How should we rebuild?

[immortalone23]

We lost our best player, Coach of the Yr, and Exec of the Yr. Do you guys think Denver should bottom out or keep competing on the "treadmill of mediocrity?" A lot of us on RGM should be GMs rather than some of the real ones lol. Any suggestions? Even with trades?
Thanks,
Immortalone23
Sent from my XT897 using RealGM Forums mobile app

[The Rebel]

I do not think that Igoudala was the Nuggets best player last year, as has been discussed throughout multiple threads. It was also time that Karl moved on. The nuggets are doing the right thing in gathering assets, knowing they will take a step back with Gallo out this year, that way they have a decent draft pick next year, and they can make a trade for a better player should one become available in trade.

[ujirifan]

[/quote]I do not think that Igoudala was the Nuggets best player last year, as has been discussed throughout multiple threads. It was also time that Karl moved on. The nuggets are doing the right thing in gathering assets, knowing they will take a step back with Gallo out this year, that way they have a decent draft pick next year, and they can make a trade for a better player should one become available in trade.

You can say that Iggy was not the best Nuggets player last year until the sun rises in the west and you would still be showing your ignorance.

As far as "building assets" is concerned, WTF are you talking about??? Hickson is the only one of the four new guys who might be worth anything in a trade and MOST CERTAINLY NOT what Iggy would have been next year if they would have been able to re-sign him.

There is little, if any, doubt that Iggy/Brewer/Koufos will be more productive per minute played this year than Foye/Nate/Hick/Arthur, if for no other reason than Iggy will, BY FAR, be the most productive and valuable of the bunch.

And what they MIGHT get in the draft next year is a total crapshoot and potential trades next off-season even more so.

You, my friend, are living in the delusional world of fantasy leagues.

[The Rebel]

[/quote]I do not think that Igoudala was the Nuggets best player last year, as has been discussed throughout multiple threads. It was also time that Karl moved on. The nuggets are doing the right thing in gathering assets, knowing they will take a step back with Gallo out this year, that way they have a decent draft pick next year, and they can make a trade for a better player should one become available in trade.

You can say that Iggy was not the best Nuggets player last year until the sun rises in the west and you would still be showing your ignorance.

As far as "building assets" is concerned, WTF are you talking about??? Hickson is the only one of the four new guys who might be worth anything in a trade and MOST CERTAINLY NOT what Iggy would have been next year if they would have been able to re-sign him.

There is little, if any, doubt that Iggy/Brewer/Koufos will be more productive per minute played this year than Foye/Nate/Hick/Arthur, if for no other reason than Iggy will, BY FAR, be the most productive and valuable of the bunch.

And what they MIGHT get in the draft next year is a total crapshoot and potential trades next off-season even more so.

You, my friend, are living in the delusional world of fantasy leagues.

Oh look the guy that is not even a Nuggets fan and admits to not watching them is back to tell us all about the Nuggets. Man you sure know basketball considering you do not even have to watch a team.

[ujirifan]

Oh look the guy that is not even a Nuggets fan and admits to not watching them is back to tell us all about the Nuggets. Man you sure know basketball considering you do not even have to watch a team.


WOW!!!! It's sad enough that you continue to display your lack of bball knowledge with your never ending trashing of Iggy. Now you have to flat out lie.

Show me, rubble, where I "admitted to not watching" the Nuggets. IF I said anything here regarding my viewing habits it was that I watch almost all Nuggets games and a little more than half of Bulls games because I spent the first half of my life in Chicago and the second half here in Denver.

But I guess it is not surprising that you post B.S. like this post of yours since you are unable to really say anything worthwhile AND accurate regarding what the BoyWonder has actually done to a 57 win team.

[pickIBL]

If the argument is we need to rebuild because we lost Iggy... then that makes no sense... because acquiring Iggy didn't make us significantly better.

It didn't make sense to pay McGee, Mozgov, and Koufos.

In terms of future moves... based on the roster...

Faried, Randolph, Hickson, Arthur, and (rights to) Lauvergne... I think it is safe to say some sort of deal could happen.

[ujirifan]

If the argument is we need to rebuild because we lost Iggy... then that makes no sense... because acquiring Iggy didn't make us significantly better. It didn't make sense to pay McGee, Mozgov, and Koufos. In terms of future moves... based on the roster...Faried, Randolph, Hickson, Arthur, and (rights to) Lauvergne... I think it is safe to say some sort of deal could happen.

"Iggy didn't make us significantly better?"

Thanks for a really good laugh, bud!

[pickIBL]

"Iggy didn't make us significantly better?"

Thanks for a really good laugh, bud!

It's best not to get me started about his relationship with Mark Jackson, but if we just look at the results Iggy did not get us out of the first round.

It's also a bit hard to know what we got in Hamilton and Fournier (specifically Ham) and those are key reasons (along with not playing McGee) that George Karl is gone.

Look if Iggy drug the Nuggets into the 2nd round you'd have a point... but he didn't... so you don't.

What's impressive is what Denver was able to do post Carmelo Anthony trade. Iggy should have taken us to the next level in theory... and that didn't happen. This is why you don't see angry Nuggets fans pissed because Iggy turned down a bigger offer than he got from GS.

[SF_Warriors]

If you guys can pick up an all star big and keep gallo, chandler, and lawson, the team can contend.

[ujirifan]

It's best not to get me started about his relationship with Mark Jackson, but if we just look at the results Iggy did not get us out of the first round. It's also a bit hard to know what we got in Hamilton and Fournier (specifically Ham) and those are key reasons (along with not playing McGee) that George Karl is gone. Look if Iggy drug the Nuggets into the 2nd round you'd have a point... but he didn't... so you don't.

I understand that your mind is totally disconnected from the concept of logical thinking but I will make one more - albeit almost uncertainly futile - attempt of introducing it to you.

Iggy - YES, despite a fairly poor shooting/scoring regular season - was a MAJOR factor in "getting" the Nuggets the 3rd seed in the West and in winning a franchise record 57 games.

THEN, he easily had a top 10 performance among ALL players who participated in first round series, while the majority of his teammates had sub-par performances against G.S.

So explain, in what masquerades as logic in your mind - how not beating the Warriors should IN ANY WAY be laid at his feet?

[pickIBL]

So explain, in what masquerades as logic in your mind - how not beating the Warriors should IN ANY WAY be laid at his feet?

We've won a lot of regular season games for quite awhile now. Many other run and gun teams have... more balanced teams always in the championship.

Iggy has offended pretty much any old school basketball mind. I could never imagine Charles Barkley joining Phil Jackson and the bulls for prayer... no wait... lol meditation during the 93 finals. It's why Lebron broke the rules of greatness and competitiveness by creating a superteam. Bird was always wanting to beat Magic... not join him. The same can be said for Barkley, Jordan, and the stars of the past.

What Iggy did crossed a line and many have lost respect for him. Results matter. Nuggets fans are asking for and deserving a team that can get past the 1st round.

This isn't about assigning Iggy blame but realizing what you just said... he's not a good shooter... and his game is totally based on freak athleticism. So maybe having him on a fat contract past 30 isn't a good idea. That's the logic... not blame Iggy.

Top Nuggets brass (ownership) clearly blame George Karl for how he handled McGee, Mozgov, Fournier, and Hamilton.

Are you sure you just aren't butthurt because your guy left for Canada? The Nuggets draft record has been pretty good. It is very feasible to assume Fournier and Hamilton will step up.

[ujirifan]

Iggy has offended pretty much any old school basketball mind. I could never imagine Charles Barkley joining Phil Jackson and the bulls for prayer... no wait... lol meditation during the 93 finals. It's why Lebron broke the rules of greatness and competitiveness by creating a superteam. Bird was always wanting to beat Magic... not join him. The same can be said for Barkley, Jordan, and the stars of the past.What Iggy did crossed a line and many have lost respect for him. Results matter. Nuggets fans are asking for and deserving a team that can get past the 1st round.

Everything you wrote, but particularly this, is a total POS.

But I did not expect anything else, especially considering that you did not, IN ANY WAY, explain how the Nugz failure to beat G.S, could possibly have been due to any shortcoming on Iggy's part.

[pickIBL]

But I did not expect anything else, especially considering that you did not, IN ANY WAY, explain how the Nugz failure to beat G.S, could possibly have been due to any shortcoming on Iggy's part.

Calm down and go back and actually use some reading comprehension skills as I actually addressed your point directly. I am not blaming Iggy for the Nuggets loss in the 1st round. We got there without him by developing talent (Arron Afflalo).

You really need to use your higher order thinking skills like your role model now with the Raptors. The Bulls aren't willing to give Deng 12 or 14 million a year. They aren't blaming him for anything... that's just business (especially under this new CBA).

Having Iggy on a 52 million dollar deal on the wrong side of 30 could be bad for this team, and I don't mind one bit that he left as we have young talent to step up.

So again if you go to the Bulls forum the fans are against paying Deng 48 or 52 million... they don't blame Deng or dislike Deng. Many Denver fans felt the same about Iggy... don't want the FO spending 52 million on him.

[pickIBL]

Iggy has offended pretty much any old school basketball mind. I could never imagine Charles Barkley joining Phil Jackson and the bulls for prayer... no wait... lol meditation during the 93 finals. It's why Lebron broke the rules of greatness and competitiveness by creating a superteam. Bird was always wanting to beat Magic... not join him. The same can be said for Barkley, Jordan, and the stars of the past.What Iggy did crossed a line and many have lost respect for him. Results matter. Nuggets fans are asking for and deserving a team that can get past the 1st round.

Everything you wrote, but particularly this, is a total POS.

Fans of a certain age don't like the superteam. Barkley himself made the comment that he was trying to beat Jordan and never wanted to team up with him to win.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1KCi1OXSJA[/youtube]

After game 5 Mark Jackson said he had a source and that the Nuggets where "hit men" going are Curry. That source was Andre Iggy. In the words of former Nugget Carmelo Anthony... Stop Snitching!

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnaoVV46hk4[/youtube]

[pickaxe]

Best way to rebuild is move on and stop pining away for basketball talent that will no longer be gracing Denver by playing on our side.

Not having any power over it, it is actually quite refreshing to see what the remaining talent can put together. If it flops,
then we address the weak spots.

Sometimes you just have to let go to receive something even better.

[ujirifan]

Not having any power over it, it is actually quite refreshing to see what the remaining talent can put together. If it flops,then we address the weak spots.

I would agree with this view except for one major problem.

"If it flops", the "weak spot" that would need to be addressed is the nominal owner, JoshBoy, about whom, NOTHING can be done.

[ujirifan]

So again if you go to the Bulls forum the fans are against paying Deng 48 or 52 million... they don't blame Deng or dislike Deng. Many Denver fans felt the same about Iggy... don't want the FO spending 52 million on him.

I've watched Deng his entire career and have always been a fan. I also used to push back against Bulls fans who, a few years ago, wanted, somehow, to dump Deng and get Iguodala.

After watching Iggy last year, this is why I consider him more valuable than Deng. Most importantly, he has missed far fewer games in his career than Luol. 27 to 117 in the same 9 years they've been in the league, which bodes well to his holding up better over the next few years.

Secondly, Iggy CAN effectively guard 2s and 3s AND many 1s while Deng can effectively guard 3s and most 4s. That, to me, is a plus for Iggy.

Finally, Iggy's career stats show that he is just as good - or so-so - a scorer and slightly more efficient, as Deng but the big thing that surprisingly gets overlooked or discounted is his career 4.9 APG, which has been close to 6 APG over the last 4 years. That is a BIG positive.

Anyone who pretends that, if both teams have healthy seasons, the Warriors won't be even better than last year and the Nuggets worse, because of Iggy's move, is about as clueless as the Sixers management who engineered the brilliant deal that let Iggy go in order to have a year of nothing out of Bynum.

[pickIBL]

Anyone who pretends that, if both teams have healthy seasons, the Warriors won't be even better than last year and the Nuggets worse, because of Iggy's move

The only person on a Denver forum talking about Golden State is you. Especially with this CBA... moneyball... is even more relevant in basketball than it is in baseball. Iggy at the two spot was anything but ideal for Denver. Look at Denver's issues... poor jump shooting and poor free throw shooting. We essentially had a shooting guard that was a very below average shooter and could not make his foul shots.

Let's play money ball... we aren't buying players... we are buying points... we need to score more than the other team. A big part of basketball is putting the ball in the hole. Now Iggy can do that athletically. If we had a great shooter at the two and needed a 3... then he could make sense for Denver. But we have good SFs and need someone to step up at the 2 spot.

The Warriors can make their own calculations on buying points. Denver had major foul shooting and outside shooting woes that Iggy does not solve. We are very set at the SF position. Iggy couldn't get us out of the first round... he'll be 30 in a few months... he can't shoot and relies on athleticism to score.

Denver needs perimeter shooters and guys that can get to the line and make foul shoots. Exactly what Iggy doesn't do.

Now discussing what Luol Deng could do for Denver at the 4 spot... that's an interesting convo. He adds mid range shooting that stretches to the 3 point line. He'd be an excellent passer for a 4. He defends.

[ujirifan]

The only person on a Denver forum talking about Golden State is you. Especially with this CBA... moneyball... is even more relevant in basketball than it is in baseball. Iggy at the two spot was anything but ideal for Denver. Look at Denver's issues... poor jump shooting and poor free throw shooting. We essentially had a shooting guard that was a very below average shooter and could not make his foul shots. Let's play money ball... we aren't buying players... we are buying points... we need to score more than the other team. A big part of basketball is putting the ball in the hole. Now Iggy can do that athletically. If we had a great shooter at the two and needed a 3... then he could make sense for Denver. But we have good SFs and need someone to step up at the 2 spot. The Warriors can make their own calculations on buying points. Denver had major foul shooting and outside shooting woes that Iggy does not solve. We are very set at the SF position. Iggy couldn't get us out of the first round... he'll be 30 in a few months... he can't shoot and relies on athleticism to score. Denver needs perimeter shooters and guys that can get to the line and make foul shoots. Exactly what Iggy doesn't do.

Now discussing what Luol Deng could do for Denver at the 4 spot... that's an interesting convo. He adds mid range shooting that stretches to the 3 point line. He'd be an excellent passer for a 4. He defends.

I'm sorry but you don't know what you are talking about.

Denver needs more scoring????

What anyone who actually watched the Nuggets last year and knows even a little bit about the NBA understands is that the league leading scoring Nuggets need more D.

And what they got, OVERALL, with Arthur, Hickson, Foye and Nate replacing Iggy, Corey and KK is LESS DEFENSE.

Also, being a Bulls fan probably before you were even born, I can tell you that the idea of Deng as a starting PF is an incredibly dumb idea for any team and especially so for the Nugz.

[The Rebel]

The only person on a Denver forum talking about Golden State is you. Especially with this CBA... moneyball... is even more relevant in basketball than it is in baseball. Iggy at the two spot was anything but ideal for Denver. Look at Denver's issues... poor jump shooting and poor free throw shooting. We essentially had a shooting guard that was a very below average shooter and could not make his foul shots. Let's play money ball... we aren't buying players... we are buying points... we need to score more than the other team. A big part of basketball is putting the ball in the hole. Now Iggy can do that athletically. If we had a great shooter at the two and needed a 3... then he could make sense for Denver. But we have good SFs and need someone to step up at the 2 spot. The Warriors can make their own calculations on buying points. Denver had major foul shooting and outside shooting woes that Iggy does not solve. We are very set at the SF position. Iggy couldn't get us out of the first round... he'll be 30 in a few months... he can't shoot and relies on athleticism to score. Denver needs perimeter shooters and guys that can get to the line and make foul shoots. Exactly what Iggy doesn't do.

Now discussing what Luol Deng could do for Denver at the 4 spot... that's an interesting convo. He adds mid range shooting that stretches to the 3 point line. He'd be an excellent passer for a 4. He defends.

I'm sorry but you don't know what you are talking about.

Denver needs more scoring????

What anyone who actually watched the Nuggets last year and knows even a little bit about the NBA understands is that the league leading scoring Nuggets need more D.

And what they got, OVERALL, with Arthur, Hickson, Foye and Nate replacing Iggy, Corey and KK is LESS DEFENSE.

Also, being a Bulls fan probably before you were even born, I can tell you that the idea of Deng as a starting PF is an incredibly dumb idea for any team and especially so for the Nugz.

the nuggets also played at the 2nd fastest pace in the league, however if you want to discuss the nuggets being the top scoring team, do you also want to discuss them being the 23rd best team in points per game given up. Or do you realize that the pace they play at considerably helps them be the number 1 scoring team in the league, however when the game slows down they get destroyed in the half court game on offense.

Also maybe you do not know about Arthur, he is an elite pick and roll defender, which is the nuggets 2nd biggest issue on defense.

One last thing, Igoudala talks about how in the Nuggets system he was often asked to guard 2 players at one time, so please tell me again how the system the Nuggets ran on defense had no affect on their defense, and changing it to where each player is only asked to guard 1 player should improve the entire team's defense.