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2017 Draft

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Re: 2017 Draft 

Post#361 » by NuggetsWY » Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:33 am

The Rebel wrote:
NuggetsWY wrote:
The Rebel wrote:http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/246224/Wolves-Expected-To-Pursue-Jrue-Holiday-George-Hill-Jeff-Teague

Twolves open to trading the 7th pick as well now. So that means the 1st, 3rd, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th, and 10th pick have all been rumored to be available this summer already. I know people say this is a great draft, but they have said the same thing for many years including last year, and I would say teams are showing they are not thrilled with some of the prospects.

I know Giles and Annouby both had injury problems, but prior to this year were rumored to be potential top 5 picks, but there were supposed to be a lot more good talent this year and it just does not seem to be true.

Teams like to say "great draft" because it gets the fans excited. :lol:

I think though this one isn't "great" in terms of potential superstars. Many players are talked about that way, but Fultz and Jackson seem like the only extremely likely to overachieve IMO.

I think teams are willing to trade down because the next 15 or so picks are relatively close in value.


Actually Fultz and Jackson are not that likely to overachieve either, both reportedly are great prospects but they both have big holes in their games. With Fultz reportedly being rather lackadaisical and Jackson's shot. Most see the best prospect as being Ball, but the reports of him showing up to his Lakers workout out of shape is a terrible sign. The draft this one reminds me of is the 2014 draft, especially with the projected number 1 overall pick being Wiggins who was thought to have the same issues as Fultz. While there are some good players from that draft, it was not nearly as good as was hyped prior to it. It could be argued that we ended up with 2 of the top 6 or 7 players from that draft picking 16th and 19th, and 2 of those that are better than Harris and Nurkic have been injury prone. I hope to hell we do not overpay to move up, and still like the idea of moving down and collecting a couple of prospects.

I saw part of one game with Ball. He seemed disinterested and his shot is terrible. I think he'll have trouble getting it off in the NBA.

Hard to argue with your view of the 2014 draft for sure. Moving up or not isn't real important to me. Please don't tell Skywalker but I'm sold on Anunoby (with a year of seasoning on the bench similar to Hernangomez). If he's not available at 13, they I'd be happy to trade down for 2 picks, especially if one is below #20 and the other is between #21 & #33 or so.
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Re: 2017 Draft 

Post#362 » by The Rebel » Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:14 am

NuggetsWY wrote:
The Rebel wrote:
Actually Fultz and Jackson are not that likely to overachieve either, both reportedly are great prospects but they both have big holes in their games. With Fultz reportedly being rather lackadaisical and Jackson's shot. Most see the best prospect as being Ball, but the reports of him showing up to his Lakers workout out of shape is a terrible sign. The draft this one reminds me of is the 2014 draft, especially with the projected number 1 overall pick being Wiggins who was thought to have the same issues as Fultz. While there are some good players from that draft, it was not nearly as good as was hyped prior to it. It could be argued that we ended up with 2 of the top 6 or 7 players from that draft picking 16th and 19th, and 2 of those that are better than Harris and Nurkic have been injury prone. I hope to hell we do not overpay to move up, and still like the idea of moving down and collecting a couple of prospects.

I saw part of one game with Ball. He seemed disinterested and his shot is terrible. I think he'll have trouble getting it off in the NBA.

Hard to argue with your view of the 2014 draft for sure. Moving up or not isn't real important to me. Please don't tell Skywalker but I'm sold on Anunoby (with a year of seasoning on the bench similar to Hernangomez). If he's not available at 13, they I'd be happy to trade down for 2 picks, especially if one is below #20 and the other is between #21 & #33 or so.


LOL, good luck with that secret. The thing for me is that I am really not sold on any of these guys, I trust the front office to draft well so if they move up I believe it is for someone they really want. If the pick is at 13 though I am not sold on any of them that are likely available. I also do not know how much difference there is going to be from the mid lotto to the end of the 1st round in talent which means you are probably as likely to get a good player after the lottery than you are at 10. So I want 2 shots to gamble with. I doubt the team considers it, but I just like the odds better with similar tier prospects.
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Re: 2017 Draft 

Post#363 » by U hova » Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:48 am

Would you trade Barton/Chandler/ basically whatever it takes outside of Murray Juan Harris Jokic for that Wolves pick? You never know what team is high on who so it's better to be safe than sorry about the talent.
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Re: 2017 Draft 

Post#364 » by skywalker33 » Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:58 am

U hova wrote:Would you trade Barton/Chandler/ basically whatever it takes outside of Murray Juan Harris Jokic for that Wolves pick? You never know what team is high on who so it's better to be safe than sorry about the talent.


I'd add Beasley onto that list of no-trades but after that I'd add anyone else on this roster, even take back a bad contract to get it done. I'm stoked to see Beasley in Summer League this year !!!
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Re: 2017 Draft 

Post#365 » by psimanic1 » Tue Jun 13, 2017 7:02 am

We should take Vlatko Cancar in 2nd round, he can play SF/PF, has nice 3pt shoot, and he is playing for Jokics former team so maybe we can strike gold once more..
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Re: 2017 Draft 

Post#366 » by NuggetsWY » Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:10 pm

psimanic1 wrote:We should take Vlatko Cancar in 2nd round, he can play SF/PF, has nice 3pt shoot, and he is playing for Jokics former team so maybe we can strike gold once more..

An interesting choice and I don't think I'd mind, but 2nd round picks are a crap shoot. Sometimes even 1st round picks are a pretty big gamble. Beyond that, who is available for a 2nd round pick is another crap shoot. But yeah, I like this choice.
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Re: 2017 Draft 

Post#367 » by psimanic1 » Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:19 pm




Had 40.7% from 3pt line last season. Didn't average much(~9pts), but he could be nice with Juancho at SF/PF..
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Re: 2017 Draft 

Post#368 » by skywalker33 » Tue Jun 13, 2017 2:54 pm

Cancar looks like a decent prospect, but they all look like decent prospects in their highlight reels.
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Re: 2017 Draft 

Post#369 » by NuggetsWY » Tue Jun 13, 2017 3:05 pm

skywalker33 wrote:Cancar looks like a decent prospect, but they all look like decent prospects in their highlight reels.

Yeah, but you've never seen my highlight reels. :lol:
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Re: 2017 Draft 

Post#370 » by skywalker33 » Tue Jun 13, 2017 3:21 pm

NuggetsWY wrote:
skywalker33 wrote:Cancar looks like a decent prospect, but they all look like decent prospects in their highlight reels.

Yeah, but you've never seen my highlight reels. :lol:


So there IS one ???? Mine lasted a whole 8 seconds :lol:
Texas Chuck wrote:I'd like to see Utah, and Denver lose


Exactly as I've been saying all along !!
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Re: 2017 Draft 

Post#371 » by NuggetsWY » Tue Jun 13, 2017 3:34 pm

skywalker33 wrote:
NuggetsWY wrote:
skywalker33 wrote:Cancar looks like a decent prospect, but they all look like decent prospects in their highlight reels.

Yeah, but you've never seen my highlight reels. :lol:


So there IS one ???? Mine lasted a whole 8 seconds :lol:

Well, I must admit, mine does not exist, but it would have been on one of those old Super-8 videos. Remember the days when not all NBA games were on TV? We only had 2 TV channels where I lived. It was a LONG time ago. 8-)
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Re: 2017 Draft 

Post#372 » by MHZ » Tue Jun 13, 2017 4:20 pm

skywalker33 wrote:
U hova wrote:Would you trade Barton/Chandler/ basically whatever it takes outside of Murray Juan Harris Jokic for that Wolves pick? You never know what team is high on who so it's better to be safe than sorry about the talent.


I'd add Beasley onto that list of no-trades but after that I'd add anyone else on this roster, even take back a bad contract to get it done. I'm stoked to see Beasley in Summer League this year !!!


Jokic is the only guy who's close to untouchable (if the Pelicans offer AD for him straight up, I do it, so he's not untouchable).

Harris and Murray are both foundational pieces you don't move unless you're getting something major back in return.

Juancho is very valuable as well, but my threshold drops from Harris/Murray. To be clear, I'd move him for Isaac and not think twice. I realize not everybody feels this way, but I'm inclined to be aggressive to get the guys who I can see starting next to Jokic for 10 years. With Juancho, I still don't know how that works defensively.

Beasley is not even on this radar, for me. I like him fine, but we know next to nothing about him given limited minutes, and he's something of a duplication of what we have in other guys. If he was a high-end defender, I'd have to elevate him, but we haven't seen that yet. If somebody values him like a high end prospect, or I can use him to get a guy with upside who fits what we have otherwise, I'm 100% doing it. To get Isaac, I'm gladly moving him.
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Re: 2017 Draft 

Post#373 » by skywalker33 » Tue Jun 13, 2017 4:41 pm

MHZ wrote:
skywalker33 wrote:
U hova wrote:Would you trade Barton/Chandler/ basically whatever it takes outside of Murray Juan Harris Jokic for that Wolves pick? You never know what team is high on who so it's better to be safe than sorry about the talent.


I'd add Beasley onto that list of no-trades but after that I'd add anyone else on this roster, even take back a bad contract to get it done. I'm stoked to see Beasley in Summer League this year !!!


Jokic is the only guy who's close to untouchable (if the Pelicans offer AD for him straight up, I do it, so he's not untouchable).

Harris and Murray are both foundational pieces you don't move unless you're getting something major back in return.

Juancho is very valuable as well, but my threshold drops from Harris/Murray. To be clear, I'd move him for Isaac and not think twice. I realize not everybody feels this way, but I'm inclined to be aggressive to get the guys who I can see starting next to Jokic for 10 years. With Juancho, I still don't know how that works defensively.

Beasley is not even on this radar, for me. I like him fine, but we know next to nothing about him given limited minutes, and he's something of a duplication of what we have in other guys. If he was a high-end defender, I'd have to elevate him, but we haven't seen that yet. If somebody values him like a high end prospect, or I can use him to get a guy with upside who fits what we have otherwise, I'm 100% doing it. To get Isaac, I'm gladly moving him.


That's totally fair, I just have a hard time subtracting from a core to get another core piece. While we're expecting a stronger core, it does increase the build process timeline IMO.
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Re: 2017 Draft 

Post#374 » by MHZ » Tue Jun 13, 2017 4:57 pm

Certainly. Which is why it seems unnecessary to look at Harris or Murray. Beasley still this season is going to have a hell of a time finding minutes. At least Isaac would slot in to 15+ minutes easily, especially if Juancho is moved.

These are not easy decisions at all. The difference between now and the last two summers is we have a guy we're building around as opposed to just throwing picks at the wall and hope one of them really hits. The hit has happened, so I think a shift in approach needs to take place to provide Jokic with the kind of talent around him to see this thing maximized. A defensive, rim protecting, versatile 4 is critical. I'd love it to be Isaac, but that seems like it's pretty much not happening, so then you see where else you can find one in the draft and free agency.
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Re: 2017 Draft 

Post#375 » by NuggetsWY » Tue Jun 13, 2017 7:45 pm

I think high IQ is more important than "rim protector". Teams force switches to get players out of position. IQ can adjust easier than athletic ability.
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Re: 2017 Draft 

Post#376 » by SoCalNuggsFan » Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:49 am

NuggetsWY wrote:I think high IQ is more important than "rim protector". Teams force switches to get players out of position. IQ can adjust easier than athletic ability.

So, with this thought process, let me ask you a question. There's a thread in the T&T section where we facilitate a Paul George to Cleveland trade and get Kevin Love. Love has been really good switching onto GS guards the last 2 finals, but he offers zero rim protection. Are you in favor of a love/Jokic pairing?
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Re: 2017 Draft 

Post#377 » by NuggetsWY » Wed Jun 14, 2017 12:00 pm

SoCalNuggsFan wrote:
NuggetsWY wrote:I think high IQ is more important than "rim protector". Teams force switches to get players out of position. IQ can adjust easier than athletic ability.

So, with this thought process, let me ask you a question. There's a thread in the T&T section where we facilitate a Paul George to Cleveland trade and get Kevin Love. Love has been really good switching onto GS guards the last 2 finals, but he offers zero rim protection. Are you in favor of a love/Jokic pairing?

Love is an IQ player. He has some athletic ability, no doubt. However, no one is going to call him the strongest big and yet consider his Minnesota days regarding his rebounding and low post offense. He looked like a muscle man, even against bigger players. He still plays that role part of every game for Cleveland. No one is going to claim Love is the quickest of players and yet he even played against Durant on some switches in this year's finals and he did fairly well - as well as anyone does against Durant.

He's an IQ player - he knows how to use his strengths and minimize his weaknesses. He has adapted his Minnesota style to fit in fairly well in Cleveland, even if lots of fans don't like him. He's effective, just consider his stats.

So yes, I would accept a Jokic/Love pairing. I do not think it's ideal simply because Love would be wasting his peak years with a team that is not ready to compete. Jokic would learn a lot from Love. Love would make a good backup center. Love would make a good starting PF. Jokic at the high-post with Love hanging out for the corner three and he is deadly there. Then imagine Love flashing across the paint with Jokic giving him a Jokic-classic pass - BOOM! Hmm, maybe I'd like this a lot for Denver.
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Re: 2017 Draft 

Post#378 » by psimanic1 » Wed Jun 14, 2017 12:05 pm

How many lotto picks did we workout? It's only 8 days till nba draft right?
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Re: 2017 Draft 

Post#379 » by The Rebel » Wed Jun 14, 2017 1:52 pm

There are rumors floating around from Darren Wolfson that Issac is not working out for anybody outside of the top 4, could have a promise.
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Re: 2017 Draft 

Post#380 » by MHZ » Wed Jun 14, 2017 2:46 pm

I don't think I'd reach too much into that. History has shown workouts mean very little, and when there's a top 8 or so, nobody is working out for those bottom teams. At 7 the last two years, we couldn't get anybody in for a workout in that range.

That said, I've always said he's a guy I envision rising. I'd take him over Tatum in a heartbeat.

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