Thaddeus Young/Shane Battier

[legendarywalton]

Great and knowledgeable RealGM board, please tell me why Thaddeus Young isn't our priority after signing Nene and Afflalo? Here are my thoughts:

28.8m committed
-6.26m Harrington amnestied (that long-term contract is horrendous even if it fits this year)
+14m Nene resigned for 4 years 56m
+8m Afflalo signed for 4 years 32m
+.9m Gary Forbes offer sheet
+1.4m Jordan Hamilton
+1.2m Kenneth Faried
48.04m cap number

So we've got roughly 10m to work with and the following lineup:

Miller/Lawson
Afflalo/Forbes/Hamilton
Gallinari
Nene/Faried/Andersen
Andersen/Mozgov/Koufos

To me the only logical spot to shore up is the 3 (playing Miller/Lawson at the same time would allow Afflalo or Hamilton to rotate into the 3 but I think we'd burn out our only viable 1's) followed by a 5 to 7 min PG.

I thought about Tayshaun Prince in this spot, but I think he'll go just outside our range and I'm not sure about paying him 10m in his 35 year old season.

My ideal would be to offer Thaddeus 7 or 8m per, because the Sixers currently have about 12m in cap room and that should be too rich for their blood. My question is whether or not you guys think he's worth it. It's really tough to equate efficient players and their NBA salaries because it seems like most guys are getting handed 5 or 6m if they can play as 6th or 7th guy on the team, but I think he would definitely be worth it.

Outside of Thaddeus, only Battier seems to fit our need, but I'm not sure if I'm comfortable with 5 or 6m going to a soon to be 34 year old that plays as hard as he does. I wouldn't be upset if this happened, but I wouldn't be thrilled either (unless our defensive revolution continues and we start to truly lock down our opponents).

I do wonder if we spend to the cap if we amnesty Harrington. Kroenke seems to be quite spendthrift with his Colorado sports enterprises now that he's in the high stake game of English Premier League Football and the NFL with the Rams. What does everyone think about this plan?

[The Rebel]

Andersen is not a starting center, hamilton is more of a SF, and forbes can also play SF. The Nuggets need a starting quality big, even if they resign Nene, no reason to overspend on a backup SF.

[patrol345]

If nene bolts I think we would have an interesting team if we signed young, and maybe deandre jordan, which I think we could get both for about 2 million more than what nene is gonna cost. Young plays sf/pf and is 6'8 so we could definatly use him at pf some, he is only like 22. I think we should be targeting players around that age for a fast semi-rebuild instead of a 30 year old 15mil per year center (I wish the FO could pull off a sign and trade to get an extra 2012 pick for nene personally). can you imagine in our training camp young/faried/koufus competeing for the starting pf spot, along with jordan/mozgov/koufus/bird for the starting center spot.

lawson/aa/gallo/young/jordan
dre/forbes/hamilton/faried/mozgov(koufus)

thats a heck of a young talented team with picks to add more. you gotta spend 58 million anyways it might as well be on young talent instead of old-aging talent.

[The Rebel]

I really do not understand the fascination with lesser skilled athletes, personally I want the higher skilled players, role player athletes can be found later. Let someone else develop with the whole potential that will never fully develop later.

Amnesty harrington.

My preference if for the Nuggets to sign and trade Nene to the Rockets for Patterson and chase Budinger with minimal filler. Leaving $27 million in cap space

Resign Afflalo & Forbes

Then throw a big deal at Marc Gasol trying to force Memphis into a sign and trade for the TPE and a future 1st.

Trade Andersen to a someone like the Lakers for a late 1st round pick and their TPE.

If you get gasol then you can go with a team of
Lawson/ Miller
Afflalo/ forbes/
Galinari/ Budinger/ Hamilton
Patterson/ Faried
Gasol/ Mozgov/ Koufos

Plus the Nuggets would still have the rights to Chandler, Jr, and Kmart, with at least $11 million left of TPEs, or $7 million of cap space if they renounce JR and Kmart, and a good young team with room to grow.

If you don't get Gasol, then I would blow it up.

I would trade Galinari to the Clippers for the Twolves pick
Trade Miller for a bad contract and a good 1st round pick in 2012 or 2013
Trade Andersen for a late 1st round pick.
then use the TPE to take back 1 or 2 year bad contracts with picks.
Keeping the rights to JR, Kmart, and chandler for future options when they get back from China.

[legendarywalton]

Rebel, what's the thought behind completely blowing this thing up if we don't get Gasol? Do you think the only way to compete is to pick within the top 10 for 3 years and nail all of those selections? Personally, I thought we were very close to finding the formula for extended success last year, mostly because there was no deeper team in the league and our defensive rotations were really improving. I understand the argument that you can't win a championship without a top 10 player, but I don't know if any of our younger core have really found their ceiling yet.

[The Rebel]

Rebel, what's the thought behind completely blowing this thing up if we don't get Gasol? Do you think the only way to compete is to pick within the top 10 for 3 years and nail all of those selections? Personally, I thought we were very close to finding the formula for extended success last year, mostly because there was no deeper team in the league and our defensive rotations were really improving. I understand the argument that you can't win a championship without a top 10 player, but I don't know if any of our younger core have really found their ceiling yet.

I am tired of mental masturbation that the last 7 years have been, I am still a big believer that you need a good big/post presence, nene is okay, Gasol would be great, but without someone at least as good as Nene, the rest is a waste of time. Dallas won because of the problems with guarding Dirk in the mid post, Shaq and Duncan have all those titles because of the problems created by Dirk, When KG started declining so did the Celtics, the Lakers have Kobe, but Gasol, Odom, and Bynum are just as important and possibly more important. Hell the heat with 2 of the top 5 players in the league, and 3 of the top 15 could not overcome a team with a bunch of decent role players, and a huge post presence on both ends between Dirk and Chandler. for all the hype that Durant and Westbrook get, the thunder did not take the next step until ibaka did, and they added Perkins.

You need good bigs to be succesful, and the Nuggets have no proven good bigs, and there is really only one outside of Nene on the market. So my feeling is if you can get one in free agency then great, if not then save the money and try again later, may as well utilize the draft at the same point to get the best players you can while you search for your bigs.

[legendarywalton]

With rookie contracts rolling on a two year basis (third year option I believe), you'd have to start timing your cap space with the first legitimate center propsect in the draft. Is Andre Drummond that guy? No elite post presence players really come to mind in this upcoming draft class, so we basically have to build from the outside in. Do we just write off these seasons until that big falls in our lap? The front office has turned over substantially, but we have historically drafted so poorly, and the draft is at best a 50/50 proposition. That's the only reason I feel like you should overspend on Nene/Gasol. With the guaranteed spend, you have to pay that money out to someone, and it might as well be a big.

[The Rebel]

With rookie contracts rolling on a two year basis (third year option I believe), you'd have to start timing your cap space with the first legitimate center propsect in the draft. Is Andre Drummond that guy? No elite post presence players really come to mind in this upcoming draft class, so we basically have to build from the outside in. Do we just write off these seasons until that big falls in our lap? The front office has turned over substantially, but we have historically drafted so poorly, and the draft is at best a 50/50 proposition. That's the only reason I feel like you should overspend on Nene/Gasol. With the guaranteed spend, you have to pay that money out to someone, and it might as well be a big.

If you can get nene or Gasol you do it, but this building outside in, is exactly how the Kings, Pacers, 76ers, nets, and all the other treadmill teams get into trouble. they have decent outside players, but never seem to get that really good big until they blow it up years later.

[youngthegiant]

With rookie contracts rolling on a two year basis (third year option I believe), you'd have to start timing your cap space with the first legitimate center propsect in the draft. Is Andre Drummond that guy? No elite post presence players really come to mind in this upcoming draft class, so we basically have to build from the outside in. Do we just write off these seasons until that big falls in our lap? The front office has turned over substantially, but we have historically drafted so poorly, and the draft is at best a 50/50 proposition. That's the only reason I feel like you should overspend on Nene/Gasol. With the guaranteed spend, you have to pay that money out to someone, and it might as well be a big.

If you can get nene or Gasol you do it, but this building outside in, is exactly how the Kings, Pacers, 76ers, nets, and all the other treadmill teams get into trouble. they have decent outside players, but never seem to get that really good big until they blow it up years later.

agree, although i personally do not want to see nene in a nuggets uniform any longer. we need to pry gasol away from memphis or do a S&t with the rockets or the warriors.

[legendarywalton]

but this building outside in, is exactly how the Kings, Pacers, 76ers, nets, and all the other treadmill teams get into trouble

My point was that unless you have a legit 5 targeted in the draft, what are you supposed to do? Continually trade away your picks and sign retread veterans? We've been down that road before, and I don't think that's the answer. You have to accumulate assets and maintain cap flexibility so you can pull off a deal for that legit 5 if you're not in position to sign them. Maybe that makes it worth taking a lottery flyer on Oden and still offer Nene the max.

[The Rebel]

but this building outside in, is exactly how the Kings, Pacers, 76ers, nets, and all the other treadmill teams get into trouble

My point was that unless you have a legit 5 targeted in the draft, what are you supposed to do? Continually trade away your picks and sign retread veterans? We've been down that road before, and I don't think that's the answer. You have to accumulate assets and maintain cap flexibility so you can pull off a deal for that legit 5 if you're not in position to sign them. Maybe that makes it worth taking a lottery flyer on Oden and still offer Nene the max.

I agree you build assets, but I disagree that you build those assets by signing restricted free agents to deals that their current team will not match, unless that player is exactly who you need to take the next step. Under Issel and other gms throughout the 90s, the whole go out and overpay for someone else's young players and try to build through free agency around guys like Mutombo and Mcdyess was always the plan. I have yet to see that tactic really work for anyone outside of the Heat, and even they did not win the championship yet.

the problem has always been the Nuggets get one or two good young players, they run out and sign every free agent they can find, filling out the roster with a bunch of role players, and the hope that 1 or both of those players can become superstars,

the Nuggets need to use patience to build it right, otherwise they become a treadmill team. My idea is to use the cap space only on good skilled bigs in free agency, if that does not work, then you can use the cap space to build your assets through other teams salary dumps, while you continue to draft the best player available. Both Memphis and OKC did it that way, the Nuggets started to under Kiki (before they jumped the gun signing everybody they could in 2003 and then overpaying a bad knees Kmart in 2004), it works if it is done right.

I would rather the Nuggets suck for the next 2 or 3 years, trading their young role players for good picks, and bringing in those players, allowing them to develop for those 2-3 years, and then make trades and free agent signings to fill the holes, when you have several young players that can grow. adding a couple of overpaid athletes just because they may help us win 45 games and narrowly make or miss the playoffs is not the answer any of us should be looking for.

[legendarywalton]

I agree you build assets, but I disagree that you build those assets by signing restricted free agents to deals that their current team will not match, unless that player is exactly who you need to take the next step.

Gotcha, I must have misinterpreted the argument. I thought you were saying it wasn't worth drafting perimeter talent, when you're saying we shouldn't sign restricted free agents that are young, athletic and play the perimeter.

Can't drafting those players derail the plan to land a franchise big man? Or are you envisioning a Houston Rockets type plan where you collect enough talent to swing a deal for a Center?

[The Rebel]

I agree you build assets, but I disagree that you build those assets by signing restricted free agents to deals that their current team will not match, unless that player is exactly who you need to take the next step.

Gotcha, I must have misinterpreted the argument. I thought you were saying it wasn't worth drafting perimeter talent, when you're saying we shouldn't sign restricted free agents that are young, athletic and play the perimeter.

Can't drafting those players derail the plan to land a franchise big man? Or are you envisioning a Houston Rockets type plan where you collect enough talent to swing a deal for a Center?

Either way, you draft what you can get, hopefully you find some good young bigs, but if you find a trade that is worthwhile for a big, or even find a good one as a free agent then you do the deal.

[youngthegiant]

watching some of the highlights, i actually like how t. young plays. great athlete who runs the floor. would be a perfect fit on the nuggets playing next to ty.

[steelmanron]

104.3 The fan reporting a source says the Nuggets will offer Thad Young a contract. Suppossedly starting at around 10 million a year. Anyone hear anything else ?

[youngthegiant]

haven't heard that but since nene is about to go to the nets we should throw some money at deandre and thaddeus young and see what happens.

[DaFan334]

Looks like Thaddeus is going back to the Sixers, so we can cross another target off the list.