original quote snipped =-



Simple math would include an undesirable contract of Kenny Thomas to make up that difference, something the Kings would look for HIGHLY in an Artest deal. I don't think he'll get 13 million but I do think he'll get around 10 million a year with his contract, and tell me this, why would the Kings send him at a discounted rate to the Nuggets who they play 4 times a year, when they could send him to the Knicks, Bucks, Heat, etc etc etc in the Eastern conference for a discounted rate? Any Western conference team is going to have to pony up quite a bit more in order to land him, that just makes logical sense.

Why would any of the Eastern conference teams that don't have any chance do anything right now, give up anything for him, when they can get him in the offseason anyway. I think anyone who would be interested, would be a legit contender right now.

[eathy]

Everyone here all knows that the Nuggets are hopelessly contending right now, and we need more than what we have now to take the next step.

Artest is cheap right now, and IMO would be worth gambling for to see if he can put us to the next level.

The trade rumors i've read it's:
Send Eddie and LK or him with Kenny Thomas's bad ass contract.

[big123]

Everyone here all knows that the Nuggets are hopelessly contending right now, and we need more than what we have now to take the next step.

Artest is cheap right now, and IMO would be worth gambling for to see if he can put us to the next level.

The trade rumors i've read it's:
Send Eddie and LK or him with Kenny Thomas's bad ass contract.

That wouldnt work, so that rumor is way off.

[eathy]

i forgot to press enter.

edit:
- Send Eddie or LK
- or send Eddie + fillers and also take Kenny Thomas's bad ass contract.

[DNIsLeGiT]

I agree with some of the posters that say we should take the risk in getting artest,this team is in win now mode so they better do something before the trade deadline to get us further then the first round, Im 50/50 on giving up kleiza for a half year rental but sometimes you gotta risk it and now is about that time, i also like denver to get miller, we might benifit from that like utah did with korver and miller is better then korver.

Whatever we do we have to do it this year, if were still one and out come playoff time ai probably wouldn't want to resign with us(even though he said he will for cheap), camby isn't getting younger and probably only have 1 or 2 more good years left, we need to break up this core of martin,camby and nene, too many injury prone big men on one team, i know it's basicly impossible to move nene and kmart so that leaves camby but we need him so there goes that, i just hope next season the front office will stop day dreaming and think those three are ever going to stay healthy together.

With all that said i'll welcome both artest and miller if the price is right and i would love for us to make some kind of move to improve this roster.

[pickaxe]

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Simple math would include an undesirable contract of Kenny Thomas to make up that difference, something the Kings would look for HIGHLY in an Artest deal. I don't think he'll get 13 million but I do think he'll get around 10 million a year with his contract, and tell me this, why would the Kings send him at a discounted rate to the Nuggets who they play 4 times a year, when they could send him to the Knicks, Bucks, Heat, etc etc etc in the Eastern conference for a discounted rate? Any Western conference team is going to have to pony up quite a bit more in order to land him, that just makes logical sense.

Haha, no badass contracts needed here. We like Kenyon, Melo, Camby, AI, etc. but they are already taking up 90% + of the cap. If Artest's agent is going to be any bit as snarky about it as you are we can just wait until the off season and roll the dice with the talent we have.

We can also just find any player out there that can hit the three just to shore up our ranks on the perimeter shooting.

Yeah, it would leave us in the same position, without a premier perimeter defender. Why rent a badass contract AND gamble on Ron Ron.

[eathy]

According to the ESPN trade machine:
if we do:
Eddie + LK for Artest
Nuggets improve from 46 to 49 wins.

Eddie + JR for Artest
Nuggets improve to 50 wins.