Fixing the Nuggets (how to keep Melo)

[berserker]

I can fix Denver with one trade.

People may tell me there's nothing but an injury riddled frontcourt in Denver after this- but the talent is amazing, and it improves the depth. Denver gains significantly in both salary ramifications as well as talent (assuming they resign him), but it pains them to trade away the hometown hero, ........Chauncey. However, it KEEPS Melo in town....

DEN trades Chauncey/Balkman to Portland for Oden/Miller. Denver throws a pick if necessary.

Why for both teams? Denver gets a true center. You can run a lineup of Ty/JR/Melo/Nene/Oden with a bench of Miller/Afflalo/Harrington/Kenyon/Birdman. Denver weakens at the PG position, but retains a proven vet who passes well and can be a mentor to Ty (as though he needs one at this point). Denver gets the depth necessary to compete with the Lakers in the West, and still has Jr and Kenyon's salary off the books in the next year. A very solid core and would make Melo seriously reconsider leaving Denver.

Portland, on the other hand, may initially consider this trade ridiculous. However, it has merits - here's the main reason. Dre is not a championship caliber PG. Period. Don't get me wrong - he's a good PG - but while he's steady and a good passer, he doesn't scare anyone on offense. Chauncey, who can post, shoot 3's, and run the team as well as anyone - is a major upgrade and will complement Roy well. Denver can survive the loss with Lawson and Dre at PG. Having a lineup of Chauncey/BRoy/Batum/Aldridge/Camby (or Pryzbilla) is a still a damn nice starting 5.

However, they have two centers and Oden's value is at an all time low, considering his knee injuries and history. He's also in a contract year. If he demands too much, then the likely thought is that they could trade him for something of value. The Nuggets would likely have to extend Oden afterwards to make this deal work, but salaries could be worked out and they have some leverage due to his health. Denver would go further into salary cap hell at least for this year, that's a big detractor but I would do it for the right mix.

I think Denver would have to throw in a pick - I tend to lean toward a 2nd, but I would consider 2nd and a future 2nd as well. I think the value of Billups is too great to give up a first, even for Oden - BUT - even if it took a 1st, I'd still probably do it. Would hate it, but I think long term it would benefit the Nuggets.

There's no guarantee that Kenyon or Oden would be ready for the season opener, so this is a bit of a gamble for Denver (and actually for Portland too, since Pryzbilla is hurt). But again, with two centers already on the roster (btw, Nene's preferred position is at PF) Portland is more well equipped to lose Oden for something of great value to them, which I've stated above.

One trade can fix this team and place us in a good position for the future. A solid young core and expirings while maintaining a championship caliber team. Melo stays. Denver rejoices. Portland gets better, even without Oden.

Thoughts?

[The Rebel]

I would not even touch this, why would the Nuggets dump an all star and picks for Miller and Oden is less healthy then Kmart, Nene, or even Camby used to be. I don't see that making one bit of difference in Melo's decision, if anything it may make him want out worse. After all he has already dealt with 7 years of injured big men, and he knows adding Miller is going to just clog up the lane again.

[almost famous]

That makes us worse. And we throw in a pick? Pass...


Oden isn't a true anything.

[J Smitty]

Nope, your initial thought was pretty spot on...ridiculous for Portland. I can't see them trading Oden at all, let alone for a 34 year old PG. Obviously he hasn't lived up to the hype, but he's still been a very good player for them when he has been healthy. And with those injuries, the sample size, despite three years since he was drafted, is still very small, and he is still very young(allegedly). No dice for them.

I think you'd sooner be able to trade Chauncey for Andrew Bynum than you would that package.

[Thescout]

Melo is going to NY thats why there are no trades set with any other teams, Teams are afraid to lose players and then turn around and lose Melo at the end of the season, he have his mind made up where he wants to be and it is not about the money because if it was he would have signed there

[DaFan334]

Melo is going to NY thats why there are no trades set with any other teams, Teams are afraid to lose players and then turn around and lose Melo at the end of the season, he have his mind made up where he wants to be and it is not about the money because if it was he would have signed there

We know, we know, just like Lebron...

[DaFan334]

Andre Miller was more of a problem with Melo due to his lack of 3 point shooting and Oden just adds to the list of injury prone front court players we have.

[The Rebel]

Melo is going to NY thats why there are no trades set with any other teams, Teams are afraid to lose players and then turn around and lose Melo at the end of the season, he have his mind made up where he wants to be and it is not about the money because if it was he would have signed there

We know, we know, just like Lebron...

don't forget Chris Bosh, Joe johnson, jason Kidd, Rasheed Wallace, kobe, a prime shaq, Michael Jordan, and all the others that are heading to New York as soon as they are free agents.

[pickIBL]

The Nuggets aren't really broken. Especially with JR Smith on the block I'd like to see Larry Hughes signed if the team can. Then you have K-Mart and JR Smith to shop for a big man. The Nuggets would have DJ and Williams to hold down the fort until Birdman gets back, but they need to make a move to put someone alongside Nene.

I'm not sure all the possibilities out there to get that big, but I'm certainly open to them. But it really comes off as Melo wanting that dynamic PF on the roster. With 3 years left on Brand's deal you know the 76ers would be happy to dump his contract. It is a risk to pickup, but if Billups can sit down with Melo... talk to him about staying with the same team... and if adding Brand makes Melo want to sign an extension... I say do it. Or whatever big you can get that makes Melo sign an extension... even if the years on the deal are longer than you'd like.

[pickIBL]

just to finish my thought... Cleveland really ought to be dumping salaries on their heads if they can. So assuming Melo would stay if you took on a couple of contracts. You could add Brand and Varejao (JR Smith plus first). And it would look like this...

Nene, Bird, Mbenga
Brand, Varejao, Williams
Melo, Harrington
Afflalo, Hughes
Billups, Lawson, Carter

Some long deals in there, but I can't complain about that roster.

[The Rebel]

The Nuggets aren't really broken. Especially with JR Smith on the block I'd like to see Larry Hughes signed if the team can. Then you have K-Mart and JR Smith to shop for a big man. The Nuggets would have DJ and Williams to hold down the fort until Birdman gets back, but they need to make a move to put someone alongside Nene..

Hughes is a horrible fit, the guy can't hit outside shots, and is not half the defender he once was. There are much better options out there.

I'm not sure all the possibilities out there to get that big, but I'm certainly open to them. But it really comes off as Melo wanting that dynamic PF on the roster. With 3 years left on Brand's deal you know the 76ers would be happy to dump his contract. It is a risk to pickup, but if Billups can sit down with Melo... talk to him about staying with the same team... and if adding Brand makes Melo want to sign an extension... I say do it. Or whatever big you can get that makes Melo sign an extension... even if the years on the deal are longer than you'd like.

Brand is an even worse idea then Hughes the guy cannot get it done, and would just be a repeat of the Kmart contract. Brand is done, and the fact that there were rumors all over at the beginning of the summer that they were shopping him with the 2nd pick or Iggy all spring, yet were unable to move him just prove the rest of the league agrees with me.

[The Rebel]

just to finish my thought... Cleveland really ought to be dumping salaries on their heads if they can. So assuming Melo would stay if you took on a couple of contracts. You could add Brand and Varejao (JR Smith plus first). And it would look like this...

While I would have expected the Cavs to dump contracts, they have yet to even appear that they want to cut salary in the least bit. They moved a non-guaranteed West for a contract this year, showing they still expect to compete this year.

Nene, Bird, Mbenga
Brand, Varejao, Williams
Melo, Harrington
Afflalo, Hughes
Billups, Lawson, Carter

Some long deals in there, but I can't complain about that roster.

That roster is not as good as the current roster. The only player I like is Varajoa, but I don't see the Cavs starting their salary dumping by getting rid of their starting center.Fact is Brand is about the same level as KMart without the defense now. And Hughes would be as bad as bringing back Greg Buckner. Fact is the best way to improve the team is not to add a ton of contracts on declining players, as the Cavs did the last few years. All these deals do is ensure that Melo is going to leave, and puts us in continued cap hell after he does it.

The best way for the team to improve is to find teams wanting to dump a bad contract for part of Kmart's deal, and are willing to send a decent player on a decent contract or a solid pick as part of the deal.

[pickIBL]

I agree it is a bad idea to add salary until the Melo situation is solved. But to solve the Melo situation (meaning any chance to keep him) will probably involve adding salary. Brand (whoever)... pick your poison. However I am in favor of the culture change and the opportunity to dump the drama in moving Kmart and Smith. The issue here is what can be done to keep Melo. As an example... if he wants Brand (and will sign) you go get Brand.

I have a feeling Billups can bring him to the table... but I imagine he wants to see roster improvements to compete with the new Big 3, Lakers, Celtics, etc

[The Rebel]

I agree it is a bad idea to add salary until the Melo situation is solved. But to solve the Melo situation (meaning any chance to keep him) will probably involve adding salary. Brand (whoever)... pick your poison. However I am in favor of the culture change and the opportunity to dump the drama in moving Kmart and Smith. The issue here is what can be done to keep Melo. As an example... if he wants Brand (and will sign) you go get Brand.

I have a feeling Billups can bring him to the table... but I imagine he wants to see roster improvements to compete with the new Big 3, Lakers, Celtics, etc

Kmart was Melo's guest at his wedding, I don't see him being a problem outside of his injury problems, which you would be actually making worse by trading for Brand. Because not only has Brand been fighting injuries, but he is also on the decline, and on a huge contract for the next few years.

You want roster improvements, then you actually need to improve and not just tread water. Fact is that means you are going to have to give up good talent to get improvement meaning you have to trade guys like Chauncey, Afflalo, Lawson, and nene if you are to bring back talent without the idea I stated earlier of trading KMart for a bad contract and a young player. At the end of the day, I think the best option is to stand pat at this point, and just tell Melo you will rebuild the roster next year when you have flexibility and room on the cap to actually add players of significance that will help long term. If he don't like that you trade him, as we are not going to win a championship, or ever improve if we go adding contracts like Brand's or any other overpaid declining players while killing our flexibility to steal a really good free agent or two next summer.

[pickIBL]

I don't disagree. But the bottomline is Melo probably isn't going to be on the same page. And if you want to keep Melo you'll probably have to swing something for him to agree to an extension. I'm afraid the reality of the situation isn't what you'd like it to be.

No Melo and we are screwed regardless for a long time (in terms of contending). It was a long dry spell between Mutombo and Melo. We did have blips on the radar that turned out to be just that. You end up doing a deal and moving Melo for some young "big prospect" PF and you may just end up with the next Antonio McDyess. I'd rather not wait another decade to contend if we can avoid it.

[The Rebel]

I don't disagree. But the bottomline is Melo probably isn't going to be on the same page. And if you want to keep Melo you'll probably have to swing something for him to agree to an extension. I'm afraid the reality of the situation isn't what you'd like it to be.

No Melo and we are screwed regardless for a long time (in terms of contending). It was a long dry spell between Mutombo and Melo. We did have blips on the radar that turned out to be just that. You end up doing a deal and moving Melo for some young "big prospect" PF and you may just end up with the next Antonio McDyess. I'd rather not wait another decade to contend if we can avoid it.

Fact is none of the deals I have seen you mentioned are going to make us a contender. The only way I could see us moving towards contender status is to wait until next year, negotiate a deal with Chuancey where we cut him and the resign him for MLE type money, then use the cap space to go out and get a guy like Marc Gasol even if you have to overpay. Fact is that as long as we have a team full of bigs who are all 4-5 inches shorter then all 3 of the Lakers bigs we will never get past them, not to mention what the Jazz did to the Nuggets every time Nene left the court. Add that is if we even get that far, now I know that Chuancey was tired heading into the playoffs, but what Williams did to him, made me realize that we don't have the pieces at PG to stop those types either. Meaning we either have to do a rebuild around melo or find another piece.

As for McDyess, funny you mention him as he would be a great piece to have if he was in his prime. But the fact is that part of the reason that we took so long to rebuild is a combination of bad ownership, and the fact that Mutombo walked for nothing. Leaving the team with a whole lot of nothing but big contracts. Which is where we would be if Melo walks after we go out and add a ton of bad contracts hoping to convince Melo to resign.

[pickIBL]

Which is where we would be if Melo walks after we go out and add a ton of bad contracts hoping to convince Melo to resign.

I didn't suggest that. I suggest bringing on the contracts if we had an agreement from Melo (which I've stated and you know). What you seem to be missing is that what looks great on the books and on paper isn't reality. Carmelo Anthony is an actual personality you have to deal with and make happy before he flat out tells the media he wants to be traded to New York or LA, etc.

You talk about trading Billups which in theory I'm all for. But in practice the chances of keeping Melo and moving Billups are damn near zero. Now it seems Melo wants the team to add a dynamic post/PF type player. If Elton Brand or some other name is a big enough draw to get Melo to sign that extension you've got to make the deal.

Fact is (I'm sorry Alex English and all my other favorite Nuggets) we've never had anyone as good as Melo in the history of the franchise, so the team needs to pull out all the stops.

[The Rebel]

agreeing to sign the contract under conditions and actually signing the contract is 2 different things. Hell the Cavs let lebron have pretty much the final say in all their moves for years, did that stop him from bailing the 1st chance he got? melo is not the one that should be making Gm decisions, and quite honestly if a guy like Brand is what it takes to make him happy, he is too dumb to be making those decisions. I mean honestly can you even convince yourself that if you were Melo you would want a guy like Brand, after having to deal with ownership constantly being handcuffed due to having an injury prone PF. Brand is a horrible fit and well past his prime, just like any other player of that sort. Fact is an extension does not mean that Melo will be here forever. He can just as easily come out and demand a trade in 2 months when he figures out Brand is not only not a difference maker these days, but is another cap killer. Fact is you do not win by making panic moves, and adding Brand or anyone else like him is just that a panic move.

As for Melo being the best player in our history, I agree, but I also think the Nuggets only goal should be to win a championship, you do not win a championship by making short term moves, with the fear that your franchise player may be upset with you. The only time that has worked in the history of the league was with Jordan, and even then Jordan did not have total control, and only a voice in the decisions.

[pickIBL]

Again, I think you might be missing out on reality a little bit. You are right the cavs let Lebron have special treatment and walk all over them. They had a coach that catered to him, they let his "team" do whatever, stupid pregame clowning, oh man it is a long list.

But to also be fair franchise players have major input on GM moves. Something you seem to be missing entirely. Again my point of view is you give Melo more input on condition that he signs an extension. In theory, let's say Melo wants Elton Brand. Ok look Melo, the 6ers will take Kmart for Brand straight, but Brand has a long contract so we can't risk being loaded down with contracts if you aren't sticking around... because otherwise we'd rebuild. If you want to stick around in Denver and sign an extension we'll then offer the 6ers Kmart for Brand.

Now would I trade Brand for Kmart straight up? Nope, I really wouldn't. If the years were the same I totally would... especially with Kmart currently injured. Its just a high risk deal... a deal... LIKE OTHER HIGH RISK DEALS... I'd only do if Carmelo signed an extension.

So the real question is would you trade the expiring Kmart for Elton Brand or some other long term contract that Melo thought he could win with... if Melo agreed to sign an extension in advance. If your answer is no you aren't a very good GM. It not just about what looks good on paper... you've got to deal with the stars in the NBA.

And if you haven't noticed elite players (former players) make bad personnel choices all the damn time.

[The Rebel]

does Kobe make the personnel decisions in LA? Do you think Pierce made the decisions in Boston? What about KG in Minny? Duncan in SA? Do you think any of the guys on the Pistons made the decisions on moves in Detroit? How much input do you think Wade had into the championship team in Miami? Did Shaq ever make the decisions anywhere? Fact is there are plenty of articles quoting Jordan and Pipped about the moves the Bulls made while they were there. While they all have some input, no team gives them the say on what moves they make, the minute they do they start making moves like adding a way overpaid Ariza to the team. Or trading their flexibility for a Jamison because Lebron chose him over Amare and losing Hickson. Fact is it is fine to give the players the impression that they have some control, but to actually give them that control, does not and has never led to championships. I personally would rather the Nuggets do the same thing the Lakers did with Kobe, and tell him to shut up and play or trade his ass, then to give him control of moves that the franchise makes.

As for whether that makes me a good GM, considering RC Buford, Danny Ainge, Pat Riley, Joe Dumars, and Mitch Kupchak have all made their own decisions regardless of what their stars wanted, and have won the last championships 10 championships, while guys like Danny Ferry and Bryan Colangelo spent the last several years trying to make their stars happy doing whatever they asked and are still without championships, then I guess I will be the bad GM like the guys who continue to wins championships, and you can be the good GM that either just lost their job or will soon.