Brian Shaw has a big, big problem

[JerrySloan]

There are several teams that have been described as having really good depth going into this season: Nuggets, Clips, Spurs and Bulls to name some prominently mentioned. In actual fact, no team has the depth "problem" that the Nugz have.

The Spurs have 9 players that are counted upon to produce another title. The rest are role players whose "roles" will not require them to play many minutes at all in most meaningful games if the top 9 are healthy, even given Pops proclivity for resting his veteran players.

The Clips have, at most, 10 players, if you count Turkolu, who would expect to have a real expectation of getting significant PT.

The Bulls are a unique case in that like the the Nugz, they have two most important players, Rose and Noah, who they intend to restrict minutes for a while. Their depth, however, includes two rookies and a 2nd year player who come into the season with just hopes, not expectations of seeing significant PT.

The Nuggets, though, have 12 guys who could expect rotation minutes on at least 10 or so other NBA teams. This really is a problem that I feel to possibly be beyond Shaw's ability to come to terms with.

With Hickson inactive for the first 5 games along with the two rookies, 2 of the 12 other players have averaged at least 9.5 mpg with AA and Ty getting more than 30 mpg and the other 8 getting in the teens to twenties. When Hickson returns, the problem gets exacerbated.

Shaw has just been quoted as desiring to play all 3 centers - which includes rookie Nurkic - in 6 minute rotating increments. This is clearly ridiculous as it would result in 18 mpg for two centers and 12 for the third.

If this is truly intended to be a playoff contending team - as Kroenke and Connelly have stated - there is no way a 9, or 10 at most, man rotation cannot be settled on and the sooner the better.

While in the abstract choosing Gee over Quincy was the right move, in reality it creates a problem. If he is actually the best wing defender, Shaw almost has to give him rotation minutes, say 24 mpg, at SF or SG. If that happens, there are only 72 mpg left for Afflalo, Foye, Gallo and Chandler. Just how will that work, particularly once Gallo's minutes restrictions are lifted?

Then, with all the center PT taken up by actual centers, Hickson has to revert to playing his natural PF position. You know that the now highest paid player on the team, Faried is not going to be happy with less than 30+ mpg, which leaves about 16 minutes for Hickson AND Arthur.

IF - and, yes, it is a real if, the Nuggets were to get lucky and stay pretty much injury free, there is no logical way to handle this roster. Minutes distribution like that in the OKC loss is just not acceptable.

[skywalker33]

Well, Captain Obvious, we all know that. Do you have an answer to this dilemma ?? I see only shortening the rotation and/or a trade for consolidation and/or future assets.

Trade assets : Randy Foye, Darrell Arthur, Timofey Mozgov, JaVale McGee, Nate Robinson, Wilson Chandler and JJ Hickson

[JerrySloan]

No, SKYWALKER, I do not have an answer.

The only kind of trade that would alleviate the problem while hopefully really improving the team would be something like a 3 for 1 deal that brought back a true star.

At this time I don't know of any realistic deal like that. I don't even have an idea which position would benefit most from an upgrade.

Do YOU?

So, the point was, if nothing happens tradewise and the Nugz get - and stay - healthy, will Shaw cut the rotation down to 9 or even 10 or will he keep dicking around and not settling on at least 4 guys getting regular 30+ MPG?

[skywalker33]

Can't see a trade coming anytime soon, hope to see a reduced rotation.

[StunnaStan]

The kings are gonna smack Denver up again on Wednesday smfh

Sent from my SPH-L720 using RealGM Forums mobile app

[eathb_au]

The thing about Shaw is that he's a development coach, and that's really all he is.

Our bigs and some of our other players have made improvements and that's where it all ends. The offense is a disaster.

We might need to bring in an associate coach for this team, or you know give Melvin Hunt a try as interim.

[Powder Blue]

The thing about Shaw is that he's a development coach, and that's really all he is.

Our bigs and some of our other players have made improvements and that's where it all ends. The offense is a disaster.

We might need to bring in an associate coach for this team, or you know give Melvin Hunt a try as interim.

If Karl nor Shaw can get it done with the core.....the core needs to change. Shaw might have to go as well but don't trot out a new coach and the same core expecting a different result.

[eathb_au]

The thing about Shaw is that he's a development coach, and that's really all he is.

Our bigs and some of our other players have made improvements and that's where it all ends. The offense is a disaster.

We might need to bring in an associate coach for this team, or you know give Melvin Hunt a try as interim.

If Karl nor Shaw can get it done with the core.....the core needs to change. Shaw might have to go as well but don't trot out a new coach and the same core expecting a different result.

That's true, and looking at the contracts this is basically our team for 2 years. Don't know what we can do tbh.

[The Rebel]

The thing about Shaw is that he's a development coach, and that's really all he is.

Our bigs and some of our other players have made improvements and that's where it all ends. The offense is a disaster.

We might need to bring in an associate coach for this team, or you know give Melvin Hunt a try as interim.

If Karl nor Shaw can get it done with the core.....the core needs to change. Shaw might have to go as well but don't trot out a new coach and the same core expecting a different result.

Karl had this core for 3 years, in his final year they had their best regular season in Nuggets history, but they had injury problems heading into the playoffs. So I would not say that Karl did not get it done with this core, but instead that injuries derailed that team.

Shaw however has a big problem, as I am begining to believe that Shaw is just not cut out to be a head coach in this league. His offense is terrible, his use of talent is bad, and his in game coaching may be worse than the other 2.

It is easy to blame things on the core, saying they are too injury prone I would agree with, but saying there is not enough talent is something I disagree with. Fact is you have to have a decent coach to figure out what this team has, and I have not seen anything that tells me that Shaw is even an average head coach right now.

[JerrySloan]

"Karl had this core for 3 years, in his final year they had their best regular season in Nuggets history, but they had injury problems heading into the playoffs. So I would not say that Karl did not get it done with this core, but instead that injuries derailed that team.

Shaw however has a big problem, as I am begining to believe that Shaw is just not cut out to be a head coach in this league. His offense is terrible, his use of talent is bad, and his in game coaching may be worse than the other 2.

It is easy to blame things on the core, saying they are too injury prone I would agree with, but saying there is not enough talent is something I disagree with. Fact is you have to have a decent coach to figure out what this team has, and I have not seen anything that tells me that Shaw is even an average head coach right now."


I agree with most of the above but let's be clear on just what Karl did or did not have as a core for 3 years.

Although Afflalo did play previously for Karl's Nuggets, he did not play with anything like the core players of Karl's last 2 years. You then add Arthur, Hickson, Foye, Gee, Robinson, Nurkic, Harris and Green who were never on Karl's team.

Finally, Gallo, Chandler and Mosgov only played for Karl for 1 1/2 seasons and Chandler only managed 52 games in that time. The only core players that Karl had for his last 3 seasons in Denver were Lawson and Faried.

Oops, I forgot McGee who Karl had for 1 season.

[The Rebel]

"Karl had this core for 3 years, in his final year they had their best regular season in Nuggets history, but they had injury problems heading into the playoffs. So I would not say that Karl did not get it done with this core, but instead that injuries derailed that team.

Shaw however has a big problem, as I am begining to believe that Shaw is just not cut out to be a head coach in this league. His offense is terrible, his use of talent is bad, and his in game coaching may be worse than the other 2.

It is easy to blame things on the core, saying they are too injury prone I would agree with, but saying there is not enough talent is something I disagree with. Fact is you have to have a decent coach to figure out what this team has, and I have not seen anything that tells me that Shaw is even an average head coach right now."


I agree with most of the above but let's be clear on just what Karl did or did not have as a core for 3 years.

Although Afflalo did play previously for Karl's Nuggets, he did not play with anything like the core players of Karl's last 2 years. You then add Arthur, Hickson, Foye, Gee, Robinson, Nurkic, Harris and Green who were never on Karl's team.

Finally, Gallo, Chandler and Mosgov only played for Karl for 1 1/2 seasons and Chandler only managed 52 games in that time. The only core players that Karl had for his last 3 seasons in Denver were Lawson and Faried.

Oops, I forgot McGee who Karl had for 1 season.

Karl had Gallo, Chandler, and Mozgov for 2 1/2 years, and Afflalo was on that team for 1 1/2 of those years. Also Faried was only with the Nuggets for 2 years with Karl.

[skywalker33]

While I have been one who believes in giving opportunities to young coaches, Shaw is looking to be inexperienced along the lines of, gulp, McDaniels. He has some good asst coaching experience and has shown he has a knack for improving talent, but his in-game coaching is just bad. I do not see how he isn't trying to run teams out of the gym, utilizing the two strengths we have in the altitude and our depth.

[tstrick33]

It's only three games in the season, no need to press the panic button.

However, our shooting is embarrassing, they are missing wide open threes, no excuse for us to be shooting 30% from the field. I credit that to rust, not Shaw.

Ty needs to realize this is his team and be a leader. Our depth is our biggest crutch right now as well as our best asset.

The Nuggets should be one of the best rebounding teams in the NBA this year, no reason to ever have a 8 reb differential like we did last night.

[JerrySloan]

Karl had Gallo, Chandler, and Mozgov for 2 1/2 years, and Afflalo was on that team for 1 1/2 of those years. Also Faried was only with the Nuggets for 2 years with Karl.


The Melo trade happened February 2011. Gallo and Chandler were Nuggets for the second half of the 2011-2012 season and the 2012-2013 season under Karl. 2013-14 was Shaw.

[cold_cowboy]

Karl had Gallo, Chandler, and Mozgov for 2 1/2 years, and Afflalo was on that team for 1 1/2 of those years. Also Faried was only with the Nuggets for 2 years with Karl.


The Melo trade happened February 2011. Gallo and Chandler were Nuggets for the second half of the 2011-2012 season and the 2012-2013 season under Karl. 2013-14 was Shaw.

gallo was traded here with chandler in the 2010-2011 season, a little more than halfway on the season.

2011-2012 and 2012-2013 seasons were full seasons with karl.

[Powder Blue]

Maybe some of you long for the days where we'd win 50 then get smoked in round one but I don't.

Karl was fools gold, Denver had to make a change to try and get over the hump...but maybe they made the wrong change. I've seen these games, the players aren't making shots they normally make, not sure how you coach that.

If this continues I see no benefit in keeping a mediocre core together no matter who is coaching em.

[The Rebel]

Maybe some of you long for the days where we'd win 50 then get smoked in round one but I don't.

Karl was fools gold, Denver had to make a change to try and get over the hump...but maybe they made the wrong change. I've seen these games, the players aren't making shots they normally make, not sure how you coach that.

If this continues I see no benefit in keeping a mediocre core together no matter who is coaching em.

Nobody on this team has ever been a good mid range shooter, that is most of the shots they are missing, and that is something that is on the coach. Say what you will, but a good coach does what he can to get guys to cut down on the 18 foot jump shots, last year Shaw was encouraging guys to take them and I have yet to see anything saying he has changed his mind.

[darivo]

Spacing is main problem. Ty, gallo needs to clear the zone to cut and dribble to the BASKET.
With Faried's new role, this is impossible...

[Maf]

You know what? Gimme that fools gold! I am totaly fine with first round KO every year if watching Nuggets is actually FUN. And I don't have fun watching Nuggets under Shaw anymore. Defense is bad as always, offense is boring and all Nuggets fans do is looking for excuses- Oh last year we had many injuries. Really? Few years ago we had big man rotation of Martin, Camby and Nene!

I know you see me as teribly negative fan but I'm not satisfied with watching 12 average players roster under under-average coach.

[pickaxe]

Some problems are nice to have. Even if they are big.