Michael Porter Jr

[THE J0KER]

Can't lay out a case any better than this

https://milehighsports.com/hard-headed-the-stubborn-handling-of-michael-porter-jr-will-cost-the-nuggets-wins-and-more/

I talked about this even last season when Porter was just a rookie who playing only 15mpg while Barton played his career-best year. Even last year MPJ was clearly way better than Barton in per-36m stats, but Barton played DOUBLE more minutes than Porter (more than Jokic or Murray!) so it is not so obvious.

But I don't know why this article connecting Porter starter/bench status with Harris? MPJ status and playing time are connected with Barton and Millsap, not Barton and Harris. Gary Harris is shooting guard all the time. And Millsap gives enough reasons to be criticized as a starter too. The only way Harris can be involved in talks about MPJ status is eventually to make Barton SG starter and give MPJ starter-SF job. But with Porter as a starter, Nuggets have even more reasons to have one defensive specialist in starting lineup, which means Harris over Barton for sure.

BEST LINEUP: Murray-Harris-Porter-Green-Jokic
ALTERNATE1: Murray-Harris-Porter-Millsap-Jokic
ALTERNATE2: Murray-Harris-Barton-Porter-Jokic

[Maf]

Can't lay out a case any better than this

https://milehighsports.com/hard-headed-the-stubborn-handling-of-michael-porter-jr-will-cost-the-nuggets-wins-and-more/

I talked about this even last season when Porter was just a rookie who playing only 15mpg while Barton played his career-best year. Even last year MPJ was clearly way better than Barton in per-36m stats, but Barton played DOUBLE more minutes than Porter (more than Jokic or Murray!) so it is not so obvious.

But I don't know why this article connecting Porter starter/bench status with Harris? MPJ status and playing time are connected with Barton and Millsap, not Barton and Harris. Gary Harris is shooting guard all the time. And Millsap gives enough reasons to be criticized as a starter too. The only way Harris can be involved in talks about MPJ status is eventually to make Barton SG starter and give MPJ starter-SF job. But with Porter as a starter, Nuggets have even more reasons to have one defensive specialist in starting lineup, which means Harris over Barton for sure.

BEST LINEUP: Murray-Harris-Porter-Green-Jokic
ALTERNATE1: Murray-Harris-Porter-Millsap-Jokic
ALTERNATE2: Murray-Harris-Barton-Porter-Jokic

Listen I have no problem with idea of MPJ starting. BUT! MPJ has his minutes. After all he is 4th on our team in minutes per game. So it's not like he is glued to the bench. You know old saying Doesn't matter who starts the game but who finishes it. To me I prefer MPJ coming of the bench and having more shots available to him then starting and sharing the ball with Murray and Jokič. IDK, maybe you'll argue MPJ needs to improve chemistry with them but... I don't think player like Jokič needs it. He sees you he passes to you anywhere you might be on the court. And by the way, I know it IS small sample size, with MPJ starting Nuggets 1-3. With Barton starting 9-4. And yes, we should finally accept that coach Malone is kinda old schoold and demands from his rookies to earn their minutes. Have no problem with that.

About Harris... I won't pretend I am advanced stats guy. But if I look at them, are we really sure Garry Harris is our defensive stopper while Barton is bad? I mean go check them. DWS, DBPM, DRtg... And same for the last season. Problem is I can't say- but eye test tells different. Because it does not.

[skywalker33]

Can't lay out a case any better than this

https://milehighsports.com/hard-headed-the-stubborn-handling-of-michael-porter-jr-will-cost-the-nuggets-wins-and-more/

I talked about this even last season when Porter was just a rookie who playing only 15mpg while Barton played his career-best year. Even last year MPJ was clearly way better than Barton in per-36m stats, but Barton played DOUBLE more minutes than Porter (more than Jokic or Murray!) so it is not so obvious.

But I don't know why this article connecting Porter starter/bench status with Harris? MPJ status and playing time are connected with Barton and Millsap, not Barton and Harris. Gary Harris is shooting guard all the time. And Millsap gives enough reasons to be criticized as a starter too. The only way Harris can be involved in talks about MPJ status is eventually to make Barton SG starter and give MPJ starter-SF job. But with Porter as a starter, Nuggets have even more reasons to have one defensive specialist in starting lineup, which means Harris over Barton for sure.

BEST LINEUP: Murray-Harris-Porter-Green-Jokic
ALTERNATE1: Murray-Harris-Porter-Millsap-Jokic
ALTERNATE2: Murray-Harris-Barton-Porter-Jokic

Listen I have no problem with idea of MPJ starting. BUT! MPJ has his minutes. After all he is 4th on our team in minutes per game. So it's not like he is glued to the bench. You know old saying Doesn't matter who starts the game but who finishes it. To me I prefer MPJ coming of the bench and having more shots available to him then starting and sharing the ball with Murray and Jokič. IDK, maybe you'll argue MPJ needs to improve chemistry with them but... I don't think player like Jokič needs it. He sees you he passes to you anywhere you might be on the court. And by the way, I know it IS small sample size, with MPJ starting Nuggets 1-3. With Barton starting 9-4. And yes, we should finally accept that coach Malone is kinda old schoold and demands from his rookies to earn their minutes. Have no problem with that.

About Harris... I won't pretend I am advanced stats guy. But if I look at them, are we really sure Garry Harris is our defensive stopper while Barton is bad? I mean go check them. DWS, DBPM, DRtg... And same for the last season. Problem is I can't say- but eye test tells different. Because it does not.

Well, for me the idea of MPJ starting is two-fold. 1) He deserves it over Barton, regardless of his veteran presence. MPJ is the better player a he will be on the court at the end, regardless who starts. 2) I always prefer to be be in the lead rather than have to rally from behind, having MPJ in the starting lineup give us a better chance to build a lead rather than come from behing.

Now I do get building/keeping a strong bench but the way Barton has been playing, going up against 2nd unit player could definitely help him take advantage and rebuild his confidence, which given his recent play, appears to be in need of rebuilding. I also think that's a much better role for him on this team anyway, his ISO play can help spur rallys from the bench if needed.

[Maf]

I talked about this even last season when Porter was just a rookie who playing only 15mpg while Barton played his career-best year. Even last year MPJ was clearly way better than Barton in per-36m stats, but Barton played DOUBLE more minutes than Porter (more than Jokic or Murray!) so it is not so obvious.

But I don't know why this article connecting Porter starter/bench status with Harris? MPJ status and playing time are connected with Barton and Millsap, not Barton and Harris. Gary Harris is shooting guard all the time. And Millsap gives enough reasons to be criticized as a starter too. The only way Harris can be involved in talks about MPJ status is eventually to make Barton SG starter and give MPJ starter-SF job. But with Porter as a starter, Nuggets have even more reasons to have one defensive specialist in starting lineup, which means Harris over Barton for sure.

BEST LINEUP: Murray-Harris-Porter-Green-Jokic
ALTERNATE1: Murray-Harris-Porter-Millsap-Jokic
ALTERNATE2: Murray-Harris-Barton-Porter-Jokic

Listen I have no problem with idea of MPJ starting. BUT! MPJ has his minutes. After all he is 4th on our team in minutes per game. So it's not like he is glued to the bench. You know old saying Doesn't matter who starts the game but who finishes it. To me I prefer MPJ coming of the bench and having more shots available to him then starting and sharing the ball with Murray and Jokič. IDK, maybe you'll argue MPJ needs to improve chemistry with them but... I don't think player like Jokič needs it. He sees you he passes to you anywhere you might be on the court. And by the way, I know it IS small sample size, with MPJ starting Nuggets 1-3. With Barton starting 9-4. And yes, we should finally accept that coach Malone is kinda old schoold and demands from his rookies to earn their minutes. Have no problem with that.

About Harris... I won't pretend I am advanced stats guy. But if I look at them, are we really sure Garry Harris is our defensive stopper while Barton is bad? I mean go check them. DWS, DBPM, DRtg... And same for the last season. Problem is I can't say- but eye test tells different. Because it does not.

Well, for me the idea of MPJ starting is two-fold. 1) He deserves it over Barton, regardless of his veteran presence. MPJ is the better player a he will be on the court at the end, regardless who starts. 2) I always prefer to be be in the lead rather than have to rally from behind, having MPJ in the starting lineup give us a better chance to build a lead rather than come from behing.

Now I do get building/keeping a strong bench but the way Barton has been playing, going up against 2nd unit player could definitely help him take advantage and rebuild his confidence, which given his recent play, appears to be in need of rebuilding. I also think that's a much better role for him on this team anyway, his ISO play can help spur rallys from the bench if needed.

I see your arguments and I agree mostly. Yes, Barton's confidence really looks shattered. He can't make his drives, misses lay ups...
But I seriously doubt Malone will do this change in starting line up soon. Unless he starts to trust Hartenstein to give him minutes and Dozier is out. I mean you can live with our bench going small with MPJ at PF and Green at C. Mostly because MPJ is REALLY good rebounder. With Will opponents would destroy us on boards.

I just realized how funny is that couple of years ago we were pissed at coach Malone for playing his version of Twin Towers with Plums and Jokič and now we are pissed he goes small.

[The Rebel]

About Harris... I won't pretend I am advanced stats guy. But if I look at them, are we really sure Garry Harris is our defensive stopper while Barton is bad? I mean go check them. DWS, DBPM, DRtg... And same for the last season. Problem is I can't say- but eye test tells different. Because it does not.

If you cannot tell the difference between Harris and Barton on defense than you should pay more attention. Who is guarding the best offensive perimeter player on the opposing team to start the game and in the 4th quarter? Who is the guy that the opposing team is constantly running through screens to get their guys open? Who is the guy that when he is out the opposing team's best players go off?

Also while the tracking stats are far from perfect Harris allows 42.8% shooting while Barton allows 46.3% shooting.
https://www.nba.com/stats/player/203115/defense-dash/
https://www.nba.com/stats/player/203914/defense-dash/

Last year Barton allowed 45.7% while Harris allowed 40%
https://www.nba.com/stats/player/203115/defense-dash/?Season=2019-20&SeasonType=Regular%20Season
https://www.nba.com/stats/player/203914/defense-dash/?Season=2019-20&SeasonType=Regular%20Season

Year before that Barton allowed 50.9% while Harris allowed 39.1%
https://www.nba.com/stats/player/203115/defense-dash/?Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular%20Season
https://www.nba.com/stats/player/203914/defense-dash/?Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular%20Season

Harris while being on the better perimeter player has clearly been the better defender for the last 3 years.

[skywalker33]

Read on Twitter

[THE J0KER]

Read on Twitter

With Murray's slow start, Porter is Nuggets' 2nd best player, and with numbers like this, playing 33+ mpg he would be the best player of many NBA teams and even an All-Star contender already. But all this is not enough for Malone to give him a starter job or at least 30+ mpg!?


What is the point?

BTW with limited Green playing time, we do not make him cheaper to re-sign in Summer, but unhappy. We don't learn anything from Grant's case?

[skywalker33]

Read on Twitter

With Murray's slow start, Porter is Nuggets' 2nd best player, and with numbers like this, playing 33+ mpg he would be the best player of many NBA teams and even an All-Star contender already. But all this is not enough for Malone to give him a starter job or at least 30+ mpg!?


What is the point?

BTW with limited Green playing time, we do not make him cheaper to re-sign in Summer, but unhappy. We don't learn anything from Grant's case?

Not sure the Green comparison isn't a bit of a reach, feels like Green knows his role on a team but I do see your point. Green doesn't come across as the same type of player as Grant

[TunaFish]

Read on Twitter

With Murray's slow start, Porter is Nuggets' 2nd best player, and with numbers like this, playing 33+ mpg he would be the best player of many NBA teams and even an All-Star contender already. But all this is not enough for Malone to give him a starter job or at least 30+ mpg!?


What is the point?

BTW with limited Green playing time, we do not make him cheaper to re-sign in Summer, but unhappy. We don't learn anything from Grant's case?

He is playing him in crunch time and lately, he ends up with starter minutes. The bench does seem to be invigorated with MPJ and he meshes well with Greene. For now at least, Malone may not want to mess with the chemistry and MPJ is playing well. He continues to improve.

To my surprise Barton had one of his best showings this season in the first half of the Heat game. Barton goes back into the tank in the second half and MPJ replaces him for much of the game. This may be Malone trying to get his veterans going but he will allow MPJ to give the team a lift when needed.

[THE J0KER]

Spoiler:

Read on Twitter

With Murray's slow start, Porter is Nuggets' 2nd best player, and with numbers like this, playing 33+ mpg he would be the best player of many NBA teams and even an All-Star contender already. But all this is not enough for Malone to give him a starter job or at least 30+ mpg!?


What is the point?

BTW with limited Green playing time, we do not make him cheaper to re-sign in Summer, but unhappy. We don't learn anything from Grant's case?

He is playing him in crunch time and lately, he ends up with starter minutes. The bench does seem to be invigorated with MPJ and he meshes well with Greene. For now at least, Malone may not want to mess with the chemistry and MPJ is playing well. He continues to improve.

To my surprise Barton had one of his best showings this season in the first half of the Heat game. Barton goes back into the tank in the second half and MPJ replaces him for much of the game. This may be Malone trying to get his veterans going but he will allow MPJ to give the team a lift when needed.

Let's be clear about this, Malone's original "plan-A" before every game when all starters are healthy is to play MPJ under 25 minutes. The bizarre fact that MPJ played 3 overtimes so far in his 8 games and played once 40 minutes in a game when Murray was off masked Malones' real intention.

Porter playing time without OT minutes: 25 23 24 40 covid 20 25 28 25.
Sorry, but there is no logic that will justify bench role and bench minutes for a young player who plays like an all-star since the start of the season.

[TunaFish]

Spoiler:

With Murray's slow start, Porter is Nuggets' 2nd best player, and with numbers like this, playing 33+ mpg he would be the best player of many NBA teams and even an All-Star contender already. But all this is not enough for Malone to give him a starter job or at least 30+ mpg!?


What is the point?

BTW with limited Green playing time, we do not make him cheaper to re-sign in Summer, but unhappy. We don't learn anything from Grant's case?

He is playing him in crunch time and lately, he ends up with starter minutes. The bench does seem to be invigorated with MPJ and he meshes well with Greene. For now at least, Malone may not want to mess with the chemistry and MPJ is playing well. He continues to improve.

To my surprise Barton had one of his best showings this season in the first half of the Heat game. Barton goes back into the tank in the second half and MPJ replaces him for much of the game. This may be Malone trying to get his veterans going but he will allow MPJ to give the team a lift when needed.

Let's be clear about this, Malone's original "plan-A" before every game when all starters are healthy is to play MPJ under 25 minutes. The bizarre fact that MPJ played 3 overtimes so far in his 8 games and played once 40 minutes in a game when Murray was off masked Malones' real intention.

Porter playing time without OT minutes: 25 23 24 40 covid 20 25 28 25.
Sorry, but there is no logic that will justify bench role and bench minutes for a young player who plays like an all-star since the start of the season.

Sure there is. MPJ has just come back after missing multiple games. Barton has just started to snap out of his funk. Harris is in the same boat. Now is the time to get the vets going and Barton splitting time with MPJ coming off the bench seems to work. Until Malone thinks the club can handle a change at starter, why change anything?

I have only seen Barton play about one solid half so far this season. Therefore, I think his leash might be shortening so MPJ will be starting sooner rather than later. At the same time, if we can get Barton going, why not try. He could be a factor in the future.

[NuggetsWY]

With Murray's slow start, Porter is Nuggets' 2nd best player, and with numbers like this, playing 33+ mpg he would be the best player of many NBA teams and even an All-Star contender already. But all this is not enough for Malone to give him a starter job or at least 30+ mpg!?

BTW with limited Green playing time, we do not make him cheaper to re-sign in Summer, but unhappy. We don't learn anything from Grant's case?

Definition of insanity: doing the same thing repeatedly while expecting different results.

The Nuggets are winning right now, but clearly we are not playing at our best. Without a Summer League and without a other team activities for the new players and without a solid training camp and without a longer preseason schedule; adjustments need to be made during this unusual season. However, we all know Malone is slow to make changes. Let's see if he does make changes during February.

[THE J0KER]

I have no problem saying in a month when Porter playing his by far worst basketball and in a day when he is to be blamed for Denver losing game vs Boston where MPJ was shooting 0-8 that he is most probably the future all-star player.


Porter's career split per-36 minutes stats:

19-11 TS%59% (3p%-42%): 2019-20 before corona break
24-9 TS%70% (3p%-42%): 2019-20 bubble
17-10 TS%60% (3p%-38%): Playoff
19-8 TS%70% (3p%-50%): 2020-21 before February
12-7 TS%43% (3p%-22%): 2020-21 since February (7 games)

If you think it is not Malone to be blamed for killing the shooting confidence of an elite young shooter, look at Malik Beasley case which finished 2018-19 with an amazing 60%TS% for guards standards, then down to just 51%TS% in 2019-20 after being blacklisted by Malone, and then rises back to 59%TS% after the trade to Minnesota.

[skywalker33]

https://milehighsports.com/reaping-what-theyve-sown-the-nuggets-can-blame-nobody-but-themselves-for-the-struggles-of-michael-porter-jr/

Malone needs to be fired for HIS lack of development/culturing of MPJ, his own ego really has set this team back this year as he doesn't make an attempt to build as he wants to mold it into his vision, in essence trying to put a square peg in a round hole.

[NuggetsWY]

https://milehighsports.com/reaping-what-theyve-sown-the-nuggets-can-blame-nobody-but-themselves-for-the-struggles-of-michael-porter-jr/

Malone needs to be fired for HIS lack of development/culturing of MPJ, his own ego really has set this team back this year as he doesn't make an attempt to build as he wants to mold it into his vision, in essence trying to put a square peg in a round hole.

That's how Malone treated Murray too. I remember games where Murray was jerked real fast and usually to have Malone in his face. It didn't seem harsh but it still seemed like a short leash. Then again, that was because Malone was using Barton at PG a lot and since Porter isn't a PG --- oops, Malone likes Barton at SF too.

[FilNugsFan]

After his fine play against CLE, I hope MPJ has now realized that he's got the size and that he's too talented to be settling for spot up 3-pt. jumpers. He needs to cut to the basket more aggressively to try and get more open looks and higher percentage shots. If he does that efficiently, then Jokic and Campazzo would have a field day giving him the rock.

[NuggetsWY]

After his fine play against CLE, I hope MPJ has now realized that he's got the size and that he's too talented to be settling for spot up 3-pt. jumpers. He needs to cut to the basket more aggressively to try and get more open looks and higher percentage shots. If he does that efficiently, then Jokic and Campazzo would have a field day giving him the rock.

Well said and I think Porter and/or the coaching staff agrees. Porter is taking 50% of his shots from 3pt range and hitting those at almost 40%. If he doesn't take a 3, he tends to take his shot from 3 feet or less and he hits those at 80%.

[TwoStarz]

Why can’t the kid get a consistent role and minutes?!

Ffs Mike Malone

[skywalker33]

Not as long as Malone has hold of that leash

[NuggetsWY]

Why can’t the kid get a consistent role and minutes?!

Ffs Mike Malone

Two reasons
#1 Defense
#2 Barton - Malone favorite