dropBHOmbs wrote:The Rebel wrote:Horford is a meh player? A guy who puts up 15 and 9.5 with a ts% of 58.7% with solid defense at 25 years old is a meh player? I think most basketball people would love to have a less injury prone better version of Nene, add in the fact that Horford has always done it on a much slower paced system then Nene has ever played in and Horford is a much better version. Anybody with real knowledge about basketball does not see a guy who puts up those kind of numbers as a meh center, not to mention he is actually a PF, that has been playing out of position.
Thats pretty MEH, I know he puts up great numbers but he is the best role player in basketball and not much more. I would much rather trade for Millsap than Al Horford. Horford has no upside, dont try and sell it like he does. Nene is a better post scorer than Horford, which IMO is our biggest need at pf/c. Horford is a very, very nice mid range shooter, but the guy needs to be assisted a ton to score as efficiently as he does. Awfully convenient that you didnt mention the number of games Horford played in this year... Also if he is a PF playing at C, then he would still be a PF out of position starting next to Faried.
sure Horford is a role player, but what do you think Gallo is? As for no upside, how is it a guy who has been in the NBA 5 years missing most of his 5th year has no upside, but a guy who has been in the league 4 years has a ton of upside? hell there is nothing to say that Gallinari's injuries especially his back do not start to affect him long term, and his upside and career become very limited.
As for being a jump shooter, I will agree, and I also agree that a guy with a back to the basket game is mandatory, but a team needs both, a big who can pull a defender outside of the paint a few feet, and a guy who can punish teams in the paint, right now they have neither. Meanwhile you have Gallo who is a solid player, but he is basically average at everything but scoring where he is just above average, he is a 15 ppg scorer as the supposed primary option, there are plenty of those guys around that can play SF, and do not cost a fortune while sitting on the bench. Horford is a step in the right direction, I would much rather have a good big on both ends, as opposed to a good sf, small forwards are much easier to find, and much less important to winning teams.
Now I hope you are joking by saying Horford would be the starting center next to Faried, I wish I was half as sold as everybody else is on Faried. He was said to be one of the most NBA ready players in the draft, with limited upside, and I can see where that came from. Not to mention the guy is a piss poor defender, sure he gets the highlight plays on both ends, but when our guards and small forwards are constantly trying to protect the paint because all our bigs suck at it, then I would not say a single big was guaranteed to be the starter next week, let alone next year.
dropBHOmbs wrote:As for Brand, are you kidding me? He is an 11 and 7.5 player with a ts% of 51.8% (55% is considered average), and his defense is mediocre at best. The guy is past done, and is not worth signing to a contract. As for McGee and Chandler, neither one of them are all that good, and the fact of the matter is that I would not even resign mcgee for the contract he is likely to get this year, he sucks on defense, really is not all that good on offense, and is overrated because he can block shots. Chandler at this point is beginning to look borderline overpaid at this point, even only making $6 million a year, if anything his value has tanked since the Melo deal last year, since his numbers have went to hell and his game as a whole has been exposed.If you build a team around guys like that not only do you have a high payroll, but you can expect to be a late lotto team for a long damn time.
I feel Brand would be a good, free ('cept the amnesty bid) PF scorer off the bench or starting. I get that he is not incredible, but IMO serviceable and provides post scoring, a desperate need even if he only plays 10 mpg.
Brand is not exactly servicable this year, and you think the Nuggets need to spend money to bring in a guy for a year, that is not a long term fit, and is not a difference maker. What makes you think the Nuggets are going to waste money like that? what makes you think it is worth the effort? And why is he a good fit on a young team?
dropBHOmbs wrote:No Chandler is not becoming a bad contract. Give the man some time before you judge. IMO he will be integrated into the Nugs ONLY after an offseason. I view him as a role player and defensive specialist with some offense to keep the D honest. He can play 2, 3, and 4 but I view him as the perfect stretch 4. He can defend post players, but they are not usually quick enough to hang with Wil. 6.4 mil is a steal and its less than many comparable players. I mean... Ariza, Matthews, Childress are all making more money. Tony Allen makes less money, but most players at Chandler's level are making more money.
After an offseason? Why is it that he should get a full offseason to prove he is not that good? The Nuggets system especially on offense is not that hard to learn. this guy is overated for some damn reason, and it shows now that he is out of d'antoni's offense. Add in the injuries and the horrific playoff series he had last year and I would dump him by the draft, for whatever I could get.
As for the players you are comparing him to, Ariza and Childress are both considered bad contracts by most knowledgable fans, and Mathews is still living off the hype of last year, another bad year like this and nobody will want him either. fact is when you are on a fast paced team that emphasizes your supposed strengths on defense and allows you freedom on offense, it should not take a full offseason to figure it out, if it does then he is too damn stupid to have on the floor then.
dropBHOmbs wrote: I agree they are having money issues, but a signed and traded McGee and adding Chandler is not going to solve their problems, the 2 of them combined will end up making much more then Horford, which could cause them to lose Josh Smith. You spend a paragraph + some talking about their money problems, and then continue to say they should do a deal where they will end up adding $3-4 million a year in payroll for 2 guys who are not really worth the money for an already bloated payroll.
The two combined would make just more than Horford. Horford is making 12 by some reports and 13+ by others. If McGee gets 10m (he wont) then the hawks would have an extra 4m between 2 players. I see McGee getting a 5yr/42m contract. 8.4m on average. Anyway, I dont really want Horford if we have to give up pieces.
How much do you think the hawks will have to spend on another big? if they kept Horford they would only have to add a 4th big and those cost about the minimum these days.
dropBHOmbs wrote:Maybe you missed it earlier, but guys like Dalembert and and Kwame Brown get 7-8 million a year, guys like deandre Jordan get $10.5. Even with the mental issues, Javalle puts up much better numbers then Jordan ever has, McGee is a better overall player, is bigger and more athletic, and has been a full time starter for 2 years, now what makes you think that he is going to get less then Jordan got? McGee will sign a contract for at least $10.5 million a year this next summer, saying he will get less then $8 is ludicrous and not based on reality.
Now, remind yourself of the FA suitors this past summer. NY, GSW, and HOU were all desperate for a big man. GSW... NY... desperate teams imo. Look with your eyes bro, its right in front of you! Deandre's 11M and Kwame's 8M were BOTH offers by GSW. The Nets, another desperate team drove up the price of all these players by offering to pay Nene tons of money. GSW and the Nets created a slippery slope. If Nene is worth 4/64 to the nets then every big's agent will use that to drive up the price. I see hibbert being this guy, but to a much lesser extent. Also, Kwame and Dal were overpaid for the right to be signed to a 1yr deal (t.o. for Damembert)
The possible destinations this summer are better for the Nuggets. I could see Portland, Houston, Dallas, Boston, Cleve, Sac, Indy and Miluakee trying to sign him. Portland wants a PG, so there goes their cap room. Indy has Hibbert, so no need for McGee. Sac has Cousins at C, although he has played PF before, so they are not too much of a threat. Cleveland has Varejao, but he is getting old. Boston is a threat. Dallas is a threat and so is Houston. I still dont see any of these three teams of the nuggets offering more than 8 million per year. Maybe Houston, but honestly Dalembert is a better defender than McGee and at 6.7M next year its a good contract. It depends on Dragic, so if we just sign McGee asap, rather than wait for an offer and decide to match, we will get a better deal in the 7-9M/yr range imo.
You can add the Nets to the list, if they miss out on Howard they have to rebuild, and what better way then a young big with a high ceiling, and a dumb ass doing the signing? Portland desperately needs a big to pair with aldridge, the Kings need a shotblocker to put next to cousins and they have the cap room to throw the max at a guy next year, Milwaukee needs a young big, the Rockets still need a center, Dallas wants a shotblocker, boston has plenty of money. Cleveland wants another big. it only takes one team to overpay a big, as shown by GS last year. Personally I would not want the guy back for free next year, but there are plenty of teams, and plenty of bad Gms always willing to overpay for bigs that put up stats.
dropBHOmbs wrote:How long do you think it takes Chandler to become a bad contract? $6 million per year for a guy putting up 10.7, 6, and 2 on horrible shooting percentages and that has had his numbers drop considerably since leaving the D'antoni system?
He wont be. He is a good utility player making barely more than Birdman, how can you not see this. You think that because he did not live up to expectations he is a bad contract? I dont see it. I see a good, not great, player making less than an old MLE contract like Harrington, Gooden etc.
40-50% more is not barely more then something, which is how much more chandler is making then Birdman, who's contract at the time made good sense as he was a very good 3rd big, making much less then the average 3rd big around the league. Maybe you missed it, but bigs make much more then SFs that is how things go in the NBA. the fact that you have to compare Chandler to players on the old MLE and a guy who has declined and had injury problems the last couple of years to just shows his lack of value, the owners went after the MLE because most of the signings under the old MLE were viewed as bad contracts. by the way the contract chandler signed is only about $2 million less overall then the MLE was in 2010. Given his horrible production since becoming a Nugget once again I would dump him now, before teams around the league forget about his NY production.
dropBHOmbs wrote:
trading a Small forward that has missed at least 20+ games in 3 of the last 4 years, and is not all that good for a 15 and 9.5 pf that has been playing out of position at center for the last few years is asinine? I know the Gallo hype is in full effect but reality is he is worth more in trade then he is to any actual team with him on their roster. the guy is slated to miss the rest of this season which puts him at half the season missed, and an average of 27 games missed per season, for that he gets $10.5 million a year. Add in the fact the guy only puts up 15 ppg (for a supposed good scorer) and is basically average at everything else, and where does he get such immense value? I would trade him for a very good big any day of the week, to hold onto him until he becomes a bad contract is what is asinine.
How convenient that you trash Gallo's health and ignore his TS% while you ignore Horford's health and highlight his TS%. Ironic, no?
Also, you must note that Gallinari would miss less games this season if the schedule was normal. There were more games per week if you catch my drift, so Gallo would miss more per week of injury this year. Gallo does the little things very well. His D, passing, stealing and ball security are all pretty good. He scores as efficiently as anyone and draws fouls on the other team. Yes, he should be taking more shots, but he is a team player first. Trading him would be dumb. He is already a top SF. Who would you rather have Gallo, Gay, Melo, Granger or Deng. Gallo is the youngest of that group and IMO his D, passing and IQ set him apart. He might be the third best SF in the game behind LBJ and KD.
I said he was a good shooter, but let's not act like he is going to be automatically health in a longer season, the season is what it is, making more excuses is just sad. as for gallo doing the little things well, I would hope a role player getting paid $10.5 million a season could do the little things pretty well, but what the hell, it ain't my money. Now Sf I would take over Gallo, I would easily take Melo, durant, and Lebron over Gallo, so there is your 3, add in Iguodala and Deng i would also take Pierce for this year and probably next, add in the injury problems and I would take Batum as well, so there are 7, and Gay is arguable as well. by the way can you tell me when the last time a team won a championship with a SF as their best player?
Honestly I don't know which is worse arguing that chandler is a great value despite his horrible play and lack of production in Denver, Faried is a good enough starter to force a 2 time all star out of his natural position, or trying to argue that Galinari is a top 3 sf. I am almost wondering how long you have been watching basketball.
dropBHOmbs wrote:Since you like to be a condescending douche, I will be too... "Anybody with real knowledge about basketball" would think that trading Gallinari for Horford is a bad trade. (btw, its OF not ABOUT). Anybody with real knowledge of basketball understands that is is **** reckless to cite the TS% of one player but not the other, and to simultaneously harp endlessly on one player's health even though the other one is injured for the whole god damn year!!!
LOL, funny when you start resort to name calling. and you want to talk about injuries still while Gallo is out nursing a broken finger on his off hand? by the way anybody correcting grammar should be careful of calling people douches. And just so you know admitting that one player is a good scorer while not digging their stats out is not being reckless, It is conceding that he is a good scorer and there is really nothing to argue about there.
Now you want to talk about injuries we can do that, especially given this situation. One player being out for the whole year having missed an average of 5.5 games a season every other of his 4 years, and the other player misses on average a 3rd of the season every year. One had a freak injury that should have no long term effects, the other has had numerous injuries (including a major back surgery), that he appears to nurse until he is 100%. both appear to be out for the year, the difference is one has a torn pectoral muscle and he may be back early from it(trying to make the playoffs). The other has missed almost a month already with a broken finger on his off hand (some players actually have played through similar injuries) and there are rumors he may miss the entire season. Now which one sounds like injuries are going to be a long term problem?