Nuggets Trades

[THE J0KER]

Spoiler:

Personally, I'm interested in the creation of Denver Nuggets superteam for the next 2-3 seasons (until MPJ is under rookie contract and Jokic is not supermax).

We already have BIG3 next season in Murray-MPJ-Jokic, and because Murray is combo-guard and MPJ is combo-forward that "The 4th star" can be PG-SG-SF-PF in theory, but I strongly recommend the backcourt option as much more effective and balanced. Sixers make the too unbalanced roster in favor of the quality of taller players and it doesn't work as expected, while Lakers make a great strategic decision in redirecting James on PG spot, otherwise creating super-frontcourt line LBJ-AD will be the less effective and balanced roster.

Nuggets don't have any superb asset (Jokic, Murray, and MPJ are locked), our future draft picks are late first, and except Bol Bol, there are no attractive rookie contracts like we have in near past nor a cap space to take some bad contract too. But we still have the ability to create "The big package" for a very good player which is not underpaid in the current contract. To survive new "big star" (guard) contract together with two max contracts we already have, Nuggets obviously need to trade current SG starter Harris and former SF starter Barton, and best assets we can add to this two are Bol Bol and FRP (2020-HOU or 2021-DEN). So, Harris-Barton-Bol-FRP is that our "big package".

In a perfect world, some guard (or guard-forward) star under contract would unexpectedly be open for deals, like it happens in the near past with Kawhi, Butler, George, CP3... and if no free stars TOP50 players would be also enough great addition for a team which already formed BIG3. So, if we can't find a way to take all-star Beal, options like Jrue, LaVine, CJ McCollum, Isaac, Josh Richardson, Brogdon, Kelly Oubre Jr, Rozier, Hield... would create BIG4. Some of these guys were never parts of trade talks, but if we ready to offer that "big package" everything is possible.

The only successful team with a big 4 was the Warriors, and the only reason it worked is that Thompson is best off the ball and Green is a defensive specialist. The big problem is that 4 offensive stars end up being worse than 2, as guys struggle to get going and step all over each other. Guys like Lavine, McCollum, Brogdan, Richardson and the like all need the ball in their hands to be effective taking the ball out of Jokic and Murray's hands.

Oubre and Jrue are literally the only guys on your list I would have any interest in, and I am not convinced that Oubre is any better than Grant at what we need so I am not really big on him either.

By the way Hield would literally never get off Malone's bench, he is worse than Beasley on defense and less of an all around player. I would easily pass.

Reality is this team needs role players, guys who's games fit into roles and they understand those roles. That is how teams win championships, not packing the team with stars who do not fit together.

I actually agree with a concept, but guards defensive specialists are not available these days, and I think Harris is good and underrated in that department. But I still believe that 4th star doesn't need to be defensively specialist. Warriors dynasty worked because 3 players are 50%-40%-90% efficient. So, I agree Jrue is a more advanced option thanks to his defense, but pure guards shooters with something like 45-38-80 percentages would work too better than Harris which everything good he is doing in defense is damaged by 42%FG% 33%3p% percentages. That makes look our Beasley mistake for not signing that 40/3 deal in October even worse.

[skywalker33]

So, what do you think about the possibilities of acquiring Jaylen Brown from the C's ? Not as good a defender as Harris IMO but has continued his scoring prowess where Harris is going the opposite direction. Could we trade Harris , Bol and our 2020 1st ?

[Manolito]

Brown??? He is absolutely not available for a trade.

I don´t think we need to trade for anybody. This team ceiling is capped at the moment by GHarris, he is exactly what the team needs. Two seasons ago, he scored 18ppg with 49%FG and 40%3 and his elite defense. His trading market at the moment could not be lower, he would be a salary dump which cost at very best a first round pick. For that price, it is better to keep him.

A starting lineup with Murray, GHarris, MPJ, Grant and Jokic is a title contender the next 3 years if Harris is healthy.

I would try to move Barton looking for cap flexibility and a young 3D Shooting Guard (Beasley could have been that guy)

[skywalker33]

Brown??? He is absolutely not available for a trade.

I don´t think we need to trade for anybody. This team ceiling is capped at the moment by GHarris, he is exactly what the team needs. Two seasons ago, he scored 18ppg with 49%FG and 40%3 and his elite defense. His trading market at the moment could not be lower, he would be a salary dump which cost at very best a first round pick. For that price, it is better to keep him.

A starting lineup with Murray, GHarris, MPJ, Grant and Jokic is a title contender the next 3 years if Harris is healthy.

I would try to move Barton looking for cap flexibility and a young 3D Shooting Guard (Beasley could have been that guy)

While I can respect your opinion, I don't think that is ABSOLUTELY true, BOS seems to be willing to move anyone for the right deal.

And as is obvious right now, Harris seems to be more on the IR than in the starting line-up, and Brown seems to be what we want Gary to return to, so this appears to be logical IMO. I already know Gary's stats from two years ago, but we haven't seen those stats recently so until he starts reproducing that kind of production he's DEAD WEIGHT. Giving up a low 1st or two seems to be in our best interest if it can move us towards a championship. Most will concur, I am not a fan who likes to offer draft picks in trades as I know how we built this club but also not one who likes to pay big salaries for low production players either, which is what Gary is right now.

As for Barton, moving him to acquire cap space or move up in the draft has always been on my agenda.

[NuggetsWY]

So, what do you think about the possibilities of acquiring Jaylen Brown from the C's ? Not as good a defender as Harris IMO but has continued his scoring prowess where Harris is going the opposite direction. Could we trade Harris , Bol and our 2020 1st ?

I've always liked Brown and think the Celtics might be willing to make a deal - but Ainge is going to want a lot. I think he'd be a great fit with Porter & Murray (and of course that guy that plays center). Brown is a nice 2nd or 3rd option type and a total team player.

Give the Celtics their choice of Harris or Barton --- add Bol (I hate just typing that) --- and I think it's going to take at least two 1sts (and I wouldn't object to even that).

[skywalker33]

So, what do you think about the possibilities of acquiring Jaylen Brown from the C's ? Not as good a defender as Harris IMO but has continued his scoring prowess where Harris is going the opposite direction. Could we trade Harris , Bol and our 2020 1st ?

I've always liked Brown and think the Celtics might be willing to make a deal - but Ainge is going to want a lot. I think he'd be a great fit with Porter & Murray (and of course that guy that plays center). Brown is a nice 2nd or 3rd option type and a total team player.

Give the Celtics their choice of Harris or Barton --- add Bol (I hate just typing that) --- and I think it's going to take at least two 1sts (and I wouldn't object to even that).

I agree WY (and thanks for stimulating the conversations), it would take Harris, Bol and probably two 1sts. I usually don't advocate trading draft picks (especially since we've already traded away many 2nds already) but they would/should be late 1st given how many titles we will be winning .

Have to say I am inline with The Rebel, I think Bol will bring a lot of possibilities but in a somewhat limited capacity. I think Harris' defensive skillset will thrive in Steven's schemes and the C's seem to LOVE late round picks

[Manolito]

I totally respect your opinion, but an offer based on GHarris (or Barton) + Bol Bol + 2FRP for Jaylen Brown is really lowballing the Celtics.

The guy is 23, just signed a 4 years "friendly" contract, is going to be All Star a few seasons, has improved consistently every year and is a perfect fit in any team. I wish I were wrong, but realistically IMO I don´t see any reason why Celtics would accept that offer or any other that does not involve Jokic (not even MPJ for the injury risk).

[skywalker33]

I totally respect your opinion, but an offer based on GHarris (or Barton) + Bol Bol + 2FRP for Jaylen Brown is really lowballing the Celtics.

The guy is 23, just signed a 4 years "friendly" contract, is going to be All Star a few seasons, has improved consistently every year and is a perfect fit in any team. I wish I were wrong, but realistically IMO I don´t see any reason why Celtics would accept that offer or any other that does not involve Jokic (not even MPJ for the injury risk).

First, Bol showed in the RS that he has first-round talent, has the size and rim-blocking skills the Celtic need. Harris is still a strong defensive guard, perfect for Stevens schemes and Ainge LOVE multiple 1st.

And HOW do you claim a 4-yr $107MM contract is "team-friendly" ??? Also as of yet, feel free to correct me, has he ever been an All-Star ?? To claim he'll jump Harden, Westbrook, Lillard, Ja, Klay, or Curry, etc in the West seems like trying to justify your claim. Does he have that potential ?? Perhaps but unlikely....I don't see this offer as exact but not nearly as inept as you seem to portray it. However, I can see how your point about the C's not wanting to trade him, they do seem to love their wings and he has progressed each year (but didn't Harris until he got paid ??).

And remember, Mano, this is just discussion based Nuggets Trade thread to OPEN dialog, if you have some different trade suggestions, feel free to add, we can discuss the merits.

[The Rebel]

I totally respect your opinion, but an offer based on GHarris (or Barton) + Bol Bol + 2FRP for Jaylen Brown is really lowballing the Celtics.

The guy is 23, just signed a 4 years "friendly" contract, is going to be All Star a few seasons, has improved consistently every year and is a perfect fit in any team. I wish I were wrong, but realistically IMO I don´t see any reason why Celtics would accept that offer or any other that does not involve Jokic (not even MPJ for the injury risk).

First, Bol showed in the RS that he has first-round talent, has the size and rim-blocking skills the Celtic need. Harris is still a strong defensive guard, perfect for Stevens schemes and Ainge LOVE multiple 1st.

And HOW do you claim a 4-yr $107MM contract is "team-friendly" ??? Also as of yet, feel free to correct me, has he ever been an All-Star ?? To claim he'll jump Harden, Westbrook, Lillard, Ja, Klay, or Curry, etc in the West seems like trying to justify your claim. Does he have that potential ?? Perhaps but unlikely....I don't see this offer as exact but not nearly as inept as you seem to portray it. However, I can see how your point about the C's not wanting to trade him, they do seem to love their wings and he has progressed each year (but didn't Harris until he got paid ??).

And remember, Mano, this is just discussion based Nuggets Trade thread to OPEN dialog, if you have some different trade suggestions, feel free to add, we can discuss the merits.

I agree with Manolito, you are significantly under rating Brown and his value to the Celtics. They view him very similar to the way we view Murray, he is a key piece of their core that they are not going to trade for spare parts and late 1st round picks. It would take Murray or a similar level of player/prospect to get him and Bol is not that guy.

While I love Harris of 2 years ago, nobody is going to give him the value he had then currently either. Especially since he is out with another hip injury.

[skywalker33]

I had Harris in the trade for his defensive skills as well as he's about the same salary level is comparable to what Brown's is. I am interested to hear what other's would think what it would take to obtain him, or a talent of his level as I am getting DONE with Harris and his injuries.

[The Rebel]

I had Harris in the trade for his defensive skills as well as he's about the same salary level is comparable to what Brown's is. I am interested to hear what other's would think what it would take to obtain him, or a talent of his level as I am getting DONE with Harris and his injuries.

While I certainly would like other's opinion I don't understand your position on this at all. You are getting done with Harris, so why would any other team want him? He is out with another hip injury after already having hip surgery and just getting to the point of being productive on both ends and now he is out again. A hip surgery has ruined plenty of guy's careers, including Wilson Chandler's, but a few have recovered. Another hip injury so soon and he may be done as anything more than a backup defensive guy. Remember late last year and going into this season all the talk about Harris possibly being on a minute restriction or coming off the bench to limit his minutes? That tells me that something more is going on than we know, but even if I am wrong he has negative value until he proves he can still play. I consider him borderline dead money that you hope can come back and play a roll one day.


The one good thing about it is that we only have 2 years left on Harris, so while he may be a wash next season, the following season he will be an expiring and can maybe help fill in the roster at that point.

[skywalker33]

I had Harris in the trade for his defensive skills as well as he's about the same salary level is comparable to what Brown's is. I am interested to hear what other's would think what it would take to obtain him, or a talent of his level as I am getting DONE with Harris and his injuries.

While I certainly would like other's opinion I don't understand your position on this at all. You are getting done with Harris, so why would any other team want him? He is out with another hip injury after already having hip surgery and just getting to the point of being productive on both ends and now he is out again. A hip surgery has ruined plenty of guy's careers, including Wilson Chandler's, but a few have recovered. Another hip injury so soon and he may be done as anything more than a backup defensive guy. Remember late last year and going into this season all the talk about Harris possibly being on a minute restriction or coming off the bench to limit his minutes? That tells me that something more is going on than we know, but even if I am wrong he has negative value until he proves he can still play. I consider him borderline dead money that you hope can come back and play a roll one day.


The one good thing about it is that we only have 2 years left on Harris, so while he may be a wash next season, the following season he will be an expiring and can maybe help fill in the roster at that point.

So you're resigned to just paying him the $40MM ??? I would just rather try to move him than watch his rehab for the next 2yrs. My first thought is if he was hurt, why didn't he opt for surgery back in March or at least report it to the team so we could've brought a healthy player in ?? Right now he's a Cap Weight on this team and I usually like him I've been defending him until this event. But as is often said "The best ability is availability"

[The Rebel]

I had Harris in the trade for his defensive skills as well as he's about the same salary level is comparable to what Brown's is. I am interested to hear what other's would think what it would take to obtain him, or a talent of his level as I am getting DONE with Harris and his injuries.

While I certainly would like other's opinion I don't understand your position on this at all. You are getting done with Harris, so why would any other team want him? He is out with another hip injury after already having hip surgery and just getting to the point of being productive on both ends and now he is out again. A hip surgery has ruined plenty of guy's careers, including Wilson Chandler's, but a few have recovered. Another hip injury so soon and he may be done as anything more than a backup defensive guy. Remember late last year and going into this season all the talk about Harris possibly being on a minute restriction or coming off the bench to limit his minutes? That tells me that something more is going on than we know, but even if I am wrong he has negative value until he proves he can still play. I consider him borderline dead money that you hope can come back and play a roll one day.


The one good thing about it is that we only have 2 years left on Harris, so while he may be a wash next season, the following season he will be an expiring and can maybe help fill in the roster at that point.

So you're resigned to just paying him the $40MM ??? I would just rather try to move him than watch his rehab for the next 2yrs. My first thought is if he was hurt, why didn't he opt for surgery back in March or at least report it to the team so we could've brought a healthy player in ?? Right now he's a Cap Weight on this team and I usually like him I've been defending him until this event. But as is often said "The best ability is availability"

I am resigned to the fact that we are paying him for next year at least. We don't know what or when the injury happened, it could have been when he got to the bubble, but we know it happened. We know that he has been out for at least the last month, that is going to make anybody question his health. Nobody is going to be wanting to trade for Harris at this point. It will cost at least a 1st and taking back a bad expiring contract to get rid of him.

Take a look around the league. Who is on a really bad contract that fits what we need and is at least healthy now? Then tell me what it will take to convince them to take Harris who has his 2nd hip injury while convincing me I would rather take a chance on him over Harris?

I would rather take the risk on harris next year with a good backup than I would want to give up Harris and the picks/prospects it will take to move him and get something worthwhile. We aren't going to have cap space and keep Grant this summer whether we move Harris for free or not, may as well keep him and use trades and picks to improve. We have a ton of young talent on the roster, we need to change out a couple for the role players we need. Next year Harris is either a large expiring or a productive player, either way it only cost Stan money this year.

[skywalker33]

I suppose you have a point but I never believed Wiggins and his negative value contract/play would allow him to be traded yet sure enough.....

[The Rebel]

I suppose you have a point but I never believed Wiggins and his negative value contract/play would allow him to be traded yet sure enough.....

Wiggins was negative value but he was productive and you can at least see an argument that he could be turned into a good player. HE still has the potential. If you look into past trades even Bargnani brought back a 1st, 2 2nds, and expiring/bad contracts. Markellle Fultz brought back a 1st and 2nd with a marginal contract and he hadn't even played for 2 years. The 2nd team that gets a former 1st overall pick always seem to believe that they can dig out that talent and overpay.

[skywalker33]

I suppose you have a point but I never believed Wiggins and his negative value contract/play would allow him to be traded yet sure enough.....

Wiggins was negative value but he was productive and you can at least see an argument that he could be turned into a good player. HE still has the potential. If you look into past trades even Bargnani brought back a 1st, 2 2nds, and expiring/bad contracts. Markelle Fultz brought back a 1st and 2nd with a marginal contract and he hadn't even played for 2 years. The 2nd team that gets a former 1st overall pick always seem to believe that they can dig out that talent and overpay.

So are you arguing that ONLY former #1 overall picks can be reclaimed value in a trade ?? Wiggins could always score but on top of that terrible contract, he was/is one of the most inefficient scorers in the league. Fultz was also hurt and had to redo his shooting stroke, which he's still working on and was handsomely overpaid but the potential was still there. I may not have gotten the proper value in a trade for Brown (guess I was still fantasizing Harris could return to form) however, I did try and open it up to other options to improve the Nuggets by trying to utilize Harris in some trade capacity. Right now SG is the biggest question mark on this team and I have taken umbrage to his salary now becoming a weight around our throats, forgive me for wanting the best for our team. We don't have salary cap room, no more high draft picks and we still aren't a big FA draw destination

Good teams will always try to reshape their future, others will just wait to see what happens. While being patient has served us well in the draft, we don't have time to just watch Jokic and Co's primes go by IMO. Our core will still be in their prime but there are several other teams that will be improving as well while we're watching Harris (and Barton ?) eat away at our potential future.

[The Rebel]

I suppose you have a point but I never believed Wiggins and his negative value contract/play would allow him to be traded yet sure enough.....

Wiggins was negative value but he was productive and you can at least see an argument that he could be turned into a good player. HE still has the potential. If you look into past trades even Bargnani brought back a 1st, 2 2nds, and expiring/bad contracts. Markelle Fultz brought back a 1st and 2nd with a marginal contract and he hadn't even played for 2 years. The 2nd team that gets a former 1st overall pick always seem to believe that they can dig out that talent and overpay.

So are you arguing that ONLY former #1 overall picks can be reclaimed value in a trade ?? Wiggins could always score but on top of that terrible contract, he was/is one of the most inefficient scorers in the league. Fultz was also hurt and had to redo his shooting stroke, which he's still working on and was handsomely overpaid but the potential was still there. I may not have gotten the proper value in a trade for Brown (guess I was still fantasizing Harris could return to form) however, I did try and open it up to other options to improve the Nuggets by trying to utilize Harris in some trade capacity. Right now SG is the biggest question mark on this team and I have taken umbrage to his salary now becoming a weight around our throats, forgive me for wanting the best for our team. We don't have salary cap room, no more high draft picks and we still aren't a big FA draw destination

No there are plenty of guys that can reclaim some value, but former #1 overall picks are the ones that always seem to bring back a huge overpay in the 1st trade they are moved. Fultz was out basically 2 years, and still brought back 2 picks.

Others tried to tell you that you were way overvaluing the Nuggets package. If you think that there is even a chance for Harris to be what he should have been, than why would we trade him? No team is going to give full value for a guy who should be as good as Jrue Holiday at 25 years old? Harris has been out a month and every team in the league is going to want medicals. Given we were 1 of the few teams that were okay MPJ and Bol medicals. Right now the only way to trade Harris is to prove he is going to be able to come back in full health and be a productive player, if that is the case than who would you rather have at SG?

Good teams will always try to reshape their future, others will just wait to see what happens. While being patient has served us well in the draft, we don't have time to just watch Jokic and Co's primes go by IMO. Our core will still be in their prime but there are several other teams that will be improving as well while we're watching Harris (and Barton ?) eat away at our potential future.

I am all for reshaping the future, and I asked you before, who can you realistically get for Harris that would do a better job filling a role that he is amazing at? IF he is healthy enough to trade, than he is healthy enough to play so who are you getting that you would rather have then him?

Ultimately a healthy Harris is not easily replaceable. If he was healthy and was proving that he could return to the player he had been, than I could see the Celtics giving up brown for Harris, Bol, and a pick, hell I would not want to give that up if Harris was healthy.

[The Rebel]

I wonder if we could get Josh Richardson and a 2nd from the 76ers for Will Barton? They could use Barton's shooting and ability to create his own shot and we could use Richardson's defense with Harris's injury issues. They would have to add 1 of their 2 way or unguaranteed deals for it to work, but we could cut them immediately.

Then trade Morris for Chandler Hutchison and a protected future 1st.

If we Resign Grant we could use the MLE to get a proven backup C and the 2 picks to get a backup PG and another big that would give us

Murray/ Dozier/pick
Harris/ Richardson/ Hutchison
MPJ/ Hutchison/ KBD
Grant/KBD/ Bol/ Cancar/
Jokic/ MLE / Bol/ draft pick

[THE J0KER]

I wonder if we could get Josh Richardson and a 2nd from the 76ers for Will Barton? They could use Barton's shooting and ability to create his own shot and we could use Richardson's defense with Harris's injury issues. They would have to add 1 of their 2 way or unguaranteed deals for it to work, but we could cut them immediately.

Then trade Morris for Chandler Hutchison and a protected future 1st.

If we Resign Grant we could use the MLE to get a proven backup C and the 2 picks to get a backup PG and another big that would give us

Murray/ Dozier/pick
Harris/ Richardson/ Hutchison
MPJ/ Hutchison/ KBD
Grant/KBD/ Bol/ Cancar/
Jokic/ MLE / Bol/ draft pick

Josh Richardson is expiring next season because $10M per year makes him an underpaid player and he will use the player option in 2021 summer. And unfortunately, his real trade value is about Barton+FRP or Barton+Bol, not Josh+2nd for Barton...

Maybe we should focus on Jrue Holiday. We know he is available, and he will probably not use the player option in 2021 instead of his solid $27M salary. My offer would be Harris+Barton+Bol+#22 for Jrue+#39+#42+#60. Pels have so many assets after AD trade and previous draft, so 2020 three 2nd round picks don't mean anything to them, while Bol is potential all-rookie team next season and our Houston draft pick is still notable at #22. Of course, they will get in Harris and Barton two NBA starter-level players and compete for playoffs despite Jrue is gone. Nuggets will get near the all-star two-way guard, three 2nd rounders (Denver is lately most successful 2nd rounders picker with Jokic, Morris, Bol steals), and with Jrue in Denver will be for sure TOP5 ring contender next two seasons. The only problem I can see in such a deal is the Jrue Holiday injury history.

[NuggetsWY]

Maybe we should focus on Jrue Holiday. We know he is available, and he will probably not use the player option in 2021 instead of his solid $27M salary. My offer would be Harris+Barton+Bol+#22 for Jrue+#39+#42+#60.

I think it will take an over-pay to get Jrue. I'm okay with Harris+Barton+Bol and even the Houston 1st this year and our 1st next year. 2nds aren't that important. You can usually buy those.